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RE: A Republican encounters Canadian health care - 7/27/2012 6:38:56 AM

MrRodgers

Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Allo Tj:)
i have a question for ya... is it the government making it complicated,or the insurance, big pharma etc that is running the health system right now.??
Ive never had to deal "with the government" except with regards to a medication that wasnt covered on my drug plan, which happened to be offered thru another agency dealing with high cost meds. All other times Ive had to deal just with doctors and their office staff.

trying to compare Canadian govt to US govt is like comparing apples to oranges.. In my experience and observation, the US govt at all levels from the Feds down to City Hall makes everything they touch more complicated, time consuming and expensive.. I recall reading that Obamacare bill was 1,000 pages long.. and look where its gone, to going thru court challenges and now another election to see if it will even survive.. The HMOs, big pharma, etc will make US universal health care much more expensive than it needs to.. today before it even takes effect, it costs twice as much for the same medical surgery or treatment in the US than it does in Canada..

So, imo, the US govt makes it complicated and the HMOs, big pharma, etc make it expensive.. that makes it a double-whammy..

While 'complicated' is a fairly clever obfuscation...I am not buying it. The US medical industrial complex is not complicated or unusual in most respects except one...greed. Head & shoulders MRI in Japan $100...US $1500. That's GREED not tort expenses. (between 1 and 2% of ALL medical costs)

America is about money, it is now our corporate and entire business culture. No govt. financed market in the US will obtain anywhere near enough in taxes to pay the ever-increasing already obscene profits. Medicare in trouble because of greed (outright fraud) not illnesses.

Almost everything you read and hear in the US and about almost any market is about maximizing profits yet even when it comes to defense and in law or anything that govt. pays or helps pay.

As the modern Rome and the ultimate in greed, the US is destined to burn. It is just more slowly as the masses still have some...some borrowing power left. When that runs out we'll see 10's of millions of additional bankruptcies and more with about 1/2 or so... medical bankruptcies.

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RE: A Republican encounters Canadian health care - 7/27/2012 6:53:54 AM

DomYngBlk

Posts: 3316
Joined: 3/27/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mcbride

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk
My reference to your peace and prosperity dealt with Canada's proximity to the strongest country in the world. Scoff all you want at that but if Canada really had to raise a real army do you think the consequent raising of taxes or cutting of services would not lower the standard of living there?

My main contention is with another poster that wants to hate the place she lives while saying her former residence was much better. I am simply trying to help her make the right choice and head back to saskatoon.

Hey, I understand, and I have no trouble with you standing up for your country. so I won't dwell on the other points I made.

And no scoffing here, on sharing a border. We happen to live beside the biggest economy on the planet. But Canada already has a real army. The biggest in the world, per capita? No, and not the smallest, either. But do keep in mind only one country has ever attempted to invade, and they couldn't manage it...twice.

And hey, you should come and see Saskatoon. It's lovely. I even got married there, long ago, but I forgive them now. :)

All fine. My point was that you don't need an army. Or at least a large standing army. We didn't actually invade the Country of Canada since Canada wasn't a country then. No?

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RE: A Republican encounters Canadian health care - 7/27/2012 7:03:11 AM

Thaz

Posts: 617
Joined: 4/28/2012
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The widly demonised (By certain American AND British political camps at least) British National Health Service is acknowledged to have suffered from rampant Red Tape, bad management and worse planning not to mention several high profile billion pound projects going terribly terribly wrong.....it still results in a much better level of health care for considerably less cost per patient and very simmilar but slightly lower cost per taxpayer than the US Medicare system. And if someone could figure out how to run the damn thing properly we could get better value (ie improved care or reduced cost or some split of both). I've seen how the NHS is run and frankly the fact that the American system is MORE wastefull beggars the imagination.

http://liberalconspiracy.org/2009/08/14/uk-v-usa-the-basic-healthcare-facts/
http://www.guardian.co.uk/healthcare-network/2011/jun/07/healthcare-systems-australia-medicare-canada-saskatchewan

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Post #: 43

RE: A Republican encounters Canadian health care - 7/27/2012 7:23:53 AM

mcbride

Posts: 333
Joined: 1/14/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

All fine. My point was that you don't need an army. Or at least a large standing army. We didn't actually invade the Country of Canada since Canada wasn't a country then. No?

Well, not so much, no. You invaded Canada, which is what the region had been called for two centuries at that point, two of the political jurisdictions being Upper Canada and Lower Canada. Luckily it was defended by Brits, First Nations people, and...Canadians, a term that predates the first use of the term American (to describe folks in the 13 colonies) by close to two centuries. I could post about a hundred quotes from the US 'War Hawks' calling for an invasion of "Canada" just prior to 1812. (The first invasion was attempted by the Continental Army in 1775.)

Ironically, it was that second invasion attempt that brought english and french-speaking cultures together and ignited serious talk of nationhood, or Mitt Romney would be campaigning in, say, Saskatoon. :)

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Post #: 44

RE: A Republican encounters Canadian health care - 7/27/2012 10:01:23 PM

Marini

Posts: 3629
Joined: 2/14/2010
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quote:

While 'complicated' is a fairly clever obfuscation...I am not buying it. The US medical industrial complex is not complicated or unusual in most respects except one...greed. Head & shoulders MRI in Japan $100...US $1500. That's GREED not tort expenses. (between 1 and 2% of ALL medical costs)

Greed, Greed, Greed and the bottom line is the source of many of our woes these days, and it's not getting better.

America is about money, it is now our corporate and entire business culture. No govt. financed market in the US will obtain anywhere near enough in taxes to pay the ever-increasing already obscene profits. Medicare in trouble because of greed (outright fraud) not illnesses.

When will they ever learn? When will they everrrrrrrrrr learn?

Almost everything you read and hear in the US and about almost any market is about maximizing profits yet even when it comes to defense and in law or anything that govt. pays or helps pay.

As the modern Rome and the ultimate in greed, the US is destined to burn. It is just more slowly as the masses still have some...some borrowing power left. When that runs out we'll see 10's of millions of additional bankruptcies and more with about 1/2 or so... medical bankruptcies.

Great post, well written and to the point.
I think many "get what you have stated" deep down, I think it's just hard to accept.

Peace

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

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Post #: 45

RE: A Republican encounters Canadian health care - 7/27/2012 10:19:37 PM

HappySubMan

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Joined: 12/22/2005
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Basically I do not agree with the greed argument. Unlike any other national health care system the US system provides free health care for people over 65 and allow companies to pay for medical cost of their employees before taxes. In other words, there are little incentives to lower cost.

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Post #: 46