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[Poll]

Philly Restaurant Owner Asks Patrons to Order in English


Good for him! I think it is about time someone took a stand!
  78% (85)
This is discrimination.
  6% (7)
Spanish speaking people shouldn't be required to learn English.
  0% (1)
I'll just eat at Taco Bell.
  2% (3)
Who really gives a rats ass?
  11% (12)


Total Votes : 108
(last vote on : 3/22/2008 6:38:33 PM)
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RE: Philly Restaurant Owner Asks Patrons to Order in En... - 6/11/2006 3:41:36 PM   
MrrPete


Posts: 614
Joined: 11/7/2005
Status: offline 		Have businesses taken down the sign:

"We reserve the righ to refuse service to anyone"

They still have that right as fr as I'm concerned BUT they also have the
right TO CATER to anyone they want.

I'm with Geno!

Do you think it's fair that an AMERICAN can't get a job in AMERICA
because they can't speak spanish? It's happening.

Mr. Pete

(in reply to Gauge)
Profile   Post #: 101
RE: Philly Restaurant Owner Asks Patrons to Order in En... - 6/11/2006 3:42:19 PM   
UtopianRanger


Posts: 3251
Status: offline
quote:


But Wal-Mart's here to stay, right?


I sure hope not. They're part of the leading edge in the ''Drive towards the bottom'' mentality.



 - R




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(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 102
RE: Philly Restaurant Owner Asks Patrons to Order in En... - 6/11/2006 3:49:21 PM   
indybbwsubbie


Posts: 51
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline 		If i travel to other countries - i would never have the audacity to expect that they would roll out the red carpet to make everything readily accessible and understandable in my language.  Why are we spending our hard earned American tax dollars to make everything so easy for spanish speaking people to be here?  i work hard, pay my bills and barely make ends meet.  Yet those who are illegal are being given handouts out the wazoo!  i stand in line at the grocery store using my hard earned money and pinching pennies - while the person in front of me is buying crap and using those food stamp cards.  And who pays for that?  My tax dollars........ What is wrong with this picture?  Come to my country - learn my language - become a legalized citizen - and get a job!

indy subbie  (proudly owned by Master Alan)

"to chain the body is to free the soul"

(in reply to UtopianRanger)
Profile   Post #: 103
RE: Philly Restaurant Owner Asks Patrons to Order in En... - 12/17/2007 9:17:41 AM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		Update: The case is currently being argued before the Philadelphia Commission on Human Relations.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071215/ap_on_re_us/english_only_cheesesteaks;_ylt=AuSswVw8QWLJlzrubjzcttJH2ocA

(in reply to indybbwsubbie)
Profile   Post #: 104
RE: Philly Restaurant Owner Asks Patrons to Order in En... - 12/17/2007 9:18:55 AM   
Aileen1968


Posts: 6062
Joined: 12/12/2007
From: I miss Shore, New Jersey
Status: offline 		Ha.  I saw this scroll by and wondered what idiot revived this thread.
Oops.  Hi LaM.

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(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 105
RE: Philly Restaurant Owner Asks Patrons to Order in En... - 12/17/2007 9:25:18 AM   
IrishMasochist


Posts: 1
Joined: 4/13/2006
Status: offline 		I can't beleive this is even being argued. if I own a restaurant and i speak english then it is common sense that if you want to come in and order food from me then you would do so in english or get stuck with whatever I happened to think you wanted. This is complete stupidity that just sums up this government right now. Its this simple, his rights are being stepped on because some lazy bastard wanted to come to this country, reap the rewards, have the way of life, but wouldn't put any effort into becoming a member of it. You don't get to have mexico here, you want to order everything in spanish then go back. My rant is done...just really tired of Americans being vicitimized in our own country.


(in reply to Aileen1968)
Profile   Post #: 106
RE: Philly Restaurant Owner Asks Patrons to Order in En... - 12/17/2007 12:14:51 PM   
rubberpet


Posts: 1743
Joined: 4/6/2006
From: The Land of Voodoo
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMasochist

I can't beleive this is even being argued. if I own a restaurant and i speak english then it is common sense that if you want to come in and order food from me then you would do so in english or get stuck with whatever I happened to think you wanted. This is complete stupidity that just sums up this government right now. Its this simple, his rights are being stepped on because some lazy bastard wanted to come to this country, reap the rewards, have the way of life, but wouldn't put any effort into becoming a member of it. You don't get to have mexico here, you want to order everything in spanish then go back. My rant is done...just really tired of Americans being vicitimized in our own country.




