Aswad
Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JeffBC
So in that sense, I don't think I've dehumanized her. I've just shut off all the shoulds and should nots and let nature take it's course... as does she.
In other words, you've humanized her? 
Civilization tends to take us away from basic humanity and toward a domesticated state which I find a poor imitation.
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I can't quite figure out if that's the same or similar to what BitaTruble was describing or not. I kind of think not.
I'm inclined to agree that it's not.
Haven't tried being a table myself, though I have tried to be other things.
Changing how I perceive others has been something I've spent more time on by far, and with interesting results. Sometimes I take it crazy places I wouldn't go myself, which is a scary idea in itself, given where I do go naturally, but I use a safety net when I visit real psycho states of mind. Not always a good idea to let a temporary, alternate self be allowed to act without retaining a small part of the permanent self in the background to silently monitor behavior to bring you back if you are about to do something unfortunate, after all. If you change the mind and intend to change it back, you need a life line to make that happen.
Yes, I figure playing with these things may make one more susceptible to dissociation than the general population, as dissociation is something you actively cultivate and harness to be able to make it work. Studying the wierd things the mind can do without just going there is a bit like studying the effects of psychedelics without ever licking a stamp; an academic and distant approach that may offer superficial understanding, but not insight. To take a freaky example, you can't see how different the world looks to a person like Issei Sagawa without stepping inside his mind enough to take on his perceptions for a while, not that I'd recommend that as a starting point for anyone looking to experiment with perception.
I did mention having a fondness for exploring the extremes of the human mind, right?
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I kind of think it's how most guys just normally have sex and this is simply me overcoming my own scripts.
Actually, I'm inclined to think it's how most rapes happen. I could relate one example from the perspective of the aggressor (no, it wasn't me). You're in the sack with a girl, and decide to have a go at her rear. She doesn't want to and starts to resist, but not so much as to derail your train of thought, so you flip this juicy burger on her belly and pin those distracting arms. There's someone crying, but it doesn't matter, cuz you're having a good time and ride for home. There's no girl there anymore. Of course, from her perspective, this is fucking scary. It's not something she's used to, looking for or expecting. And with her earlier interest having evaporated, it's anything but comfortable.
Now, a sensible guy might pay attention to the signals along the way, or be able to actually bring her mind along into that space where this is fun, but surprisingly often, neither is the case and you end up with a sexual assault instead of "wow, why the fuck did I waste my time on those other guys?", which I tend to think is a shame. And it isn't an exclusively male phenomenon, either, just that guys seem more likely to end up aroused enough to let go when they should hold on and tend to be more fond of the power trip. Men aren't as likely to perceive it as being raped, have a bit more muscle with which to resist (although the social conditioning can make that more of a problem than a boon, as a guy can end up perceiving it as rape, yet also see it as wrong to stop the rape), and so forth. Social expectations are essentially that a man should enjoy being raped if it's by a woman, which has good and bad sides to it in terms of outcomes. Both genders extensively rationalize their own behavior as the aggressor.
Stranger rape is a pretty rare thing. Most rapes are variant normal behavior that ends up being displayed in the wrong context. I have rarely encountered or heard of a woman that didn't enjoy the behavior if it was exhibited in the right context. Or a man, for that matter. The problem occurs when one party slams on the brakes while the other party is revving up. The rape is when they disconnect and the aggressor ignores the fact that the train left the other party back at the station. Which works in some dynamics, but not with a "random stranger".
Seen this before with a guy that had a non-oral gf that had agreed to it if he pulled out. Come the time, the stupid fuck predictably forgot all about that and just went faster, racing to the finish line, grabbing her head to hold it in place cuz he didn't want to stop. I should of course claim it wasn't a hot thing to watch, but that would be dishonest. Just because I put ethical restraints on my own behavior doesn't change what I find hot. That's what we have all the kink framework for: consenting to putting the boundaries in a different place than the norm between the parties to that consent. With that and trust and so forth, there's places we can go that would normally be problematic that suddenly become mutually rewarding on the whole, even if there are moments that are not.
So, yeah, a lot of normal behavior for both genders is walking a fine line with a tendency to trip over the edge at times.
And some element of dehumanizing or objectifying one's partner is probably part of it, making people a means to an ends for a time.
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My imagination just isn't that good nor can I see any reason I'd like to see her in some other way than "miraculous". I kind of like that.
Yeah, I'd hold on to that.
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So that makes it no different than all the other ways I casually use her to achieve my aims or for my convenience.
Which was the point. It probably has no utility for anyone that's already there (e.g. you), but it can be useful for people struggling to get there, or people that explicitly eroticize this dehumanization (or, perhaps we should say utilization?) element. Preaching to the choir in this instance, apparently, which is good to know. For someone that isn't there yet, it can both be a taste (pun sort of intended) of the mindset, and an aid to getting there, like any other activity. The whole thing about it slowly dawning that "dang, this actually is more convenient, and why not?"
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She KNOWS how I see her.
This is good. Two lucky people. 
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I STRONGLY suspect I'm not talking about what you're talking about at all... but I also think I might be wrong or they may be related somehow.
Definitely related, I think.
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I'm almost expecting some amusing dialogue between Kana and littlewonder now.
*laughs* Best line in the whole post.
Much as I thought the rest of it was closer to par than usual, I'm going to have to agree with you there.
Something vaguely reminiscent of Shiniez' work about those two.
IWYW,
— Aswad.
_____________________________
"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.
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RE: Dehumanisation - 
Profile
Otherwise I'd want to do it pretty regularly.
RE: Dehumanisation - 
...ashtray, toilet bowl cleaner, couple others that I don't remember at the moment. We both enjoy such things because I feel of use to him and it means just not having to think, not having to worry about doing something incorrectly or anything at all. I get to just shut off my brain for awhile which is really nice when you are the type of person I am whose mind runs 24/7 and is hard to shut off. 
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