RE: Analyzing D/s relationships bit by bit. (Full Version)

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Karnikula -> RE: Analyzing D/s relationships bit by bit. (8/4/2012 1:56:19 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

[sm=banghead.gif]


?




UllrsIshtar -> RE: Analyzing D/s relationships bit by bit. (8/4/2012 2:05:16 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Karnikula

So I'd rather like to know if you consider yourself generally submissive ?



Nope, not at all. I have fairly dominant personality in both my vanilla social life as well as my kink relationships. However, I wouldn't qualify myself as an alpha type, considering that I don't enjoy being in control or having the lead. I do much better being lead by a strong alpha type than I do being in charge of a group of less dominant people than myself.

That being said, I am absolutely not a people pleaser, I don't submit easily at all; and if somebody tries to dominate me (either socially or in private relationships) whom I don't perceive as actually having a more dominate personality than I do, I end up just scuffing at them instead of obey.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Karnikula

What is it that gets you off in such a scenario usually ?


Being controlled and lead by a man who has a more dominant personality than myself is sexually erotic to me, because it reminds me very sharply of his "otherness" than me. It provides a sharp contrast between my own softness, vulnerability, and felinity (something that usually doesn't come out easily due to the dominant personality I have) and his masculinity, decisiveness and fortitude. The sharper the contrast, the more it turns me on, which is also why I have a fairly narrow "playbook" of things that will attract me in dominant men; all which have to do with extreme masculine features like deep voice, strength, body hair, beards, conciseness in speech and so on. The more abruptly decisive and in control a man is, the more he'll register to me as masculine, and the more I'll physically be attracted to him. This is very much a physiological reaction I have that's separate from whether I even like the dude or not, considering that I've found myself in situations before where I'll be physically attracted and get wet from a man I absolutely cannot stand character and interaction wise.
It's a good thing that it's my head and not my body who decided whom I sleep with. [:D]

As far as getting turned on by menial chores, or punishment goes, it's all got to do with exactly how I'm set to do it. In order for it to be a sexual turn on, I need to actively feel controlled while doing it.
Scrubbing the floor as an employee, whose told to do so by their boss, does not turn me on.
Scrubbing the floor as a vanilla wife, who cleans the floor just because it's part of her half of the housework, does not turn me on.
Scrubbing the floor in a D/s relationship, because it's part of my chores, without involvement of the D-type, does not turn me on.
Scrubbing the floor because, at some point I was told to scrub the floor to a specific standard, and I know that it randomly will be checked if that standard is met, and I punished if it hasn't been, will get me turn on.

However, to achieve that last mental state, I need:
- the expectation that the floor be scrubbed come from the D-type
- the standard by which the task is completed to come from the D-type
- the knowledge that my work may or may not be inspected at random intervals
- the knowledge that I will be punished in a way that is unpleasant to me, and I would choose to avoid, if I fail to meet the standard at any time

All those things combined, make that scrubbing the floor becomes an instance where I'm continuously reminded of his control, and therefore his "otherness", his masculinity; which in turn makes me feel acutely vulnerable and feminine, which then results in me being turned on.

The task itself doesn't matter for this cycle at all. It can be replaced with just about anything and generally have the same effect. However, some things will provide a sharper contrast than others (being told to scrub the floor from my knees has a stronger effect than being told to use a mop) and will thus result in being more or less erotic, respectively.

If I'm managed a certain way, I really do get into a headspace where my entire existence is "being turned on" all day long, for days, if not weeks at a time. However, considering how much input this requires from the D-type, it's a hard goal to reach and maintain over any length of time, and absolutely impossible to do unless he happens to have kinks that are so in line with mine that he gets turned on by doing exactly that which I need for me to attain that headspace.





Karnikula -> RE: Analyzing D/s relationships bit by bit. (8/4/2012 2:15:47 PM)

That was so ****ing informative and clear and *mindgasm*.