Oooh rah!!!  I'm with ya on this one, pal.  This is the United States of America, not the United States of Mexico!  Geez...these damn immigrants who come over here should adapt to this country's customs and language.  If I moved to France or Italy, I'd be insulting the country and the people if I didn't do my best to learn their language so I could better adapt.

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(in reply to IrishMasochist)
Profile   Post #: 107
RE: Philly Restaurant Owner Asks Patrons to Order in En... - 12/17/2007 1:14:28 PM   
RazorJAK


Posts: 821
Joined: 8/5/2006
From: Manistee
Status: offline 		The language issue is a difficult one for me. 

After all,  up until my grandfather's generation,  the children of my ancestors were rounded up and shipped off to schools where it was common practice for them to be BEATEN if they were caught speaking their native tongue.  Not for speaking it in class,  for speaking it EVER.  So you'll have to forgive me when I tell the SEOD crowd to kindly go fuck themselves.

There was a story in the news recently over some shitstains freaking out because the national anthem was being sung in spanish.  They wanted to make it a crime to sing the anthem in anything but english.  I make it a point to sing it in Anishinaabemowin now as often as I am able.  My ancestor's language is far older than english and was spoken here untold generations before the trash of europe drifted onto the shores of the land.

I feel making english the legally official language is a slippery slope towards outlawing other languages being spoken here in this country.  Think I'm overreacting?  Talk to the elders of any of the first nations and ask about the scars they still bear for their "crime" of speaking their native tongues.

With that in mind,  I feel that the shoppe owner has every right to insist his customers order in english.  How long he's able to keep that up will depend on who remains to patronize his business.  Some who speak english perfectly may decide not to shop there anymore.  Some who didn't shop there before may do so now simply because "We don't serve that kind here no more.".  People vote with their dollars more than their words.

I made a similar decision a few years back when a shoppe which served the BEST cuban food in Buffalo changed their menu.  The day that they started selling "Freedom fries" was the last time I spent money in the place.  People vote with their money.



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"Just me baby. Just me."
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(in reply to rubberpet)
Profile   Post #: 108
RE: Philly Restaurant Owner Asks Patrons to Order in En... - 12/17/2007 1:20:46 PM   
texancutie2


Posts: 40
Joined: 11/23/2007
Status: offline 		You are Anishinabeg?  Boozhoo to you!

God help my spelling. My Ojibwe is a little rusty.  Plus there are variations with the spelling of it as well.  You speak of your ancestors being rounded up and forced in mission schools.  My grandmother is still alive and was taken from her family at a young age and not allowed back to the reservation until she graduated.  Though she did marry someone from the reservation when she moved back.

Anyway, I am all for speaking in English around others I don't know.  Not everyone knows Ojibwe anyway...lol.  Nor do they know Ukrainian which is what my dad was.  My mom eventually left our reservation in northern Wisconsin and met my dad in Chicago.

(in reply to RazorJAK)
Profile   Post #: 109
RE: Philly Restaurant Owner Asks Patrons to Order in En... - 12/17/2007 1:42:05 PM   
SylvereApLeanan


Posts: 8275
Joined: 11/1/2007
From: Hell
Status: offline 		Fast reply:
 
Standard disclaimers of the IMO/YMMV variety apply.
 
I agree with the business owner.  It's his business, he can choose to insist that patrons order in English.  He can refuse to serve those who refuse to comply.  It happens all the time in other businesses and no one files a lawsuit.  The idea that someone is dragging the guy into a hearing over it is ridiculous.
 
I do think there is a mountain being made of a whole lot of nothing over this issue.  Is requiring customers to speak the common language (the US has no official language despite efforts to establish one) unreasonable or a path to cultural annihilation?  I doubt it.  No one has said customers who do not speak Enlish as their first language can't speak their native language while they eat or anywhere else.  Only that orders be placed in English.  From what I read when this story came up some months ago, employees at the restaurant in question will actually assist customers to order in English.  That doesn't sound particularly discrimanatory. 
 
When my family and I went to Germany, we made an effort to speak German.  When we went to Mexico, we made an effort to speak Spanish.  When I went to France, I made every effort to speak French.  It's just common sense to learn enough of the most common language in a country to be able to order in a restaurant. 

(in reply to texancutie2)
Profile   Post #: 110
RE: Philly Restaurant Owner Asks Patrons to Order in En... - 12/17/2007 1:42:33 PM   
RazorJAK


Posts: 821
Joined: 8/5/2006
From: Manistee
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: texancutie2
You are Anishinabeg?  Boozhoo to you!


