RE: Conservatives Are Losing The Culture War (Full Version)

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MrRodgers -> RE: Conservatives Are Losing The Culture War (7/30/2012 7:39:07 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

What 'progressives' are you referring to ? Teddy Roosevelt, Warren Buffet, Michael Bloomberg ? The term 'progressives' can take on any connotation one wishes.

Yes, the conservatives, at least those from the 'rigthteous' right are watching the progressive social agenda become much more popular than their hypocritical and often ignorant, uninformed way.

They prefer what the policies of the 'W's" of the world and what others on the right have brought us...the indentured (debt ridden) divided, impoverished serfdom of the new world order.


How is that progressive social agenda working in Chicago, or Detroit neighbor?

Oh not at all and on the contrary.

It is the capitalist agenda designing the future of most cities and they are doing just fine...lining the upper Streeterville markets while letting the projects decay in a rubble.

(the fortune 1000 has virtually eliminated ALL labor from all US cities)

In Detroit again it is the capitalist policies that have completely eviscerated the entire manufacturing base having moved labor to the real profit-center...communist, slave labor.

Almost anything positive out of those cities is despite the right wing so-called 'conservative' agenda.




MrRodgers -> RE: Conservatives Are Losing The Culture War (7/30/2012 7:44:15 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead


quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

One of these day you are going to figure out that there are homophobes and religious nuts on the left too. Then who are you going to hate?

Care to name a few of them?
(Helpful hint: neither Stalin, Hitler nor Pol Pot were lefties, whatever Rush says...)

...he has to call them leftists or 'progressives' because they were all right wing (police-state) fascists dictators and they need to lie, obfuscate, confuse and mislabel all historical right leaning undemocratic regimes.




Musicmystery -> RE: Conservatives Are Losing The Culture War (7/30/2012 8:03:39 AM)

quote:

Conservatives Are Losing The Culture War

In the short term, no.

In the long term, when things get worse and worse, there comes a tipping point.




Anaxagoras -> RE: Conservatives Are Losing The Culture War (7/30/2012 8:11:33 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead
quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi
One of these day you are going to figure out that there are homophobes and religious nuts on the left too. Then who are you going to hate?

Care to name a few of them?
(Helpful hint: neither Stalin, Hitler nor Pol Pot were lefties, whatever Rush says...)

...he has to call them leftists or 'progressives' because they were all right wing (police-state) fascists dictators and they need to lie, obfuscate, confuse and mislabel all historical right leaning undemocratic regimes.

Are you and Moon trying to parody certain leftwingers who consign all that is rweelly ebil to the right? If so then you're both doing an excellent job... [:D]




Hillwilliam -> RE: Conservatives Are Losing The Culture War (7/30/2012 8:39:58 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
I'm still trying to figure out why the Republican party is so against marriage that doesn't fit a narrow definition.


Not surprising. You've been told time and time again yet you continue not to understand. Explaining it to you is futile. You claim marriage is but a civil contract yet 2000 years of history and culture say otherwise. It is that aspect of your lack of understanding which I'm still trying to figure out. Why is it you just don't get it?



I had this discussion with a coworker who insisted that marriage was a sacred vow before the allmighty. I said "Are you saying that Aetheists cannot be married and that any marriage performed by a justice of peace or notary are invalid?"

Same old tired points. If marriage is a "Sacred vow before God" then why are aetheists and agnostics allowed to marry?
If it is not a civil contract, then why does it require a judge and not a preacher to dissolve one?

Im sorry but your point fails when confronted with the real world.

As for "2000 years of history and culture", some of us have progressed past a geocentric universe, burning witches and the belief that disease was caused by 'bad air' or 'evil spirits' [8|]

ETA, I have not been told this time and time again. This is only the second time I have ever mentioned it on the boards. Do try to be factual in the future.




Hillwilliam -> RE: Conservatives Are Losing The Culture War (7/30/2012 8:43:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

There exists within the left a subset known as Progressives. Not all leftists are Progressives (just as not all conservatives are neo-cons).

I'll go even further. I'll say that NO conservatives are "Neo-cons".




Moonhead -> RE: Conservatives Are Losing The Culture War (7/30/2012 9:03:00 AM)

Well, that's the whole point of the neocon label in the first place, is it not? To separate the crazy big government chickenhawk credit bubblers from actual conservatives...
(That said, there do seem to be far more neocons than conservatives on the right these days.)




Anaxagoras -> RE: Conservatives Are Losing The Culture War (7/30/2012 9:28:15 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead
Well, that's the whole point of the neocon label in the first place, is it not? To separate the crazy big government chickenhawk credit bubblers from actual conservatives...
(That said, there do seem to be far more neocons than conservatives on the right these days.)

