RE: Philly Restaurant Owner Asks Patrons to Order in English

RE: Philly Restaurant Owner Asks Patrons to Order in English (Full Version)

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[Poll]

Philly Restaurant Owner Asks Patrons to Order in English

Good for him! I think it is about time someone took a stand!

78% (85)

This is discrimination.

6% (7)

Spanish speaking people shouldn't be required to learn English.

0% (1)

I'll just eat at Taco Bell.

2% (3)

Who really gives a rats ass?

11% (12)

Total Votes : 108

(last vote on : 3/22/2008 6:38:33 PM)
(Poll will run till: -- )

Message

champagnewishes -> RE: Philly Restaurant Owner Asks Patrons to Order in English (6/9/2006 9:55:04 AM)
I would agree with the owners right 100%...simply for the fact that i was a small business owner myself and as such, he should have say over how he wants to run his business within the legal limits of the law. If patrons do not wish to order in English, don't eat there.

4u2spoil -> RE: Philly Restaurant Owner Asks Patrons to Order in English (6/9/2006 10:12:01 AM)
I think that will take you far in a lot of places, particularly where they do speak English. I'm moving to France, and a lot of people start laughing about how rude the people are. They're usually rude to Americans because instead of trying to learn a few phrases and make any kind of an effort, they shout in English and insult people for not speaking English in a country where it's not the primary language. I'll never forget talking to one person who thought the people were rude because they debated taking her US currency. If anything, I have a problem getting people to speak French with me. They hear me make an effort, hear my American accent and will start helping me in English right away. I think it's the same thing for immigrants. If they make an effort in English, I'm sure Spanish (or whatever the language is) speaking people would try to help them in their native language. I don't think it should be expected that people learn a second language just for them. quote: ORIGINAL: Gauge I have never been outside the USA (something that I hope to change one day) but if I do travel abroad, I will at least do one or two things before I go to another country. One, I will attempt to learn enough of the native language to at least ask for simple things. Or, I will go out and buy one of those little pocket translators and attempt, to the best of my ability, to speak from that. Of course I can show them the screen and they can see what it is that I want to say, but I am making an effort and I am not expecting to be catered to from someone else in their native country. That is my point. It is the effort made by an individual, not the responsibility of anyone else to make concessions just for them. I know Spanish is prominent. I know that it will likely be a second language here and I am OK with that. What I am not OK with is those people that think that because they do not want to make an effort, others must bow down and kiss their asses to make it easier for them.

andal -> RE: Philly Restaurant Owner Asks Patrons to Order in English (6/9/2006 10:16:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KatyLied That is my comfort level - ordering by numbers. I'm always afraid I'll misprounce the selections and end up ordering a steaming plate of dogshit! My experience overseas, in Mexico, Honduras, and Canada, and many ethnic restaurants (including one in Chinatown where the waiters didn't ask the women what they want, I had to order for my sister, and the men were served first) is that if you make a genuine effort, even if you slaughter the language, most people will be tolerant (though I've never been to France) and appreciate the effort, especially if you ask for the correct pronunciation. But learning "Please," "Thank you," "Can you help me," and "where is the bathroom" are a bare minimum. (Although in Honduras, they pointed me to some trees. Turns out the other side of the hill there was a flush toilet. But I didn't find out until after I came back) I've never seen dogshit on the menu, but a friend of mine told me not to order fresh chicken in Taiwan. Apparently "fresh" means "pull the feathers off and serve."

Lordandmaster -> RE: Philly Restaurant Owner Asks Patrons to Order in English (6/9/2006 10:25:55 AM)
I think I need to clear up a few misconceptions about this controversy. I live in Philadelphia, so I know what's going on. The truth is that there are not very many immigrants in the neighborhood we're talking about. Geno's customers are mostly white and black Philadelphians whose families have lived in the area for at least two generations. He's adopting the familiar "We're being besieged!" rhetoric, when the fact is most of his customers order cheese steaks in English every day and have done so for years. So what's the issue if he's not really being inundated by immigrants who don't know how to say "Cheese essteak, please?" This isn't about immigrants. This is all about his WHITE, ENGLISH-SPEAKING customers. White Philadelphians, especially in that neighborhood, are far, far to the right. Remember, this is a city that had an openly bigoted mayor (his name was Frank Rizzo) for years. This guy (who's still bitching about Mumia Abu-Jamal) wants everyone to get all riled up and say to themselves: "Damned right, those fucking immigrants should learn English like everyone else! We learned English! Who do they think they are! Let's go buy a cheesesteak from Geno's!" And you know what--it seems to be working. Look at this thread. Seems like no more than two of you have ever BEEN to Geno's. If I lived in HarryVanWinkle's laissez-faire Never-neverland, it wouldn't bother me so much that people seem to swallow bullshit hook line and sinker. But I don't--I live in the world like everyone else. And it dismays me the way people constantly swallow bullshit and end up being manipulated into supporting things they don't fully understand. Oh, and about the "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone" signs: if those store-owners really did refuse service to anyone, they'd be taken to court. And they'd lose. We don't live in the 1930's anymore.

