RE: Congressman Akin on legitimate rape (Full Version)

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DaNewAgeViking -> RE: Congressman Akin on legitimate rape (8/19/2012 8:29:43 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Which high school DID you go to? I think it would explain a lot if I knew...[:)]

PS... St Louis is all Democrat... however the county has had an increasing Republican population over the last twenty years…And the population of St. Louis county, which St Louis is not part of, is much larger than St Louis proper.

Butch

I did time at McCluer, in the Ferguson-Florissant R2 District (north county), and if you think schools are war zones today, it was every bit as bad back then, only 'school violence' was not on the radar in the 50s and 60s.

As for city-county, true, they rarely speak civilly to each other, but my '88 countries' remark includes the county. Dem or Radical, there is an ugliness of spirit in that whole region. I lived there for a while in the 90s down around Kingshighway and Chippewa (central west side), and it was every bit as cold and alien then as in the past.

It's not about St Loser, however. It's about the hateful, isolationist mentality which festers there, and is spreading nationwide.
[sm=beatdeadhorse.gif]



kdsub -> RE: Congressman Akin on legitimate rape (8/19/2012 8:35:46 PM)

quote:

McCluer


This explains all and your views on the area...you should have gone to Kirkwood...better football team too. Our schools are great and so is our conservative city… we just shoot our councilmen and women thats all.

Butch



vixenkneels -> RE: Congressman Akin on legitimate rape (8/19/2012 9:51:55 PM)


DaNewAgeViking...I SO totally agree with you. I'm a transplant from California 30 years ago. I now live in the Great State of Misery surrounded by bible thumping idiots, anti-women politics and hypocritical people. Am am so appalled by Akin's "misspoken" (LAUGHS) ide0alogoy I am almost ashamed to admit I am from Missouri. Yet...His elected opponent Claire McCaskill isn't all that good even though I am what most would ccall a bleeding heart liberal. But my political association isn't the subject. What do you expect from a State that allows a bust of Rush Limbaugh to be placed in a Hall of Fame in our capitol...Jefferson City???

I'm so sick of the anti-woman politics and the "misspoken" agendas of all politicians but when the state I live in has an idiot like this that makes national news makes me think it's time to leave. I'm one of probbly a small minority that feels being forced to vote forced for the lesser of two evils is just not right. I will voet for Mickey Mouse before I vote any of the tickets



DaNewAgeViking -> RE: Congressman Akin on legitimate rape (8/19/2012 10:29:38 PM)

Hello Vixen,

Lake of the Ozarks, eh? Lovely country - shame there are so many neanderthals running loose down there. The picture I am getting is that the country is being torn apart into two camps: the modern Progressive/Liberal communities mainly on the coasts, and the throwbacks in mostly rural states in the South and Midwest. Seeing the absolutism of the Radicals, I don't see how this can end short of violence. The situation today is disturbingly similar to how it was in the late 1850s - right before the Civil War.

BTW, when you get tired of the mouth breathers, I can recommend Washington state - the 'wet side' (coast and Puget Sound) is lovely country with loads of social activities, and public policy still cares about human beings. Good luck...
[sm=afraid.gif]



tweakabelle -> RE: Congressman Akin on legitimate rape (8/20/2012 3:22:08 AM)

The danger of laughing at Akin, according to Illyse Hogue in The Nation:

[...] whether or not Akin loses this cycle, his comments have already escalated the stakes. In his world view, the rape victim's body will be the ultimate judge of whether a crime has taken place. If she gets pregnant, by Akin's standard, her reproductive organs consented to the pregnancy, so she must have consented to the sex. This bizarre standard of innocence is reminiscent of medieval Europe, where the men in authority held the similarly scientific view that women guilty of witchcraft floated in water while innocent women would drown. Being cleared of witchcraft was of course not much consolation to the drowned women, though they at least got to skip being burned at the stake.

http://www.thenation.com/blog/169451/danger-laughing-todd-akin



Politesub53 -> RE: Congressman Akin on legitimate rape (8/20/2012 3:43:30 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u
This man actually holds elected office ?


Thats the scary part Mike, that folks keep voting for people with this type of thinking.



Owner59 -> RE: Congressman Akin on legitimate rape (8/20/2012 4:22:16 AM)

 
I know this wasn`t a mis-speak.This is really how this shmuck thinks.....as does many in his party.

For years now,in the long debate about abortion....our extremist-cons have been claiming that many of the women seeking an abortion(or morning after pills) after being raped (or an incest victim) are lying about their rapes.....in order to seek the procedure.

That they weren`t in fact attacked and forced but rather had consensual sex and therefore shouldn`t get one.

Or............will lie about being raped, if all abortions are outlawed, with only the rape/incest exception left as legal.

Oh they`re smarter than us and got us all figured out.These republicans are know-it alls and know better than all.

Our holier than tho,arrogant smarty-pants republicans are trying to out-fundie the other.......which produces the most extreme declarations and comments.

But when normal...moderate Americans hear them......they rightly get upset.

Normal folks should keep in mind that this extreme rhetoric is common place between conservatives.

