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RE: An abortionist talks too much - 8/10/2012 6:17:31 PM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Rich... come on.... why are you taking this stance when you know its definitely not true.


Because it's my stance on the issue, Tazzy, whether the government agrees or not. 




The stance I was referring too was the bolded part, Rich.

quote:

I'm saying, in my own way, that the mother has the right to have the fetus out at any point in the pregnancy.


She does not have that right at any point during the pregnancy.

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RE: An abortionist talks too much - 8/10/2012 6:48:53 PM   
TheHeretic


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Ah.  I see where the communication is breaking then, Tazzy.  I believe that our rights are inherent, regardless of where government may stand on the issue at the moment.  You seem to be looking at this through a perspective that our rights are given by the government, rather than simply being recognized and guarded by it.

From the opening post:  (bold added)

quote:

To avoid any confusion, and for the benefit of anyone who hasn't encountered my views on the subject, I support a woman's right to choose an abortion right up to the moment we can just adopt out a preemie.   


I believe that women have the right I spoke of, Tazzy.  I also believe there is a right to euthanasia.  It's all part and parcel of a larger view about soveriegnty over our own bodies.

Does the government recognize that right as well as I would like?  No.

Better?

< Message edited by TheHeretic -- 8/10/2012 6:50:44 PM >

(in reply to tazzygirl)
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RE: An abortionist talks too much - 8/10/2012 7:25:55 PM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

Does the government recognize that right as well as I would like? No.


You lost me here. Can you explain?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: An abortionist talks too much - 8/10/2012 8:46:59 PM   
TheHeretic


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It means that the rights I believe are held by all, are not rights the government currently recognizes. Tazzy.  We ain't there yet.

If you don't see the distinction, it really is going to be paradigm thing.  Too hot to work on that one, tonight.

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RE: An abortionist talks too much - 8/10/2012 8:51:14 PM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LizDeluxe


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
By that argument, we should also ban knee surgery.


Don't ban it. Just over-regulate it. That seems to be your answer to all of society's other ills.



Nope. Just regulate it. The "over" regulate part is your "over" reaction, your typical "answer" to things you disagree with, rather than considering the points raised.

And we do regulate knee surgery--there are standards to follow before you can perform it.

But we don't ban it. So seems the "over" part is on your side.

(in reply to LizDeluxe)
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RE: An abortionist talks too much - 8/10/2012 9:07:41 PM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

It means that the rights I believe are held by all, are not rights the government currently recognizes. Tazzy.  We ain't there yet.

If you don't see the distinction, it really is going to be paradigm thing.  Too hot to work on that one, tonight.


Personally, I see both as an issue of viability. But thats just me.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: An abortionist talks too much - 8/11/2012 6:01:48 AM   
dcnovice


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quote:

Tell that woman who died from a perforated uterus from an abortion at Planned Parenthood in Chicago just how safe it is.

I'm not familiar with this story, but it sounds tragic.

I wonder, though: Would criminalizing abortion make a death like this less or more likely?

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RE: An abortionist talks too much - 8/11/2012 6:39:54 AM   
Fightdirecto


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice
quote:

Tell that woman who died from a perforated uterus from an abortion at Planned Parenthood in Chicago just how safe it is.

I'm not familiar with this story, but it sounds tragic.

I wonder, though: Would criminalizing abortion make a death like this less or more likely?

IMO, re-criminalizing abortion would make deaths from botched abortions more likely - because women aborting themselves with a wire coat hanger would become more likely or abortions by unlicensed "doctors" on someone's kitchen table would become more likely.


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(in reply to dcnovice)
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RE: An abortionist talks too much - 8/11/2012 6:54:56 AM   
Fightdirecto


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

FR
-- If abortion is indeed murder, should those who obtain or provide one be executed in states with the death penalty?