MstrssSatin -> RE: Philly Restaurant Owner Asks Patrons to Order in English (6/9/2006 10:43:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster Geno's customers are mostly white and black Philadelphians whose families have lived in the area for at least two generations. This isn't about immigrants. This is all about his WHITE, ENGLISH-SPEAKING customers. This never fails, first you state that the resturant's customers are mostly second generation blacks and whites. Then in the next paragraph you attack whites only. So now that you have your race bashing in lets move on. I hate to break it to you but the language issue isn't a race issue, its a cultural issue. American culture, regardless of the race of the American in question versus the Latino culture. An American culture that expects, and rightly so, that persons who want to live here should learn the language and assimilate and a Latino culture who has members who do not want to learn the language or assimilate.

PhilaMale1958 -> RE: Philly Restaurant Owner Asks Patrons to Order in English (6/9/2006 10:45:36 AM)
Yeap, I'm on board with Loardand master. I understand and appreciate the concerns of others when they hear about an issue such as this one, but I don't think this one is worth it the attention at this point. Let this thread die.

Gauge -> RE: Philly Restaurant Owner Asks Patrons to Order in English (6/9/2006 10:48:23 AM)
quote: And you know what--it seems to be working. Look at this thread. Seems like no more than two of you have ever BEEN to Geno's. If I lived in HarryVanWinkle's laissez-faire Never-neverland, it wouldn't bother me so much that people seem to swallow bullshit hook line and sinker. But I don't--I live in the world like everyone else. And it dismays me the way people constantly swallow bullshit and end up being manipulated into supporting things they don't fully understand. OK... say you are correct (I am not disputing that you are or aren't) and that there is an underlying bigoted agenda here. While I do not agree with bigotry I do think that 'When in Rome' applies. Gino's is only saying that they think people should make an effort. That is what I get from the article. In posting this thread, my intent was to stir some conversation about what he is doing... not so much why he is doing it although that is a part of it. I don't swallow bullshit hook line and sinker and I do understand enough to formulate an opinion based on what he is doing. I can see what the issue is that he is making a statement about. This isn't the first time a business owner has made a political statement, nor will it be the last. What I find a bit strange is that the issue here really isn't political (although it is politically charged) but it is more the misstatement of immigrant groups saying that their current 'plight' is anything like those that came into the country in the 1920's. Clearly it isn't and that is not because America forced those people in the 20's to speak English, it is because the immigrants WANTED to adapt and conform and assimilate themselves into the culture. All I keep hearing from people is that we should make concessions to foreigners that make their home in America and that we should not expect anything from them because that would be racist and bigoted. I find that utter foolishness.

Gauge -> RE: Philly Restaurant Owner Asks Patrons to Order in English (6/9/2006 11:01:52 AM)
quote: Let this thread die. Why? Because you want it to? My purpose in posting this in the first place had and has the best of intentions. So when does this become a relevant issue? When does the cry of racism and bigotry stop when all anyone is asking is that they at least give a damn enough to try to fit in to the American way of life? My grandfather came into this country not speaking a word of English. He learned the language by listening to the radio and other things. He ended up learning not only English, but Spanish, Hungarian, German (his native tongue), French and I believe one or two more. His English was flawless. He graduated from a very good college and went on to law school... finishing second in his class. Now I ask you... why should my grandfather have had to do this? Shouldn't everyone have learned German so they could communicate with him? Shouldn't his college professors been required to give him special consideration and make lesson plans in German? If you answer yes to any of the above, that is pure rubbish and you know it. The issue presents itself every day... so when do we give it attention?

