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Conservatives Are Losing The Culture War - 7/29/2012 8:25:26 PM   
Owner59


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http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/big-brands-take-public-stands-in-gay-marriage-debate-amazons-bezos-donates-25m-in-wash/2012/07/27/gJQAgHZOEX_story.html



I`ll thank the president for helping to push the bolder a little further.

It`s inevitable.Progressive and liberal values are become mainstream and as time marches on...they become basic, core American values.

Liberty,privacy,freedom of association and freedom FROM religious fundie-dogma-pushers.

In our lifetimes.....kids will look at this and wonder how in the world could such naked discrimination exist.

One day soon......gay marriage will be as normal as the sunrise.


"Gay rights advocates say the activism sends a strong message.

“Companies are a bellwether of what is in the mainstream,” said Marc Solomon, the national campaign manager for Freedom to Marry, a New York-based group that advocates for same-sex marriage. “When you have some of the mainstays of corporate leadership stand up, that’s important. It sends a powerful message about where our society is right now.”

Solomon and other national advocates say the donation by Bezos and his wife, MacKenzie, is the largest publicly reported gift to support a gay marriage ballot measure, noting that some gay marriage opponents have tried to shield their donor".....


< Message edited by Owner59 -- 7/29/2012 8:27:26 PM >


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RE: Conservatives Are Losing The Culture War - 7/30/2012 4:31:00 AM   
thishereboi


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One of these day you are going to figure out that there are homophobes and religious nuts on the left too. Then who are you going to hate?

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RE: Conservatives Are Losing The Culture War - 7/30/2012 5:02:52 AM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

One of these day you are going to figure out that there are homophobes and religious nuts on the left too. Then who are you going to hate?

Care to name a few of them?
(Helpful hint: neither Stalin, Hitler nor Pol Pot were lefties, whatever Rush says...)

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RE: Conservatives Are Losing The Culture War - 7/30/2012 5:11:39 AM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

One of these day you are going to figure out that there are homophobes and religious nuts on the left too. Then who are you going to hate?

Those on the left primarily don't need to announce it to the world like those on the right today, are not active in trying convince people otherwise, don't insist on creationism being taught as factual science, don't believe that only the christian right has a monopoly on the virtuous social policies.

By far, most of the left don't constantly harp on family values while cheating on their wives and telling their gay kids they can be 'cured.' They don't lobby against gambling while playing bingo, poker and the lottery.

Any more...?

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RE: Conservatives Are Losing The Culture War - 7/30/2012 5:36:46 AM   
Yachtie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/big-brands-take-public-stands-in-gay-marriage-debate-amazons-bezos-donates-25m-in-wash/2012/07/27/gJQAgHZOEX_story.html



I`ll thank the president for helping to push the bolder a little further.

It`s inevitable.Progressive and liberal values are become mainstream and as time marches on...they become basic, core American values.

Liberty,privacy,freedom of association and freedom FROM religious fundie-dogma-pushers.

In our lifetimes.....kids will look at this and wonder how in the world could such naked discrimination exist.

One day soon......gay marriage will be as normal as the sunrise.


"Gay rights advocates say the activism sends a strong message.

“Companies are a bellwether of what is in the mainstream,” said Marc Solomon, the national campaign manager for Freedom to Marry, a New York-based group that advocates for same-sex marriage. “When you have some of the mainstays of corporate leadership stand up, that’s important. It sends a powerful message about where our society is right now.”

Solomon and other national advocates say the donation by Bezos and his wife, MacKenzie, is the largest publicly reported gift to support a gay marriage ballot measure, noting that some gay marriage opponents have tried to shield their donor".....




Absolutely true. Conservatives are losing the culture war. Western civilization is dying, morphing into something other. The Progressives will undoubtedly not get what they desire, though rest assured they shall get what they deserve.


_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

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RE: Conservatives Are Losing The Culture War - 7/30/2012 6:02:44 AM   
Hillwilliam


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I'm still trying to figure out why the Republican party is so against marriage that doesn't fit a narrow definition.

Marriage is a civil contract.
As long as 2 or more people who are of legal age, sound mind and not under coercion wish to enter into a contract, why does the party of "Small Government" and "non interference" insist on sticking their nose into it.

