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RE: Colorado and insurance - 7/26/2012 6:01:10 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama
quote:

The only problem I ever see with someone using food stamps is when they get into their pimped out Explorer with spinner rims parked in the handicapped spot.

And how often does this happen? My brother receives food stamps, SSDI, and subsidized housing. There's no money left over for rims, let alone a vehicle to put them on.


And, then, kalikshama, if he can't provide for his own needs, then, he is one of those "truly needy" that we need to support. It's the people that aren't working when they have no actual disability. Those are the people who are not "truly needy" and those are the people who need to be weeded out.

How about the people who go and buy groceries with food stamps and then pull out a wad of cash to buy smokes, liquor, beer, etc.? When people choose to spend their money on unnecessary products, forcing them to use food stamps, that's an abuse of the system, too.



_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to kalikshama)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Colorado and insurance - 7/26/2012 6:10:59 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
Children's Hospital Colorado announced it would use donations and its charity care fund to cover the medical expenses of the uninsured. For those who do have insurance, the hospital says it will waive all co-pays for shooting victims it is treating.
Do we, as a country, really have any choice but to go to a national health care?

In short, the answer is.... yes. Yes, we do have more choices than to go to national health care.

People will donate after a big tragedy that's all over the news. What about the "less newsworthy" everyday reality of being under- or unemployed and under- or uninsured?


You'll answer "no" to this question, but it's not one that I'm actually looking to get an answer to. Just ponder on the question for a while. Chew on it.

Did it ever occur to you that one of the reasons charity donations only happen for the "big story" items is because government comes in and takes care of it? When Big Brother is taxing people to provide a service, the people will be less likely to donate to support that service. "Big Brother is already taking care of it."

_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to kalikshama)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Colorado and insurance - 7/26/2012 10:25:20 PM   
SternSkipper


Posts: 7546
Joined: 3/7/2004
Status: offline
quote:

How about the people who go and buy groceries with food stamps and then pull out a wad of cash to buy smokes, liquor, beer, etc.?


How about the ones who DON'T. There are many more people in our society at this time that NEED the assistance. I volunteer, as I have pointed out before, at one of the best supported "food pantries" in coastal New England. The director has estimated that if food stamps weren't in the equation to the degree they are, there would be absolutely no way we could keep up with the ACTUAL needs of the community. And yeah, I see people that abuse the system in more ways than even you've put forth. But if I see 5 of them on any given day, in contrast to all the elderly people I see (more half our clients)... the rest are a mix of young and middle aged clients MOSTLY with young children.
Your inference about a rather small percentage is insulting to the people who are "truly needy" as you like to put it. Or is there a side-payment of their dignity you require them to absorb? A guilt by association tax maybe?
In my moderate sized community of FISHING families. I would hazard a guess that most of them have either worked as hard or harder than you in their careers, paid their taxes, and raised pretty decent families. Two Bushes later and they are living well below the actual cost of living here.
Is there a study somewhere that renders this abuse that bothers you is occurring in any large percentage, what that percentage actually is, and where geographically it's occurring?
I mean otherwise all I have to go on is the OCCASIONAL newspaper story about someone buying lobsters and reselling them somewhere in Michigan or some place like that, and your continual references in posts to these abuses without any actual substantiation.
Not a dig Scuri... just pointing out what's presented here vs. what I see a couple times per week.


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Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Colorado and insurance - 7/26/2012 10:34:52 PM   
SternSkipper


Posts: 7546
Joined: 3/7/2004
Status: offline
quote:


how much did you donate?


In my case it was $150 to the Colorado Victim's Assistance fund. I spoke to a state police office outside the area on sunday and that was the trooper's first recomendation.

CNN has a list though:
http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/25/us/iyw-how-to-help-aurora/index.html

Who wants to go matchies?


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Looking forward to The Dead Singing The National Anthem At The World Series.




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Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Colorado and insurance - 7/26/2012 11:15:33 PM   
Aswad


Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

So who pays these bills?


Decent human beings.

Remember the bailouts a while back?