UtopianRanger -> RE: Philly Restaurant Owner Asks Patrons to Order in English (6/9/2006 11:02:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KatyLied I think there is a difference between being a tourist (visitor) in a country and residing (earning a wage, paying taxes, receiving the benefits of citizenship). I am firm in my belief that if you are going to reside here, you should make an effort to learn the language. Amen. We can make all sorts of excuses as to why some won't assimilate and learn our language / customs, but the bottom line is : Multiculturalism will never be successful in any county. Whenever you have ''many'' different types of people, speaking ''many'' different languages, all merging together as one, they can't, won't and don't communicate. And a lack of communication in the history of the world has always led to an onslaught of death and destruction. - R

andal -> RE: Philly Restaurant Owner Asks Patrons to Order in English (6/9/2006 11:22:45 AM)
quote: Gino's is only saying that they think people should make an effort. That is what I get from the article Me too. And I agree, people should make an effort. quote: ...... but it is more the misstatement of immigrant groups saying that their current 'plight' is anything like those that came into the country in the 1920's. Clearly it isn't and that is not because America forced those people in the 20's to speak English, it is because the immigrants WANTED to adapt and conform and assimilate themselves into the culture. All I keep hearing from people is that we should make concessions to foreigners that make their home in America and that we should not expect anything from them because that would be racist and bigoted. I find that utter foolishness. That's what I was trying to say. More of the entitlement mentality that is slowly destroying this country. The barbarians are at the gate, meanwhile the citizens vote for more bread and circuses. This is a good subject for debate. Let's have this discussion, and avoid the namecalling, PC nonsense, and pulling the race card. quote: let this thread die. Godwin's law http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law hasn't come into effect, so it's still kicking and screaming.

marieToo -> RE: Philly Restaurant Owner Asks Patrons to Order in English (6/9/2006 11:24:25 AM)
Fast Reply: Disclaimer: Everything I write is spoken as my opinion based on my own interpretations. I state nothing as facts. Bottom line: If the restaurant owners people didnt come here as immigrants at some point, he wouldnt even have a business in America, so shame on him. He is lucky to be making a living here. The only reason his native tongue is english is because HIS people came here and weathered the storm FOR him. Now he spits in the face of others who would do the same for THEIR people. Yeah, it s irritating when people live here for years and years and do not make an effort to learn english. But damn, isnt that what America is about? The freedom to chose? As far as the man's right to not serve english speaking people, its against the law. Its not his own home. If his restaurant is open to the public, Its a house of "public accomodations". You cant serve some people and kick others out because you dont approve of their language. Well, he can, but he better hope non of them have enough money to hire a civil rights atty.

marieToo -> RE: Philly Restaurant Owner Asks Patrons to Order in English (6/9/2006 11:35:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HarryVanWinkle quote: ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster I think any business dealing with the public has an obligation to carry out the customers' wishes to the best of their ability. I have to disagree with the obligation here. I think the owner of a business should have the right to run his business in any way he pleases. If the public doesn't like the way he runs his business, the public has the right to not patronize his business and thus put him out of business. Harry: I am pretty sure, though not positve that this in incorrect. I think when operating a business that is open to the public, there are certain regulations that they have to obide by.

Gauge -> RE: Philly Restaurant Owner Asks Patrons to Order in English (6/9/2006 11:38:06 AM)
quote: As far as the man's right to not serve english speaking people, its against the law. Its not his own home. If his restaurant is open to the public, Its a house of "public accomodations". You cant serve some people and kick others out because you dont approve of their language. Well, he can, but he better hope non of them have enough money to hire a civil rights atty. Where in the article did it say that he has refused to serve non-English speaking people? I must have missed that. Additionally, why are there different clubs across America that you have to be a member of to get in? They have rules for membership. Should anyone be allowed to be a member then if they have rules that state that you must be born in America (that is a for instance, not a factual item). In fact, if what you said would be true then the most racist and bigoted thing that America can do is state that the President must be born in America. An immigrant that is naturalized cannot be President. Go figure.

