RE: Military cuts (Full Version)

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joether -> RE: Military cuts (7/30/2012 2:12:01 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity
And since there is no equivalent to the military in the private sector, what youve shown does not apply. In other words, the Obama campaign is lying again


There are no medical doctors in the military, Sanity? What happens when our soldiers get shot with bullets? Do they just wave their hand over the wound and say 'all better'?

There are no waste disposal technicans and engineers in the military? Could you explain why the US Navy is switching from urninals to generic facilities on its newest carriers slated for being finished in 2015? The US Navy stated that the urinals unlike the toilets clogged more often and were often a pain to deal with. Guess who gets to fix those pipes?

How about Military Police? Pilots? Generals/Admirals and other....Chief Executive Officer positions? JAG lawyers? Mechanics? Gunsmiths? Guards? Marksmen? Cyberwarefare Specialist? Your going to have us believe there are no private sector equivilants to these military roles? Are you really THIS dumb?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity
Soldiers and sailors and airmen etc are not employees taz, theyre essentially government property. And again, there are no soldiers in the private sector to speak of so there is no bringing military compensation in line with the private sector.


Actually they are employees. They are employed by the US Military, whom gets 100% of their funds directly from the US Goverment. Just like FBI agents are employees. They are employed by the FBI (that's why they are called FBI agents...). The FBI gets 100% of its funds directly from the US Goverment. So far your arguement doesnt hold any water. But it gets better! No soldiers in the private sector? You've never heard of the company called 'Academi'? They used to have an infamous name here in the States back during the middle of the Bush Administration: Blackwater! What is a private sector version of a soldier often called? A MERCENARY!





Aswad -> RE: Military cuts (7/30/2012 4:37:53 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

There are no medical doctors in the military, Sanity? What happens when our soldiers get shot with bullets? Do they just wave their hand over the wound and say 'all better'?


Going by popular games, it would appear they pick up health packs and run on.

IWYW,
— Aswad.





MrRodgers -> RE: Military cuts (7/30/2012 5:20:17 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

More lies and hyperbole from Obama, who would have thunk it.[8|]

I am all eyes on those. Got any ?




MrRodgers -> RE: Military cuts (7/30/2012 5:21:26 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RacerJim

Thus far, every charge against Romney made by Obama has been proven grossly misleading or outright false...even by liberal Obama supporting Fackcheck.org and the Washington Post.

I am all eyes here too. Got any you care to share ?




MrRodgers -> RE: Military cuts (7/30/2012 5:26:29 AM)

There will be no military cuts except around the edges and overhead. Every war toy they want...they get. The pentagon is simply the greatest for-profit bottomless money hole every created.

Most businesses involved absolutely love the pentagon and the large margins, lack of accountability and oversight and the greatest invention ever in govt. (spending) procurement...Milspecs.




Sanity -> RE: Military cuts (7/30/2012 5:33:22 AM)


Right joe, theres a huge private Army... Navy... Air Force and Marine Corps

Blackwater employs four or five times the troops the US Military does in fact [;)]

Its HUGE... [:D]

And again, though, it was clear enough that Obama was spreading his lies about actual soldiers and thats what the discussion was focused on, I did touch on such technicians pay (or "compensation") when I wrote that those techs are paid a fraction of the private sector, that said techs are often in for the training and benefits NOT the pay, that they arent their skill level isnt always all that great either. Further, as a civilian one would see a physician for certain levels of ailments but in the Army a low level medic with minimal training would treat that same issue. I also wrote a couple of times that such techs would receive very large raises were Obamas lies about the Romney proposal accurate, didnt I? But I am always happy to repeat myself for those who have difficulty catching on the first time around.

And the FBI isnt military, joe

And no, soldiers arent employees. They cant quit, and they cant form unions etc

quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity
And since there is no equivalent to the military in the private sector, what youve shown does not apply. In other words, the Obama campaign is lying again


There are no medical doctors in the military, Sanity? What happens when our soldiers get shot with bullets? Do they just wave their hand over the wound and say 'all better'?

There are no waste disposal technicans and engineers in the military? Could you explain why the US Navy is switching from urninals to generic facilities on its newest carriers slated for being finished in 2015? The US Navy stated that the urinals unlike the toilets clogged more often and were often a pain to deal with. Guess who gets to fix those pipes?