That's how we handle humanitarian stuff here: make it happen, send us the invoice. One question nobody asked when the attacks happened up here last year, was what it would cost. It just wasn't relevant. The job needed to be done. We, as a people, needed the job done. So we, as a people, said we'll foot that bill. Politics never entered into that side of things, just basic human decency. Some kinds of shit, you can't prepare for. And if society can't step up to the plate when it hits the fan, there's no reason to bother with a society in the first place, cause you've just lost before you even start.

A society, any society, is about neighbours having each others' backs when the chips are down.

If you ain't got that, might as well pack it up and call it a day.

Any of these places take PayPal?

IWYW,
— Aswad.



_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Colorado and insurance - 7/27/2012 4:14:52 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		For Pay Pal links to donations

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Aswad)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Colorado and insurance - 7/27/2012 5:35:13 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SternSkipper
quote:

How about the people who go and buy groceries with food stamps and then pull out a wad of cash to buy smokes, liquor, beer, etc.?

How about the ones who DON'T. There are many more people in our society at this time that NEED the assistance. I volunteer, as I have pointed out before, at one of the best supported "food pantries" in coastal New England. The director has estimated that if food stamps weren't in the equation to the degree they are, there would be absolutely no way we could keep up with the ACTUAL needs of the community. And yeah, I see people that abuse the system in more ways than even you've put forth. But if I see 5 of them on any given day, in contrast to all the elderly people I see (more half our clients)... the rest are a mix of young and middle aged clients MOSTLY with young children.
Your inference about a rather small percentage is insulting to the people who are "truly needy" as you like to put it. Or is there a side-payment of their dignity you require them to absorb? A guilt by association tax maybe?
In my moderate sized community of FISHING families. I would hazard a guess that most of them have either worked as hard or harder than you in their careers, paid their taxes, and raised pretty decent families. Two Bushes later and they are living well below the actual cost of living here.
Is there a study somewhere that renders this abuse that bothers you is occurring in any large percentage, what that percentage actually is, and where geographically it's occurring?
I mean otherwise all I have to go on is the OCCASIONAL newspaper story about someone buying lobsters and reselling them somewhere in Michigan or some place like that, and your continual references in posts to these abuses without any actual substantiation.
Not a dig Scuri... just pointing out what's presented here vs. what I see a couple times per week.


Apparently, you don't read everything I write. I take no issue with people who legitimately need assistance getting the assistance they need. It's the ones who don't "truly need" that I take offense to. Erieangel asked me to define, more or less, what I meant by "the truly needy" in my signature. So, I did. I gave a couple examples of those who are not "truly needy" and are getting the benefits others truly need.

Regardless of how the rhetoric spins, Conservatives aren't horrible people who are looking to profit at the misfortune of others while laughing at them on their way to the bank. Conservatives are charitable, too. Conservatives do it every day, too. I get the feeling that there are many on this board who think that Conservatives (especially the Republicans) take glee in someone losing their shirt because of some accident or because they got some disease that ruined their ability to make any money. We don't. We want everyone to have every need met. Liberals and Conservatives truly only disagree on the method of transportation to get to the same ends.

_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to SternSkipper)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Colorado and insurance - 7/27/2012 7:08:43 AM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
We want everyone to have every need met.

But you refuse to pay for it, so that's all just talk.

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Colorado and insurance - 7/27/2012 7:33:58 AM   
kalikshama


Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
Status: offline
quote:

It's the ones who don't "truly need" that I take offense to. Erieangel asked me to define, more or less, what I meant by "the truly needy" in my signature. So, I did. I gave a couple examples of those who are not "truly needy" and are getting the benefits others truly need.


But what is the percentage of cheats? If they are as rare as voter fraud, let's focus on what really impacts economies - $21 trillion hidden in offshore accounts and Corporate Welfare.



_____________________________

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(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Colorado and insurance - 7/27/2012 12:51:09 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

And, then, kalikshama, if he can't provide for his own needs, then, he is one of those "truly needy" that we need to support. It's the people that aren't working when they have no actual disability. Those are the people who are not "truly needy" and those are the people who need to be weeded out.