As I and others have commented before, hardly anyone in the anti-choice movement has called for execution or life imprisonment for the woman getting an abortion. They only call for the execution or life imprisonment of the doctor who performs the (legal) abortion, the nurse who assists, the receptionist who makes the appointment, the owner(s) of the hospital or clinic where the abortion is performed, the husband who drives the woman to the hospital or clinic - but never the woman getting the abortion.

They know better - too much political fall-out.

_____________________________

"I swore never to be silent whenever and wherever human beings endure suffering and humiliation. We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.””
- Ellie Wiesel

(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: An abortionist talks too much - 8/11/2012 7:10:49 AM   
TheHeretic


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So can we take that as your unequivocal support for everything the doctor in question had to say, Fight?

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RE: An abortionist talks too much - 8/11/2012 7:46:11 AM   
Fightdirecto


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

So can we take that as your unequivocal support for everything the doctor in question had to say, Fight?

My comments were made in response to other previous posters.

Regarding the doctor in the OP: He handled it badly. He should have just said: "I am calling the police. You are trespassing" and slammed the door in the anti-choice peoples' faces.


_____________________________

"I swore never to be silent whenever and wherever human beings endure suffering and humiliation. We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.””
- Ellie Wiesel

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: An abortionist talks too much - 8/11/2012 8:43:28 AM   
kalikshama


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quote:

I will NEVER advocate late-term abortion but, if women are so bent on doing this, I think more people should be aware that this may very well be an option.


I don't think it's a matter of being "bent" on getting a late term abortion but not getting information about birth defects until 15-22 weeks into the pregnancy or having been raped and being in denial about the pregnancy or other non-trivial factors that delay the decision making process.

The only study I could find was from 1988 and included women who had been pregnant for 16 or more weeks (viability occurs at 21-27 weeks), so I'm going to offer this anecdotal bit instead:

"The overwhelming majority of the 250 to 300 women a year who sought late-term abortions from Tiller had planned their pregnancies. They came to him heartbroken and afraid, carrying fetuses with malfunctioning kidneys, missing organs and syndromes certain to cause death in the womb or soon after birth. A much smaller number of late-term patients were rape and incest victims, sometimes very young girls. Some were directed to Tiller by prosecutors. "

Certain tests are not performed until as late as 22 weeks of pregnancy:

http://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/birthdefects/diagnosis.html

Second Trimester Screening

Second trimester screening tests are completed between weeks 15 and 20 of pregnancy. They are used to look for certain birth defects in the baby. Second trimester screening tests include a maternal serum screen and a comprehensive ultrasound evaluation of the baby looking for the presence of structural anomalies (also known as an anomaly ultrasound).

Maternal Serum Screen

The maternal serum screen is a simple blood test used to identify if a woman is at increased risk for having a baby with certain birth defects, such as neural tube defects or chromosomal disorders such as Down syndrome. It is also known as a “triple screen” or “quad screen” depending on the number of proteins measured in the mother’s blood. For example, a quad screen tests the levels of 4 proteins AFP (alpha-fetoprotein), hCG, estriol, and inhibin-A. Generally, the maternal serum screen is completed during the second trimester.

Anomaly Ultrasound

An ultrasound creates pictures of the baby. This test is usually completed around 18–20 weeks of pregnancy. The ultrasound is used to check the size of the baby and looks for birth defects or other problems with the baby.

Diagnostic Tests

If the result of a screening test is abnormal, doctors usually offer further diagnostic tests to determine if birth defects or other possible problems with the baby are present. These diagnostic tests are also offered to women with higher risk pregnancies, which may include women who are 35 years of age or older; women who have had a previous pregnancy affected by a birth defect; women who have chronic diseases such as lupus, high blood pressure, diabetes, or epilepsy; or women who use certain medications.

High resolution Ultrasound

An ultrasound creates pictures of the baby. This ultrasound, also known as a level II ultrasound, is used to look in more detail for possible birth defects or other problems with the baby that were suggested in the previous screening tests. It is usually completed between weeks 18 and 22 of pregnancy.

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