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RE: Conservatives Are Losing The Culture War - 7/30/2012 6:27:29 AM   
subrob1967


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

I'm still trying to figure out why the Republican party is so against marriage that doesn't fit a narrow definition.

Marriage is a civil contract.
As long as 2 or more people who are of legal age, sound mind and not under coercion wish to enter into a contract, why does the party of "Small Government" and "non interference" insist on sticking their nose into it.



For the same reason the democrats, "the blue collar party" needs to regulate jobs out of existence, and gleefully voted for the largest middle class tax increase in the history of the US... It's all about the power to govern.

The republicans want to tell you who you can marry, and the democrats want to tell you how to live.

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RE: Conservatives Are Losing The Culture War - 7/30/2012 6:35:15 AM   
stellauk


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This has been coming for years and is largely as a result of the unforeseen consequences of so much technological advances.

There's a simple truth, and that is that we can solve all our economic problems and a good deal of our social problems by working together and being creative. When one person is creative, it usually inspires someone else to be creative on their own terms, and this in turn creates further opportunity for someone else to be inspired and to be creative on their own terms.

Okay so some people have benefitted from all these changes that technology has brought us, but that is some, and that success and those benefits have all come with a terrible human cost. People have died, others have lost their livelihoods, some have lost their homes, their families, their savings.

You see on the other side all these technological advances have brought opportunities for crime to escalate, for poverty to increase and spread, and I think it's fair enough to say that many people today are struggling who shouldn't be struggling.

I'm not in complete agreement with the OP, but say 80%. There are lessons to be learned for all politicians and religious leaders. It's like the left has to learn from the mistakes of the right and vice versa.

You see also there's a bottom line which applies to Americans just as much as it applies to Brits. Both form an integral part of English language culture which dominates the world. Kids all over the world grow up with contact with Disney, Coca Cola, they know who the Beatles are, the Rolling Stones, they know what Hollywood is.

We are talking here about a culture that the whole world wants to share and be a part of.

America isn't Number One any more, and hasn't been for some time. It's like Western Europe, part of the newly developing Second World, post-industrialist, and like Western Europe or Europe in the shadow of a disintegrating European Union America has to find its way forward in the knowledge that globalization isn't working.

We are fortunate that we have that culture to fall back on, but it doesn't excuse homeless people on the streets, it doesn't excuse people living off welfare, it doesn't excuse people having to turn to crime because they feel they have no other option. All of these people, in fact everyone at the lower levels of society are there because either they cannot make use of opportunities to better themselves, or such opportunities simply don't exist.

Those opportunities have to come from somewhere, and they can only come from people who can create such opportunities - the rest of society and politicians.

Society cannot move forward if half of it is disaffected and struggling. Society cannot move forward if one half of society wants it all and wants nothing to do with the other half of society. Society cannot move forward if everyone is going to be pointing fingers at others, blaming others and arguing over who is responsible.

Taking a stand against gay marriage is futile. It won't stop people forming same sex relationships. It also doesn't create jobs or address any of the more urgent needs of people in society. All it really is is a bunch of men - both on the right wing and LGBT activists - arguing over nothing more than where a man should or should not stick his penis.

People don't want to know about where some people like or don't like their penises, they want to know that they can have somewhere decent to live, they want to know that they can support themselves with meaningful and fulfilling work, they want to know that they can afford to get through the month.

There is a need on both left and right to reach out to people and to create more inclusive policies, ones which really address the core issues of poverty, crime and social exclusion.

This is more so on the right wing, and I really do believe the direction the Republican Party needs to go is social justice combined with conservatism. This means embracing diversity and accepting that some people are gay and need same sex partners in order to feel loved and happy. It means reaching out to people at the very bottom of society, the unemployed, the homeless, the destitute, and equipping them with as much opportunity as necessary so that they can come back into society and become both financially independent and productive.

Here in the UK we have had a political party on the right which has just annihilated itself with bigotry and hatred - the British National Party.

It would be sad to see the Republican Party go down the same route.

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RE: Conservatives Are Losing The Culture War - 7/30/2012 6:36:54 AM   
Yachtie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
I'm still trying to figure out why the Republican party is so against marriage that doesn't fit a narrow definition.