Aileen68 -> RE: Philly Restaurant Owner Asks Patrons to Order in English (6/9/2006 11:40:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: marieToo But damn, isnt that what America is about? The freedom to chose? People have every right to choose not to learn the language. What they don't have a right to is to expect this country to then bend over backwards and make things easy for them because they chose not to learn.

marieToo -> RE: Philly Restaurant Owner Asks Patrons to Order in English (6/9/2006 11:43:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Gauge quote: As far as the man's right to not serve english speaking people, its against the law. Its not his own home. If his restaurant is open to the public, Its a house of "public accomodations". You cant serve some people and kick others out because you dont approve of their language. Well, he can, but he better hope non of them have enough money to hire a civil rights atty. Where in the article did it say that he has refused to serve non-English speaking people? I must have missed that. Additionally, why are there different clubs across America that you have to be a member of to get in? They have rules for membership. Should anyone be allowed to be a member then if they have rules that state that you must be born in America (that is a for instance, not a factual item). In fact, if what you said would be true then the most racist and bigoted thing that America can do is state that the President must be born in America. An immigrant that is naturalized cannot be President. Go figure. My statment was in reponse to reading the posts and what seemed to be a debate of whether or not the man "had" to serve them. No where did I state as a fact that he had refuse. I was simply giving my opinion as a hypothetical, SHOULD he try to refuse someone. And yes, there are clubs that require memberships , that have rules etc. Unless I am mistaken, Genos is public restaurant (subject to regulations) . A private club...just that...private.

angelface183 -> RE: Philly Restaurant Owner Asks Patrons to Order in English (6/9/2006 11:43:26 AM)
<using fast reply> I did not vote because although I agree that the patrons should order in English I am not so vehement about it to declare that I am glad that he is "taking a stand". quote: From what I have read, immigrants back in the 1920's came to America legally, made a clear effort to adapt to American life and actually did everything they could to learn English. . I have worked in some aspect of customer service all of my life. I find it interesting when a customer will come into my establishment and be upset that there is no one here that speaks their language! Are businesses supposed to hire employees that speak multiple languages in order to appease those that don't bother to learn the primary language of the country they have chosen to live? Hell, when I went to Rome for a vacation years ago I made a point to learn a few phrases so as to better get around. I did not assume that people would be able to speak my language in their country. Luckily, I had taken French in high school and found that because both languages are latin based that I was able to figure a few things out on my own.

marieToo -> RE: Philly Restaurant Owner Asks Patrons to Order in English (6/9/2006 11:44:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Gauge quote: As far as the man's right to not serve english speaking people, its against the law. Its not his own home. If his restaurant is open to the public, Its a house of "public accomodations". You cant serve some people and kick others out because you dont approve of their language. Well, he can, but he better hope non of them have enough money to hire a civil rights atty. Where in the article did it say that he has refused to serve non-English speaking people? I must have missed that. Your sarcasm by the way is so not deserved, or necessary to discussing the topic

marieToo -> RE: Philly Restaurant Owner Asks Patrons to Order in English (6/9/2006 11:46:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aileen68 quote: ORIGINAL: marieToo But damn, isnt that what America is about? The freedom to chose? People have every right to choose not to learn the language. What they don't have a right to is to expect this country to then bend over backwards and make things easy for them because they chose not to learn. Serving someone in a restaurant, in my view, wouldnt exactly be bending over backwards.

Gauge -> RE: Philly Restaurant Owner Asks Patrons to Order in English (6/9/2006 11:51:32 AM)
quote: My statment was in reponse to reading the posts and what seemed to be a debate of whether or not the man "had" to serve them. No where did I state as a fact that he had refuse. I was simply giving my opinion as a hypothetical, SHOULD he try to refuse someone. Oh, I don't think he will refuse to serve someone. That is not his intent or statement. If you didn't read the article, I suggest you do... it truly is an interesting issue. quote: And yes, there are clubs that require memberships , that have rules etc. Unless I am mistaken, Genos is public restaurant (subject to regulations) . A private club...just that...private. Yeah... I kind of thought about this after I had written that. Not the best analogy.

marieToo -> RE: Philly Restaurant Owner Asks Patrons to Order in English (6/9/2006 11:52:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: angelface183 <using fast reply> Hell, when I went to Rome for a vacation years ago I made a point to learn a few phrases so as to better get around. I did not assume that people would be able to speak my language in their country. Luckily, I had taken French in high school and found that because both languages are latin based that I was able to figure a few things out on my own. Oh I agreet there should be some effort made. And English is one of the toughest languages to learn. I just think Americans in general are so tough on immigrants/foreigners about this issue. And America is a melting pot. Everything you buy now has directions in different languages etc.

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