Define a "true disability".

Is it medical? Because many states do not cover single people with no children under any program other than total disability.

I prefer a hand up rather than a hand out.

I would prefer people stand by their responsibilities... and that includes those with children.. instead of running out and leaving a woman.. or a man.. with a few kids, barely passable education, and a minimum wage job to fend for themselves.

I would prefer that people get educated beyond just high school... trade or college would enable many to simply rise above that minimum wage level to earn a living in keeping with self support, instead of survival.

You keep insisting no one listens.... but we do.

You just keep repeating the same lines and do not listen yourself.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Colorado and insurance - 7/27/2012 12:55:17 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		15% tax on that would have been....

3,150,000,000,000

a Nice addition to the coffers.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to kalikshama)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Colorado and insurance - 7/27/2012 1:43:00 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
Define a "true disability".
Is it medical? Because many states do not cover single people with no children under any program other than total disability.


A true disability is physical or mental.

quote:


I prefer a hand up rather than a hand out.


The sky is falling! The sky is falling!! Tazzy and I agree on something!!!

quote:


I would prefer people stand by their responsibilities... and that includes those with children.. instead of running out and leaving a woman.. or a man.. with a few kids, barely passable education, and a minimum wage job to fend for themselves.


And again...

quote:


I would prefer that people get educated beyond just high school... trade or college would enable many to simply rise above that minimum wage level to earn a living in keeping with self support, instead of survival.


OMG... is this really you, tazzy?

quote:


You keep insisting no one listens.... but we do.
You just keep repeating the same lines and do not listen yourself.


See now? We both want pretty much the exact same ends. Yes. Yes, we do. We just don't agree on how to get there, which I've been saying for a long time, and for a short time on CollarMe. Crazy innit?

_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Colorado and insurance - 7/27/2012 1:58:16 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		And yet you still offer up no solutions.

How about a system where education is offered on a sliding scale for families, without the families having to bankrupt themselves to educate their young?

Maybe a system where income is flat taxed so no one can find ways to shelter it to avoid paying their share?

Maybe a way to help those who cannot help themselves, so that charities can help those who need their help in times of trouble, yet the families dont exactly meet the dire eligibility levels?

Maybe as a society we take a look at the real problems, and realize that many of these people are in the conditions they are in through little to no fault of their own and start owning up to the responsibilities?

Manage education and health care, and half the worries of most families are gone. Half! thats a whole lot.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Colorado and insurance - 7/27/2012 2:08:57 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama
quote:

It's the ones who don't "truly need" that I take offense to. Erieangel asked me to define, more or less, what I meant by "the truly needy" in my signature. So, I did. I gave a couple examples of those who are not "truly needy" and are getting the benefits others truly need.

But what is the percentage of cheats? If they are as rare as voter fraud, let's focus on what really impacts economies -


Really?!? So, forget about people gaming the welfare system? Doesn't that just mean less for those who truly need it?

And, where did that off-shore money come from? Was it profits made outside the US? Why isn't it in the US? For what reason is it being kept out of the country?

And, here is a potential lesson in economics....

    quote:

    A Sunshine State residence may offer a more favorable tax environment for the investor, who counts Sears, Kmart, AutoZone and Auto Nation among his holdings.


Now, there's no guarantee that Lampert moved from CT to FLA (thus the potential lesson), but there is a definite tax advantage there.

Can you even fathom a company moving their operations out of the US because of tax structures? GE didn't turn a profit on US operations, but did on their foreign operations. They paid taxes on those profits to the countries in which the profits were made. If they had to shield their foreign profits from the US IRS, can you fathom them moving their HQ out? I can. I'm not even sure it would be all that difficult, either. They could keep their current Corporate HQ and transform it into their US Operations HQ, with their Corporate HQ moving to a country with a more favorable tax situation. Then what would you do? Complain about what? That they left? That would be like you kicking someone in the balls when they come see you and then get pissed when they stop coming to see you. It happens. It will continue to happen.