How about Military Police? Pilots? Generals/Admirals and other....Chief Executive Officer positions? JAG lawyers? Mechanics? Gunsmiths? Guards? Marksmen? Cyberwarefare Specialist? Your going to have us believe there are no private sector equivilants to these military roles? Are you really THIS dumb?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity
Soldiers and sailors and airmen etc are not employees taz, theyre essentially government property. And again, there are no soldiers in the private sector to speak of so there is no bringing military compensation in line with the private sector.


Actually they are employees. They are employed by the US Military, whom gets 100% of their funds directly from the US Goverment. Just like FBI agents are employees. They are employed by the FBI (that's why they are called FBI agents...). The FBI gets 100% of its funds directly from the US Goverment. So far your arguement doesnt hold any water. But it gets better! No soldiers in the private sector? You've never heard of the company called 'Academi'? They used to have an infamous name here in the States back during the middle of the Bush Administration: Blackwater! What is a private sector version of a soldier often called? A MERCENARY!







tazzygirl -> RE: Military cuts (7/30/2012 5:37:36 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

There will be no military cuts except around the edges and overhead. Every war toy they want...they get. The pentagon is simply the greatest for-profit bottomless money hole every created.

Most businesses involved absolutely love the pentagon and the large margins, lack of accountability and oversight and the greatest invention ever in govt. (spending) procurement...Milspecs.


You are right... the businesses associated with the military wont feel a single cut... the men and women will.... under this proposal.




Sanity -> RE: Military cuts (7/30/2012 5:38:51 AM)


For those who skipped reading the OP, heres the premise of the discussion:

quote:

Really? Is this the route we want to go now? Is Romney and his precious buddies pockets more dear to them than the men and women fighting in the trenches?




Sanity -> RE: Military cuts (7/30/2012 5:40:04 AM)


Youve proven to yourself that this is a lie, and yet you persist in it?

Why... ?

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

You are right... the businesses associated with the military wont feel a single cut... the men and women will.... under this proposal.






tazzygirl -> RE: Military cuts (7/30/2012 5:43:00 AM)

You simply cannot read, Sanity... no surprise there. Spin all you wish... its in plain english on his site. Informationw as supplied, and yet you keep insisting, despite refusals to offer any proof, that military men and women are excluded from those cuts.

Do have a wonderful day though. [:D]





Sanity -> RE: Military cuts (7/30/2012 5:58:31 AM)


No tazzy, you proved it when you provided your link to documentation proving that our military men and women "fighting in the trenches" as you put it in your OP receive a fraction of what the civilian sector does

Heres where you provided the link that the military is paid ("compensated") much less than the civilian sector

http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=4189192

And heres where you write that you believe Romney intends to bring their "compensation" in line with the civilian world

http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=4188707

That equates to a pay RAISE!!! [:D]

Though Obamas smear team didnt establish that the military was included in the Romney proposal, you persisted in believing that it did for no valid reason (other than your faith in Obama I would presume).

And now, even after youve established for yourself that if Romneys proposal included "the men and women fighting in the trenches" their pay ("compensation") would skyrocket you still believe that their pay would somehow be cut...

Thats really some astounding faith you have in Obama, taz [:D]


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

You simply cannot read, Sanity... no surprise there. Spin all you wish... its in plain english on his site. Informationw as supplied, and yet you keep insisting, despite refusals to offer any proof, that military men and women are excluded from those cuts.

Do have a wonderful day though. [:D]







MrRodgers -> RE: Military cuts (7/30/2012 6:20:09 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Youve proven to yourself that this is a lie, and yet you persist in it?

Why... ?

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

You are right... the businesses associated with the military wont feel a single cut... the men and women will.... under this proposal.




What I am thinking is that as always in the country with such great values, the defense industry will suffer cuts in low-level employees so as to always...always protect the return on capital for investors.




tazzygirl -> RE: Military cuts (7/30/2012 6:39:33 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


No tazzy, you proved it when you provided your link to documentation proving that our military men and women "fighting in the trenches" as you put it in your OP receive a fraction of what the civilian sector does

Heres where you provided the link that the military is paid ("compensated") much less than the civilian sector

http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=4189192

And heres where you write that you believe Romney intends to bring their "compensation" in line with the civilian world

http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=4188707

That equates to a pay RAISE!!! [:D]

Though Obamas smear team didnt establish that the military was included in the Romney proposal, you persisted in believing that it did for no valid reason (other than your faith in Obama I would presume).