Bozhoo,  Aaniish naa ezhiyaayin?

(*chuckles*  Let's see how long before we get people screaming about english only here.)

But yes,  I'm Odawa on my mother's side.  The sperm donor (he doesn't deserve to be called father) gave me german,  irish and scottish blood as well.

quote:

 
God help my spelling. My Ojibwe is a little rusty.  Plus there are variations with the spelling of it as well.  You speak of your ancestors being rounded up and forced in mission schools.  My grandmother is still alive and was taken from her family at a young age and not allowed back to the reservation until she graduated.  Though she did marry someone from the reservation when she moved back.


And there are jackasses around who try to deny such things ever happened.

I wouldn't worry about your spelling.  My romanization of korean is horrid too.  ;-)

quote:


Anyway, I am all for speaking in English around others I don't know.  Not everyone knows Ojibwe anyway...lol.  Nor do they know Ukrainian which is what my dad was.  My mom eventually left our reservation in northern Wisconsin and met my dad in Chicago.


*Nods* Completely understandable.  Honestly,  I'm still learning the tongue myself.  It saddens me that it very well may be a dead language (no surviving members who learned it as their first language ... much like Manx recently became) soon.




_____________________________

"Are all men from Michigan such loud-mouthed braggarts?"
"Just me baby. Just me."
~ Evil Dead - the musical ~

(in reply to texancutie2)
Profile   Post #: 111
RE: Philly Restaurant Owner Asks Patrons to Order in En... - 12/17/2007 1:47:37 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		Traditionally immigrants gather together and continue to speak the language of the old country in their neighborhood. The first generation born here learns fluent English and you see elementary school children translating for their parents.

My greatgrandparents came here, got off the boat in Baltimore MD, walked seven blocks until they saw a sign in Yiddish saying rooms for rent. They took the room, asked other Yiddish speaking immigrants where to find jobs, shop etc. Eventually they bought a house and rented rooms out to other Yiddish speakers. Their children and grandchildren were English speakers and went out into the wider world.

And here I am wishing my father had kept the house after their death, do you know what a house in Baltimore's Inner Harbor is worth these days?

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(in reply to RavenMuse)
Profile   Post #: 112
RE: Philly Restaurant Owner Asks Patrons to Order in En... - 12/17/2007 2:11:45 PM   
KyttynTheMynx


Posts: 4880
Joined: 5/10/2006
From: Moosecrotch, Va
Status: offline 		I have no issue with people immigrating here.  But what pisses me off is the fact that I am told by a potential employer that I am qualified for the job, but cant have it because I cant speak Spanish fluently.  Fuck that.  If I move to, or go visit Spain, or some other non-English speaking country, I am gonna do my best to take the essentials to translate, or get a translator, or I am staying my ass the fuck home.  I am sorry. Its just totally fucked that you have to speak X-number of languages to get a job these days, to deal with people who wanna live here, and dont wanna learn the language.  Its just a lil common courtsey to know about where youre going and atleast a small handful of helpful phrases, numbers, and stuff before you get there.


As for Geno's and as I read earlier, how they do try help the people learn a lil english, kudos to them!


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(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 113
RE: Philly Restaurant Owner Asks Patrons to Order in En... - 12/17/2007 2:40:00 PM   
topcat


Posts: 1675
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Tidewater, VA
Status: offline 		I am coming into it late, but I always found it amusing that my ex and her family spouted the speak english or go home nonsense.
 
Especailly as Nonni (grandmother) had been in the US since the '20s and doesn't speak a word of english.

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(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 114
RE: Philly Restaurant Owner Asks Patrons to Order in En... - 12/17/2007 4:16:00 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		Yanno ... I didn't post that update in order to re-open the debate.  I'm aware that the mods frown on that sort of thing.  I just thought people might be interested to know, a year and a half after all this impassioned debate, that the issue didn't die and might be resolved soon.  Of course, if people want to add their opinion now that we're doing this a second time around, they're free to do so.  BUT AT LEAST READ THE RELEVANT TEXT BEFORE COMMENTING.  It's not "someone" who is dragging him into a hearing.  It's the Commission on Human Relations that filed a complaint all on its own.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SylvereApLeanan

The idea that someone is dragging the guy into a hearing over it is ridiculous.