I'm not happy with out-sourcing, but I'm open to the true reasons behind the moves. For people who can't see past the one "little" change to notice how those ripples grow as they go out, taxes are one of those initial "little" changes. Laws will be passed to prevent out-sourcing, and then, the companies will just move out if it's financially smarter and feasible.

You wanna talk about subsidies for companies that out-source? Ever heard of GM or Chrysler? GE Financial got stimulus money, too. And, what happened? They spent it over seas. Federally subsidized wind mill farms installed Chinese wind mills. Xunlight spent $2M of their $34.5M Federal tax credit to open a plant in China, that doubled their employee count.

At what point do you see government no longer as the great savior of all, and for the dirty organization it truly is (and has been for over a century)?

_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to kalikshama)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Colorado and insurance - 7/27/2012 2:35:35 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

Really?!? So, forget about people gaming the welfare system? Doesn't that just mean less for those who truly need it?


McKEESPORT, Pa. — Target 11 investigator Rick Earle confronted a local woman accused of cheating the welfare system back in April. He caught up with the woman and her husband Monday as they faced a judge.
Earle said the couple still claims they did nothing wrong, but the judge disagreed. The judge ruled there was enough evidence to send the case to trial.

John and Angela Kilbert, of McKeesport, were ordered to stand trial for allegedly bilking the welfare system out of $123,000.

Investigators said the Kilberts falsely claimed they were separated and then lied on welfare documents to receive food stamps, along with utility and medical benefits for six years.

John Kilbert’s attorney, David Shragger, said his client did nothing wrong.
“Of course we are pleading not guilty because it’s our position that he had nothing to do with this case. He had no knowledge of it and he’s anxious to assert his innocence,” Shragger said.

The Kilberts face a formal arraignment in August and then the case will be scheduled for trial.

http://www.wpxi.com/news/news/local/target-11-revisits-local-couple-accused-cheating-w/nPdzB/

Its not being ignored. And kudos to this judge.

Now, since I have offered up the welfare queen... why dont you offer up the corporate fraudsters and lets compare numbers.



_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Colorado and insurance - 7/27/2012 2:53:44 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		I'm not sure universal healthcare will ever fly in an increasingly conservative America...but... I cannot understand why people are so dead set against Obamacare without giving it a chance to see how it works. THEN... if it proves too expensive or ineffectual make changes or throw it out and start over.

All agree it seems...liberal...independent...and conservative that the existing system is not working so damn lets give this a try...better than doing nothing I say.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Colorado and insurance - 7/28/2012 12:43:20 AM   
Aswad


Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

For Pay Pal links to donations


Thank you, tazzy.

I'll see what I can spare on payday.

Health,
— Aswad.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Colorado and insurance - 7/28/2012 1:05:54 AM   
Thaz


Posts: 617
Joined: 4/28/2012
Status: offline 		Radical reform of the US healthcare system is very much needed given you're already paying above whats needed for a universal system. How you do so given your politics and greed in the current system is beyond me

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Colorado and insurance - 7/28/2012 1:37:09 AM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
A true disability is physical or mental.

Me and about fifteen other - intelligent, well educated - people had a job provided by the social security service who paid our wages. I can tell you that without exception, me included, they had some chronic disease or mental problems or both; and I am rather convinced that by extension this is valid for most people on social security.

One was an older man who was or had been an alcoholic, another one was a young man whose brain apparently had turned to mush from listening to loud music (he was fired rather quickly). Many of them in my opinion would have functioned well in a more taxing and better paying job.

I do think that countries ought to finance far more biological research into the causes and mechanisms of these diseases than they do.


(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Colorado and insurance - 7/28/2012 9:22:32 AM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline 		about needing assistance, Section 8 specifically- I have read this recently-

"Nearly two-thirds of Section 8 voucher holders are disabled or elderly"


_____________________________

As Anderson Cooper said “If he (Trump) took a dump on his desk, you would defend it”

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Profile   Post #: 40
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