Not surprising. You've been told time and time again yet you continue not to understand. Explaining it to you is futile. You claim marriage is but a civil contract yet 2000 years of history and culture say otherwise. It is that aspect of your lack of understanding which I'm still trying to figure out. Why is it you just don't get it?



_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

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RE: Conservatives Are Losing The Culture War - 7/30/2012 6:45:16 AM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

I'm still trying to figure out why the Republican party is so against marriage that doesn't fit a narrow definition.

Marriage is a civil contract.
As long as 2 or more people who are of legal age, sound mind and not under coercion wish to enter into a contract, why does the party of "Small Government" and "non interference" insist on sticking their nose into it.



For the same reason the democrats, "the blue collar party" needs to regulate jobs out of existence, and gleefully voted for the largest middle class tax increase in the history of the US... It's all about the power to govern.

The republicans want to tell you who you can marry, and the democrats want to tell you how to live.

...and you think people are still buying this bullshit ?

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RE: Conservatives Are Losing The Culture War - 7/30/2012 7:05:35 AM   
subrob1967


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

...and you think people are still buying this bullshit ?


Are you telling us you don't believe a politician will say or do whatever it takes to keep their job?

Or are you saying that progressives don't want to tell people how to live? One just needs to look at NYC to know your wrong, Bloomberg is now trying to lock up baby formula in hospitals so he can force mother's to breast feed their new born. And regulate your salt intake, AND soda drinking... Yeah neighbor, you're right, I'm full of shit

< Message edited by subrob1967 -- 7/30/2012 7:06:37 AM >


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RE: Conservatives Are Losing The Culture War - 7/30/2012 7:10:32 AM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie


quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/big-brands-take-public-stands-in-gay-marriage-debate-amazons-bezos-donates-25m-in-wash/2012/07/27/gJQAgHZOEX_story.html



I`ll thank the president for helping to push the bolder a little further.

It`s inevitable.Progressive and liberal values are become mainstream and as time marches on...they become basic, core American values.

Liberty,privacy,freedom of association and freedom FROM religious fundie-dogma-pushers.

In our lifetimes.....kids will look at this and wonder how in the world could such naked discrimination exist.

One day soon......gay marriage will be as normal as the sunrise.


"Gay rights advocates say the activism sends a strong message.

“Companies are a bellwether of what is in the mainstream,” said Marc Solomon, the national campaign manager for Freedom to Marry, a New York-based group that advocates for same-sex marriage. “When you have some of the mainstays of corporate leadership stand up, that’s important. It sends a powerful message about where our society is right now.”

Solomon and other national advocates say the donation by Bezos and his wife, MacKenzie, is the largest publicly reported gift to support a gay marriage ballot measure, noting that some gay marriage opponents have tried to shield their donor".....




Absolutely true. Conservatives are losing the culture war. Western civilization is dying, morphing into something other. The Progressives will undoubtedly not get what they desire, though rest assured they shall get what they deserve.


What 'progressives' are you referring to ? Teddy Roosevelt, Warren Buffet, Michael Bloomberg ? The term 'progressives' can take on any connotation one wishes.

Yes, the conservatives, at least those from the 'rigthteous' right are watching the progressive social agenda become much more popular than their hypocritical and often ignorant, uninformed way.

They prefer what the policies of the 'W's" of the world and what others on the right have brought us...the indentured (debt ridden) divided, impoverished serfdom of the new world order.

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RE: Conservatives Are Losing The Culture War - 7/30/2012 7:13:19 AM   
subrob1967


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

What 'progressives' are you referring to ? Teddy Roosevelt, Warren Buffet, Michael Bloomberg ? The term 'progressives' can take on any connotation one wishes.

Yes, the conservatives, at least those from the 'rigthteous' right are watching the progressive social agenda become much more popular than their hypocritical and often ignorant, uninformed way.

They prefer what the policies of the 'W's" of the world and what others on the right have brought us...the indentured (debt ridden) divided, impoverished serfdom of the new world order.


How is that progressive social agenda working in Chicago, or Detroit neighbor?

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RE: Conservatives Are Losing The Culture War - 7/30/2012 7:18:45 AM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

...and you think people are still buying this bullshit ?


Are you telling us you don't believe a politician will say or do whatever it takes to keep their job?

