quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

how very convenient to dismiss my other points.

That you are worried about the time and expense of cultural evolution playing itself out, even if if our side is winning? Sorry, Lucy, I put free speech above your desire that the fundies simply be crushed into submission.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

The world is full of blowhard asshole bosses, Winterapple. It's also full of people who make excuses, and try to feel better about themselves by diminishing the achievements of others. The President is making his appeal from the latter camp (though he may have some strong personal connection to the first, as well). His "you didn't build that," attack on success illustrates his general outlook on individualism vs. collectivism. The campaign is right to be rattled, when he goes and tells the truth, the way he did.

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

It is not at all clear that any side is winning.  So, with prima facie false premises the conclusion is but false.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

now where did I say anything like being free speech crushed into submission, please dont put words into my mouth, it wont wash.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

had nothing to do with free speech , stop trying to make it about such, it was about the waste of effort, time and money on something that YOU said was unconstitutional, not I....

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Strange....he doesn`t seem "rattled"...[:D]

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

There are a lot of wealthy, successful Americans who agree with me — because they want to give something back. They know they didn’t — look, if you’ve been successful, you didn’t get there on your own. You didn’t get there on your own. I’m always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something — there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there. (Applause.) If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business — you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet. The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together. There are some things, just like fighting fires, we don’t do on our own. I mean, imagine if everybody had their own fire service. That would be a hard way to organize fighting fires. . .

Build what? Read the line before it for the answer. The gaffe was his use of pronouns.... nothing more... the rest he was spot on about.

Additional bold added to the President's quote.

No, Tazzy. His phrasing was awkward (he's not nearly the orator extemporanously, that he is with a nice comforting script on the screen), but the meaning was clear. You didn't build that.

Those businesses that fail had those same roads and bridges, and internet. Some of the people who are happy to just punch a clock, or reduce their best hope for the future to the $829 a month + food stamps SSI route, might have had the very same teachers Bill Gates did.

It's what he believes, Tazzy.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

So quoting the President is a "lie," Ron? I'm as big a fan as anyone of the President's speaking abilities with a script, but just because he gets his tang tungled without one doesn't alter the worldview behind his words.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

On Wednesday's edition of "The Daily Show," Jon Stewart directed a pointed question at presidential candidate Mitt Romney: "You really want to hang your entire campaign on a willful, out-of-context misunderstanding?"

quote:

The media's post-modern deconstruction of Obama's "if you have a business--you didn't build that" comment is my personal high-point of this election year. Not since Clinton's "it depends on what the definition of is, is" have we witnessed the media contort itself to such absurd lengths to explain away what is obvious to everyone. Even allowing the media's argument that Obama's "that" meant "roads and bridges" and not "business" the entire speech betrays Obama deep disdain for business.

Obama's larger point in the speech was to add qualifiers to success. It was an attempt to add some kind of collective guilt to successful individuals and businesses, chiefly to justify higher taxes on them. It was also a thinly veiled attempt to discredit at least some part of their success, to stoke at least some resentment among those who have been less successful. His tacit message is that it isn't really "you" who made your success, rather it was your ability to exploit the things "we" paid for which allowed you to prosper. It wasn't your "smarts" or "hard work", but some random benefit you received that others didn't. Obama often mentions "luck" as a factor in success, which, while maybe partially true in some cases, isn't exactly an inspiring message from a President.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/07/27/obamas-build-that-comment-makes-perfect-sense-in-context

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail


Try looking up the word CONTEXT.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail


Try looking up the word CONTEXT.

The full statement is just as damning as the snip, Ron. More so, because in the full context, he also disses hard work and brains.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Right. Brains and hard work have nothing to do with success, Ron. If you wish to buy into that, go right ahead.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Right. Brains and hard work have nothing to do with success, Ron. If you wish to buy into that, go right ahead.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Right. Brains and hard work have nothing to do with success, Ron. If you wish to buy into that, go right ahead.

And if that's what you think the passage says, communicating with you through words isn't going to help.