How would you classify Mr. Pot and Unkle Joe on your rweelly ebil conservative shit list?




Yachtie -> RE: Conservatives Are Losing The Culture War (7/30/2012 9:41:56 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Well, that's the whole point of the neocon label in the first place, is it not? To separate the crazy big government chickenhawk credit bubblers from actual conservatives...
(That said, there do seem to be far more neocons than conservatives on the right these days.)


Agreed. And what I'm not sure about is whether Progressives are a majority of Liberals, but only assuredly way more vocal.

Hillwilliam - Same old tired points. If marriage is a "Sacred vow before God" then why are aetheists and agnostics allowed to marry?
If it is not a civil contract, then why does it require a judge and not a preacher to dissolve one?


Because such has only existed since the secular State declared such.





Hillwilliam -> RE: Conservatives Are Losing The Culture War (7/30/2012 9:44:43 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Well, that's the whole point of the neocon label in the first place, is it not? To separate the crazy big government chickenhawk credit bubblers from actual conservatives...
(That said, there do seem to be far more neocons than conservatives on the right these days.)


Agreed.

Hillwilliam - Same old tired points. If marriage is a "Sacred vow before God" then why are aetheists and agnostics allowed to marry?
If it is not a civil contract, then why does it require a judge and not a preacher to dissolve one?


Because such has only existed since the secular State declared such.



Sounds like you support the belief that secular law should not be allowed to be the law of the land. Are you growing your beard long and wearing a robe and headscarf as you type that?




Yachtie -> RE: Conservatives Are Losing The Culture War (7/30/2012 9:48:38 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
Sounds like you support the belief that secular law should not be allowed to be the law of the land. Are you growing your beard long and wearing a robe and headscarf as you type that?


Only so far as not destroying western civilization and many of its institutions which embody same. It's the difference between old fashioned social liberalism and Progressivism. I appreciate the former and abhor the latter.










Hillwilliam -> RE: Conservatives Are Losing The Culture War (7/30/2012 9:52:13 AM)

There are those on the right who would destroy 1000+ years of western civilization as well.


[image]local://upfiles/664494/8E6A0ED241DA4F85B2FEEE45FD02A631.jpg[/image]




Moonhead -> RE: Conservatives Are Losing The Culture War (7/30/2012 10:02:57 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Well, that's the whole point of the neocon label in the first place, is it not? To separate the crazy big government chickenhawk credit bubblers from actual conservatives...
(That said, there do seem to be far more neocons than conservatives on the right these days.)


Agreed. And what I'm not sure about is whether Progressives are a majority of Liberals, but only assuredly way more vocal.

Definitely a minority: your society wouldn't be moving to the right at the speed it is if more of the "liberals" (the bulk of whom in elected office are more right leaning centrists apart from a few conspicuous exceptions who appear to belong in a very different party to the democrats) were progressives, would it?




DomKen -> RE: Conservatives Are Losing The Culture War (7/30/2012 12:12:36 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

What 'progressives' are you referring to ? Teddy Roosevelt, Warren Buffet, Michael Bloomberg ? The term 'progressives' can take on any connotation one wishes.

Yes, the conservatives, at least those from the 'rigthteous' right are watching the progressive social agenda become much more popular than their hypocritical and often ignorant, uninformed way.

They prefer what the policies of the 'W's" of the world and what others on the right have brought us...the indentured (debt ridden) divided, impoverished serfdom of the new world order.


How is that progressive social agenda working in Chicago, or Detroit neighbor?

Gay bashings are way way down. The police respond very seriously when it does happen.
We still don't have marriage equality but the Governor has made some noise in support.
The last of the abortion opponents have stopped protesting the clinics here. It's been years since anyone even got an anti abortion bill a vote in either house of the state legislature.
The state science standars were redone a few years back to include more discussion of evolution. The creationists seem to have moved out of state seeking more gullible suckers.
We still have a fair number of unions and union members. The unions held off Wal-Mart's entry into the city for years until they got substantial concessions (there is even a quiet move underway to unionize a city Wal-Mart).

So all in all the progressive social agenda is doing quite well in Chicago.




DomKen -> RE: Conservatives Are Losing The Culture War (7/30/2012 12:15:13 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
I know, I know, the right wants to party and let somebody else...cover the costs. Yes, most...not all but most politicians will say just about anything to get and remain elected...the right is easily the most guilty party...not the progressives.


Prove it, show us the burned out husk of a major city in a conservative state. Detroit was once known THE MOTOR CITY, they once were THEE place automobiles were made. Chicago is now a cesspool of shootings, and flash mob assaults. Show us where a conservative run city has turned out as bad as either of these examples of progressive leadership.