(in reply to SylvereApLeanan)
Profile   Post #: 115
RE: Philly Restaurant Owner Asks Patrons to Order in En... - 12/17/2007 7:34:26 PM   
SylvereApLeanan


Posts: 8275
Joined: 11/1/2007
From: Hell
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

BUT AT LEAST READ THE RELEVANT TEXT BEFORE COMMENTING.  It's not "someone" who is dragging him into a hearing.  It's the Commission on Human Relations that filed a complaint all on its own.


I'm sorry, you seem to be functioning under the mistaken impressions that I:
 
A. Didn't read who the party is that has filed the complaint and
B. Remotely care who is calling for the hearing and/or
C. That the information in any way changes my POV
 
Please allow me to correct your error.
 
Thank you.

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 116
RE: Philly Restaurant Owner Asks Patrons to Order in En... - 12/17/2007 7:53:56 PM   
EvilGenie


Posts: 1323
Joined: 9/10/2007
From: Morocco and Maine occasionally
Status: offline 		~FR~

I live in Morocco and when I first moved there I knew roughly 6 Darija (Moroccan Arabic/Arabic Classic) words and knew my French; the 2 official languages of the country. Not all can even speak French due to the school drop out rate. A few could say a few words in English to me and understand what I was saying. However, I had to learn Arabic and damned fast if I ever hoped to survive there. So I did. I have lived in 4 countries on 3 continents and I do not expect them to have to be able to speak my way. Sign gestures and the like assist in the beginning. It is my belief that one must adjust their speaking, if not themselves, to the given place, not the place surrendering to one. Unless someone is on holiday in a country that is not of their native tongue and even then they can usually find someone to help. I see no problem in pointing to something on a written board or a particular food and being able to receive it though.

mine, who is my husband, and I will be moving to Spain for 2 years and I am still working on my Arabic as the community and family in Spain speak it along with tamazight (the language of the section of the Atlas Mountains where the tarafit live and come from. The indiginous Moroccans who the West likes to call the Berbers), and brushing up my Spanish. That one comes easily as there is so much of the French language under my belt. I am fairly fluent in 2 andworking on the third. You will find though that most of the world is out there studying and trying to learn English. French was the number one language of the world until it was replaced with English only a few years ago. English is even being taught in Moroccan schools now along with the Arabic and French.

Best,

EG

(in reply to SylvereApLeanan)
Profile   Post #: 117
RE: Philly Restaurant Owner Asks Patrons to Order in En... - 12/17/2007 7:59:51 PM   
EvilGenie


Posts: 1323
Joined: 9/10/2007
From: Morocco and Maine occasionally
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KyttynTheMynx

I have no issue with people immigrating here.  But what pisses me off is the fact that I am told by a potential employer that I am qualified for the job, but cant have it because I cant speak Spanish fluently.  Fuck that.  If I move to, or go visit Spain, or some other non-English speaking country, I am gonna do my best to take the essentials to translate, or get a translator, or I am staying my ass the fuck home.  I am sorry. Its just totally fucked that you have to speak X-number of languages to get a job these days, to deal with people who wanna live here, and dont wanna learn the language.  Its just a lil common courtsey to know about where youre going and atleast a small handful of helpful phrases, numbers, and stuff before you get there.


As for Geno's and as I read earlier, how they do try help the people learn a lil english, kudos to them!



They are referring to the Mexican form of Spanish not the Spanish version as in European Spanish. The difference is wide just as Parisian French and Canadian French is. Not that this changes it though and I have to agree. I am getting tired of having to press 1 for English on company phone menus. I feel that English should be the default language here, though the US has never declared an official language, and other options given as well, besides pressing 1 for the US default language.

Just MHO

(in reply to KyttynTheMynx)
Profile   Post #: 118
RE: Philly Restaurant Owner Asks Patrons to Order in En... - 12/17/2007 9:11:56 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		The story really brings out the best in people, doesn't it.

Anyway, guys, carry on.  I said all I had to say about this the first time around.  Go on and insult each other.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SylvereApLeanan

I'm sorry, you seem to be functioning under the mistaken impressions that I:
 
A. Didn't read who the party is that has filed the complaint and
B. Remotely care who is calling for the hearing and/or
C. That the information in any way changes my POV
 
Please allow me to correct your error.
 
Thank you.

(in reply to SylvereApLeanan)
Profile   Post #: 119
RE: Philly Restaurant Owner Asks Patrons to Order in En... - 12/17/2007 9:50:12 PM   
marieToo


Posts: 3595
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

The story really brings out the best in people, doesn't it.

Anyway, guys, carry on.  I said all I had to say about this the first time around.  Go on and insult each other.



Let's just hope Rage doesn't come back to it.

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(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 120
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