Thank you very much you have been incredibly helpful, exactly what I was looking for.
(also quite arousing ...)


p.s.: I like your signature, here another quote:

Bück dich! Befehl ich dir.
Wende dein Antlitz ab von mir.
Dein Gesicht ist mir egal.
Bück dich! Noch einmal.

It's easier to quote rammstein of you know most their songs by heart and your mothertongue is german !




littlewonder -> RE: Analyzing D/s relationships bit by bit. (8/4/2012 2:28:44 PM)

Ok, so basically you were looking for the push/pull everything is erotic type of relationship. You could have just said that and we wouldn't have posted. lol




Karnikula -> RE: Analyzing D/s relationships bit by bit. (8/4/2012 2:34:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

Ok, so basically you were looking for the push/pull everything is erotic type of relationship. You could have just said that and we wouldn't have posted. lol



No I was not. But she, from her point of view (and I'm looking for ALL points of view) made a very clear post about how her D/s works from her point of view (regarding to my questions).

Edit: push/pull? everything is erotic type of relationship? Are those two different things who merge together and somehow describe the above post or is that one and the same?

I haven't seen these terms used before, mind explaining them to me?




UllrsIshtar -> RE: Analyzing D/s relationships bit by bit. (8/4/2012 2:35:02 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Karnikula

It's easier to quote rammstein of you know most their songs by heart and your mothertongue is german !


My mother tongue is Dutch, but my comprehension in German is strong enough that I understand and know all they lyrics by heart (though I don't speak German aside from some touristy crap).
It was really surreal seeing them live in Denver a couple months ago and being just about the only one singing along. Not at all what I'm used to from when I've seen them in Europe.




littlewonder -> RE: Analyzing D/s relationships bit by bit. (8/4/2012 2:39:28 PM)

those are my own terms and how I describe UllrsIshtar's relationship. They push and pull at each other to get what they both want in the relationship. And from what I've read she does things because there's some kind of force and consequences to her actions that make cleaning the floor erotic to her. It's not service for the sake of service.




UllrsIshtar -> RE: Analyzing D/s relationships bit by bit. (8/4/2012 2:48:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

It's not service for the sake of service.



lw is right about that.
I don't do service for the sake of service.
I might serve him sometimes in a vanilla context because I'm his wife and love him and just do stuff for him; but that kind of service he provides me with as well, because he's my husbands and loves me.

However, I don't do BDSM type service for the sake of service.
You either dominate me, in which case I'll obey you. Or you don't dominate me, in which case I'll ignore you at best when you try to boss me around.
I don't serve people, including my partner, just because they happen to identify as a D-type and my role happens to be akin to that of an s-type.




UllrsIshtar -> RE: Analyzing D/s relationships bit by bit. (8/4/2012 3:05:24 PM)

Also, I think the reason that lw defines my relationship as a push/pull is because I only obey/submit if there is something in it for me.

In my case, that "something" is actively being made to feel controlled. If I don't get that, I don't feel like I'm getting anything from being in a D/s dynamic, and therefore don't see any point in doing it.
At that point, it just seems like a whole bunch of selfless effort with me getting nothing in return.

However, I strongly believe that just about all s-types only submit because there is something in it for them. It's just that most s-types seem to get their "it" much more out of a sense of satisfaction of serving in a way that appears selflessly. It is in "selfless" service that they find their satisfaction, and therefore get their "something" that they want out of the relationship to make it feel fulfilling and not just a bunch of extra effort for no return.

However, because their "something" seems to be much less driven from the D-type (though I don't think it is at all) it often seems like they are much less demanding of their D-types, and have far less expectations of the D-types role in the relationship than I do. In the end, I think that's completely an illusion though, because I believe that if the service for the sake of service types would end up in a relationship where they don't get their need for selfless service fulfilled, they'll be as miserable as I am in a relationship where I'm expected to serve selflessly.




littlewonder -> RE: Analyzing D/s relationships bit by bit. (8/4/2012 3:13:44 PM)

I think you're right although I can't say for myself that if Kana wasn't my Master I would stop doing what I do. I would still serve him even if one day he got hit over the head and ended up as a submissive personality lol. For me it's just the proper way for how I live my life because of my cultural background and it keeps me sane and stable.