Or are you saying that progressives don't want to tell people how to live? One just needs to look at NYC to know your wrong, Bloomberg is now trying to lock up baby formula in hospitals so he can force mother's to breast feed their new born. And regulate your salt intake, AND soda drinking... Yeah neighbor, you're right, I'm full of shit

On the contrary, he is enacting a more progressive agenda, some of which will succeed and some...fail. The idea of taxing what destroys the body , causes a reduction in health care costs brought about because of individual's addictive behavior and consumption.

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RE: Conservatives Are Losing The Culture War - 7/30/2012 7:21:13 AM   
Yachtie


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There exists within the left a subset known as Progressives. Not all leftists are Progressives (just as not all conservatives are neo-cons). Progressives have one thing in common, that being the desire that certain aspects of western civilization be utterly destroyed in favor of their perception of truth, equality and social justice.

Now, so as to give equal disfavor, the neo-cons, though not in favor of utterly destroying certain aspects of western civilization are, conversely to the Progressives, adamant to export western civilization to peoples who seemingly have no desire to embrace it. The neo-cons are quite dangerous but for very different reasons.

Both are running the grave risk of the destruction of western civilization. Both are succeeding.

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

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RE: Conservatives Are Losing The Culture War - 7/30/2012 7:21:13 AM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

...and you think people are still buying this bullshit ?


Are you telling us you don't believe a politician will say or do whatever it takes to keep their job?

Or are you saying that progressives don't want to tell people how to live? One just needs to look at NYC to know your wrong, Bloomberg is now trying to lock up baby formula in hospitals so he can force mother's to breast feed their new born. And regulate your salt intake, AND soda drinking... Yeah neighbor, you're right, I'm full of shit

I know, I know, the right wants to party and let somebody else...cover the costs. Yes, most...not all but most politicians will say just about anything to get and remain elected...the right is easily the most guilty party...not the progressives.

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RE: Conservatives Are Losing The Culture War - 7/30/2012 7:26:31 AM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

There exists within the left a subset known as Progressives. Not all leftists are Progressives (just as not all conservatives are neo-cons). Progressives have one thing in common, that being the desire that certain aspects of western civilization be utterly destroyed in favor of their perception of truth, equality and social justice.

Now, so as to give equal disfavor, the neo-cons, though not in favor of utterly destroying certain aspects of western civilization are, conversely to the Progressives, adamant to export western civilization to peoples who seemingly have no desire to embrace it. The neo-cons are quite dangerous but for very different reasons.

Both are running the grave risk of the destruction of western civilization. Both are succeeding.

Yet, it is the right's insistence of the for-profit culture that has created the economic mess we are in now. I'd like to take on some of the 'progressive' policies without a profit in mind and give them a chance to work.

Even the 'war on poverty' had its middlemen for whom it was directed while only a portion went to the truly needy. The needy that the right for 100 years or more confirms Chomsky's vision...either make a profit for yourself or somebody else...or just go ahead and go to jail or die.

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RE: Conservatives Are Losing The Culture War - 7/30/2012 7:27:10 AM   
subrob1967


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
I know, I know, the right wants to party and let somebody else...cover the costs. Yes, most...not all but most politicians will say just about anything to get and remain elected...the right is easily the most guilty party...not the progressives.


Prove it, show us the burned out husk of a major city in a conservative state. Detroit was once known THE MOTOR CITY, they once were THEE place automobiles were made. Chicago is now a cesspool of shootings, and flash mob assaults. Show us where a conservative run city has turned out as bad as either of these examples of progressive leadership.

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RE: Conservatives Are Losing The Culture War - 7/30/2012 7:30:38 AM   
LaTigresse


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I used to be a conservative........until political conservatives began aligning themselves more and more with the religious wingnuts of this country. That pandering of bigoted morality is what pushed me to the left of centre.

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My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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RE: Conservatives Are Losing The Culture War - 7/30/2012 7:36:14 AM   
Yachtie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

Yet, it is the right's insistence of the for-profit culture that has created the economic mess we are in now. I'd like to take on some of the 'progressive' policies without a profit in mind and give them a chance to work.



That for-profit culture built what you enjoy. It only took it a few hundred years. You'd like to dismantle it in favor of just what? Just what truth, equality and social justice do you favor? Just what culture can you point to that was ever built upon, not absconded by, Progressive ideals?




_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to MrRodgers)
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