And now, even after youve established for yourself that if Romneys proposal included "the men and women fighting in the trenches" their pay ("compensation") would skyrocket you still believe that their pay would somehow be cut...

Thats really some astounding faith you have in Obama, taz [:D]


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

You simply cannot read, Sanity... no surprise there. Spin all you wish... its in plain english on his site. Informationw as supplied, and yet you keep insisting, despite refusals to offer any proof, that military men and women are excluded from those cuts.

Do have a wonderful day though. [:D]







Sighs... you really are ths.. ahem.

If the pay compensation was at 50%, no one would touch a thing.

That its at 90% means that 9 out of 10 military personnel make more than the civilian in the same job.

quote:

For example, when RMC falls at the 70th percentile of private sector pay, RMC is higher than the pay of seven in ten workers and lower than the pay of three in ten workers.


http://prhome.defense.gov/rfm/mpp/qrmc/Vol2/v2c2.pdf

You may want to rethink your post. This is saying that, at this time, the RMC is higher than the pay of 9 out of 10 workers in the private sector.




subrob1967 -> RE: Military cuts (7/30/2012 6:56:55 AM)

So we have one lefty here that claims Romney would be worse than Bush as far as military spending and conflicts, and another who believes the Obama spokesman when he spins a Romney statement about adjusting the compensation of federal employees to match the private sector to cutting military spending.[8|]

And you guys wonder why the majority of America doesn't buy into this shit?

What happened to you guys, I thought you were all about fairness and shit. You should be embracing Romney and his plan to make everything "fair", isn't that what you want?

"The rich need to pay their fair share" and all that? How about federal employees, shouldn't they have to pay their fair share too?

And since when is a soldier compared to a civilian public sector employee? Does a soldier get three weeks of paid vacation, holidays and weekends off? Do they get to go home tho their families every night, or make overtime pay?

Are they allowed to speak out against the President?

Did the President's staff have to go through boot camp? How about that clerk filing papers in the basement of the federal building in Bumfuck Nebraska, did they have to deploy out of country, and fight a war to earn their compensation package?

Make up our minds, on one hand you're screaming to know Romney's "plan" and in the other hand your whining about Romney's unannounced plan. Which is it, do you know the "plan" or don't you?




mnottertail -> RE: Military cuts (7/30/2012 6:59:44 AM)

Does a soldier get three weeks of paid vacation, holidays and weekends off?
Actually 30 days, and yes holidays and weekends off for the most of them.


Do they get to go home tho their families every night, or make overtime pay?
Some do get to go home to their families every night, and some make other ancillary pay.




subrob1967 -> RE: Military cuts (7/30/2012 7:10:34 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Does a soldier get three weeks of paid vacation, holidays and weekends off?
Actually 30 days, and yes holidays and weekends off for the most of them.


Do they get to go home tho their families every night, or make overtime pay?
Some do get to go home to their families every night, and some make other ancillary pay.



Some... Yeah some[8|] Tell ya what Ron, if you want to equate a military member to a gs employee, why don't you start a online petition demanding every federal employee receive VA medical care?




mnottertail -> RE: Military cuts (7/30/2012 7:12:04 AM)

Some GS recieve better medical care than VA care since Reagan, W and that lot have decimated the VA funding.




mnottertail -> RE: Military cuts (7/30/2012 7:17:43 AM)

And you guys wonder why the majority of America doesn't buy into this shit?

The majority of America doesnt buy into the teabaggers shit from the realities we see around us.  Although they have been willingly duped into that shit several times, but they wake up again.




subrob1967 -> RE: Military cuts (7/30/2012 7:35:43 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

And you guys wonder why the majority of America doesn't buy into this shit?

The majority of America doesnt buy into the teabaggers shit from the realities we see around us.  Although they have been willingly duped into that shit several times, but they wake up again.


Yeah you happily accept unemployment rates in the 8's, and millions of American's on food stamps... I understand why YOU like it, the worse the economy does, the better your business does. But you'll see in November that America is no longer buying Obama's progressive agenda.




mnottertail -> RE: Military cuts (7/30/2012 7:36:36 AM)

No, the congress does, they havent done one fucking thing except borrow and spend and send jobs overseas.  Thats the teabaggers.




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