Houston. Traffic is unbearable. The murder and violent crime rate is substantially higher than either Chicago or Detroit. Pollution is terrible.




Hillwilliam -> RE: Conservatives Are Losing The Culture War (7/30/2012 12:33:07 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
I know, I know, the right wants to party and let somebody else...cover the costs. Yes, most...not all but most politicians will say just about anything to get and remain elected...the right is easily the most guilty party...not the progressives.


Prove it, show us the burned out husk of a major city in a conservative state. Detroit was once known THE MOTOR CITY, they once were THEE place automobiles were made. Chicago is now a cesspool of shootings, and flash mob assaults. Show us where a conservative run city has turned out as bad as either of these examples of progressive leadership.

Houston. Traffic is unbearable. The murder and violent crime rate is substantially higher than either Chicago or Detroit. Pollution is terrible.

Miami, with Republican leadership, is even worse.




mnottertail -> RE: Conservatives Are Losing The Culture War (7/30/2012 12:35:05 PM)

South Carolina, Alabama, there are more than a few  




subrob1967 -> RE: Conservatives Are Losing The Culture War (7/30/2012 1:56:11 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Gay bashings are way way down. The police respond very seriously when it does happen.
We still don't have marriage equality but the Governor has made some noise in support.
The last of the abortion opponents have stopped protesting the clinics here. It's been years since anyone even got an anti abortion bill a vote in either house of the state legislature.
The state science standars were redone a few years back to include more discussion of evolution. The creationists seem to have moved out of state seeking more gullible suckers.
We still have a fair number of unions and union members. The unions held off Wal-Mart's entry into the city for years until they got substantial concessions (there is even a quiet move underway to unionize a city Wal-Mart).

So all in all the progressive social agenda is doing quite well in Chicago.



Quite well... I can see that.
quote:

Across a span of four days, more than 40 shootings and 10 homicides were reported in Chicago over the Memorial Day weekend -- a big jump when compared to the four homicides reported during the same holiday weekend last year. Among those injured by gunfire was a 7-year-old girl, who was listed in good condition Saturday evening.

The weekend was the city's bloodiest since mid-March.

Early Tuesday, Ivan Alanis, a 13-year-old boy, became yet another Chicago victim of gun violence. Alanis was fatally shot around 2:20 a.m. while eating pizza at Laurie’s Pizzeria and Liquors, 5153 N. Broadway, with his sister, CBS Chicago reports. He was pronounced dead at 3:16 a.m. at Advocate Illinois Medical Center.

Despite the violent weekend, however, McCarthy insisted that the Chicago Police Department's efforts to address gang violence are proving effective, and have actually led to a 7 percent reduction in the number of shootings since March, the Chicago Tribune reports. Gun seizures, too, are up 20 percent since the program has been implemented, according to CBS, while overall crime is down.

Still, homicides in the city so far this year are up nearly 50 percent when compared to last year.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/11/chicago-shootings-8-dead-_n_1586322.html

quote:

There were similar attacks in Streeterville last year. News organizations at first called them "flash mobs," but that made the police angry. These young people didn't mob up to dance. They mobbed up to hit people.

And, in at least two separate incidents last weekend, the one involving the doctor and another in which a Michigan man's jaw was broken, robbery was not the motive.

They didn't rob them. They beat them for fun.

The doctor knows that in other neighborhoods, people are being killed, not merely beaten.

"But it's unsettling when they beat you for pleasure and nothing else," he said.

Streeterville is no war zone. The war zone is far to the south and the west, neighborhoods where gang violence spreads terror every weekend, as if Chicago were Afghanistan.

As if Chicago were Afghanistan...

Sounds like paradise there Ken.[8|]





papassion -> RE: Conservatives Are Losing The Culture War (7/30/2012 2:40:15 PM)


All this talk of how gay marriage will be considered normal by all in the future, and this and that. You want to know what the long term future will be? Look at the Muslim religion. That will be the future. It is the fastest growing religion, its leaders are smart. Doctors, Lawyers, Engineers, scientists. People who know how to organize and run things. Look at the inroads they have already made in the elections in Egypt, ect. And they have the balls to forcibly take what they can't politically win. They have already told the English police to stay out of their community. Said they will handle the law in their community and the English courts have agreed! Look at your liberal hero countries, France, Germany, Holland, Denmark, etc how they are starting to see their mistake in unlimited immigration. No, same sex marriage and a lot of liberal thinking will be replaced with hard line Muslim law. Like it or not, that is the long term future.




mnottertail -> RE: Conservatives Are Losing The Culture War (7/30/2012 2:42:37 PM)

Nah, the national pork producers council will not allow that to happen.


The other white meat.




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