But yes, for most if there wasn't those expectations they have of a Dom they would no longer submit.




UllrsIshtar -> RE: Analyzing D/s relationships bit by bit. (8/4/2012 3:30:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

I think you're right although I can't say for myself that if Kana wasn't my Master I would stop doing what I do. I would still serve him even if one day he got hit over the head and ended up as a submissive personality lol. For me it's just the proper way for how I live my life because of my cultural background and it keeps me sane and stable.



That just means that dominance isn't necessarily the something that you're getting out of him.

But you are getting something out of him that makes you want to serve him, and not the next guy. It may be as simple as you guys having compatible values, goals and life views, but there is something that he's providing to you that if he stops providing will make you stop serving him.
It may not be something he actively has to work at doing; in fact, it's very likely that it's something that comes so naturally to him that it hardly seems like he's doing anything at all (just like your service to him comes so naturally to you that it doesn't really feel like you're doing anything special at all; and just like my relationship with my husband comes so naturally to me like I don't really feel like I'm doing anything at all). Naturally filling in each other's needs without it feeling like you have to put in a ton of work to do so seems to be the thing that makes great relationships work longterm.

However, if there isn't a "something" that he provides you with that you're getting out of the relationship which makes you selflessly serve him, it wouldn't matter if it was him at all. It could be any guy. Hell, you'd have been single and you would have fallen into flawless selfless service to the first guy you'd have met.
And not only do I think that Kana is too awesome and amazing a guy to discredit in any way his role in the "something" you're getting out of your service to him, I also think that you'd be rather miserable selflessly serving just any random guy of the street.

Serving may be very much ingrained in your personality to the point that you'll always do it, in whatever relationship you end up being in, with whatever man you end up being in a relationship with; but that doesn't mean that there isn't something very specifically you are getting out of the relationship which makes you serve the specific man you serve, instead of any random guy.
Considering that seems to be a self-evident fact, it also follows that if that something goes missing from the relationship, because the guy gets bonked on the head, or simple stops providing it, you will necessarily change your own patterns of behavior into the adaptation pattern you turn to when not being fulfilled (which is your case is full blown depression I would venture to guess from some of your previous posts).




littlewonder -> RE: Analyzing D/s relationships bit by bit. (8/4/2012 6:43:26 PM)

Love is why I do it. If he stopped loving me then yes, that would be the end but it's about the only reason I can think of why it would.




Karnikula -> RE: Analyzing D/s relationships bit by bit. (8/6/2012 9:15:05 AM)



Another try:

Relationship = Car.
D/s relationship = certain type of car.
Now what are the insides of that car? Of course it needs tires, seats, seatbelts, motor power, a solid frame to protect etc.

Different kinds of seats, motors etc. and how to use, maybe even install them have all been discussed.

But:

What can function as fuel of this car?
What do all these motors need substantially ?
What makes a seat a seat, under which circumstances does a seat-belt work ?

In order to drive a car, you do not need to know any of this, you just need the controls and knowledge how to use them, not the mechanics behind them. You need to be a car mechanic, designer, engineer to go on vacation with your family by car.

But it's certainly an advantage, when your car breaks down you can fix it, when you want to change a certain thing about your car, you understand what to do and how to do that.

Are my intentions clear now? I'm already very good at driving cars, I could already work as driving instructor - but I'm no car mechanic, engineer or designer - and it seems to be really hard to find any information on these subjects.




JeffBC -> RE: Analyzing D/s relationships bit by bit. (8/9/2012 2:14:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: topcat
If that's the 'Carolyn' I think it is (and it sure 'sounds' like her), after about 15 years of interacting with her (Online, and in RL), she's rarely wrong.

QFT LOL




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