So every once in a while,the extremism leaks out into the mainstream.

There are quite a few extremists like "Santorum" who don`t even care if the women was raped.......that the  victim MUST bear their attacker`s child.....no matter what.



kalikshama -> Petition: Tell Rep. Todd Akin: Stop lying about rape (8/20/2012 7:44:40 AM)

Sign the petition
(After you sign, there's a link to FaceBook.)

This is outrageous even for a Tea Party Republican.

Congressman Todd Akin, a member of the House and a Tea Party Republican Senate nominee, said that survivors of "legitimate rape" have biological defenses against pregnancy:
"First of all, from what I understand from doctors [pregnancy from rape] is really rare... If it's a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down." 1

This is not only an outright falsehood, but it's an offensive attack on women.

Tell Rep. Todd Akin: Stop lying about rape, and apologize to women.

[image]https://act.credoaction.com/images/campaigns/Unacceptable_180.gif[/image]

In fact, according to the American Journal of Obstetricians and Gynecologists "rape-related pregnancy occurs with significant frequency" and over 32,000 pregnancies each year result from rape. 2

Suggesting that women who become pregnant as a result of rape are not "legitimately raped," is outrageous and shows an utter lack of understanding of the basic principles of human biology But it's not simply an isolated comment by a dangerously ignorant politician. And it's not the first time Republicans in the House have tried to "redefine" rape.

In 2011, Rep. Akin co-sponsored Rep. Chris Smith's bill to redefine rape. The purpose of the bill was to limit the number of survivors of rape and incest who could receive federally funded abortion care under existing law by changing the definition of rape to "forcible rape." That bill was so outrageous that even the extreme anti-woman majority in the House had to back down in the face of public opposition. 3

Tell Rep. Todd Akin: Stop lying about rape, and apologize to women.

Rep. Akin's utterly offensive remarks may be beyond the pale, but they are not isolated. They are part of a pattern of attacks led by Tea Party Republicans against women in this country. We have to push back, and we have to push back hard. We will not let them redefine rape. We will not let them continue their attacks on women's health.

Tell Rep Todd Akin that his statement that survivors of "legitimate rape" have biological defenses against pregnancy is not only an outrageous falsehood, but it's offensive and dangerous. He needs to stop lying about rape, and apologize to women.

Becky Bond, Political Director
CREDO Action from Working Assets

Sign the petition: http://act.credoaction.com/campaign/akin_lying/

1. Evan McMorris-Santoro, "Republican Senate Nominee: Victims Of 'Legitimate Rape' Don't Get Pregnant" Talking Points Memo, Aug. 19, 2012.
2. ibid.
3. Evan McMorris-Santoro, "Report: Republicans Give Up On Redefining Rape" Talking Points Memo, Feb. 3, 2011.

Sign the petition: http://act.credoaction.com/campaign/akin_lying/



DarkSteven -> RE: Congressman Akin on legitimate rape (8/20/2012 9:31:51 AM)

"If it's a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down. But let's assume maybe that didn't work or something. I think there should be some punishment, but the punishment ought to be on the rapist."

1. The idea of "legitimate rape" implies that a lot of reported rapes aren't rapes at all, but nasty women trying to get innocent men in trouble.
2. The idea that women's bodies, during rape, shut down the baby-making machinery is preposterous. The Dems might be able to get some traction from the idea that men who are clueless about women's bodies are driving legislation about them.
3. The "maybe there should be some kind of punishment, perhaps" sounds soft on rapists (which would be a great campaign slogan) and totally compassionless toward the rape victim.



kdsub -> RE: Congressman Akin on legitimate rape (8/20/2012 9:56:38 AM)

Steven

I am a realist...gets me in trouble here often but I believe things should be said as they are and not as we would like them to be.

The statements by Akins will... NOT... change anyone’s mind on abortion or make them change their voting preference.

People have pretty well decided how they stand on abortion and those who are anti will agree with Akins and forgive his miss-speak and those who are pro will disagree…and there will be no change in their votes.

Butch



Hillwilliam -> RE: Congressman Akin on legitimate rape (8/20/2012 11:02:45 AM)

Know what's really scarey about this guy? He's on the "Committee on Science, Space and Technology".


SCIENCE??? and he comes out with asswipe like this?



mnottertail -> RE: Congressman Akin on legitimate rape (8/20/2012 11:03:54 AM)

Thank god, now we can get the real skinny on dinasaur burgers and the flintstones.



Lucylastic -> RE: Congressman Akin on legitimate rape (8/20/2012 11:17:10 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Steven

I am a realist...gets me in trouble here often but I believe things should be said as they are and not as we would like them to be.

The statements by Akins will... NOT... change anyone’s mind on abortion or make them change their voting preference.

People have pretty well decided how they stand on abortion and those who are anti will agree with Akins and forgive his miss-speak and those who are pro will disagree…and there will be no change in their votes.

Butch



Sadly, ignorance is tenacious, which is why many do see it as a war on women....and have done for the past year and a half.
Education, and fighting the ignorance in power is the ONLY way to win against assholes such as Akin and his "arrogant and ignorant believers".




kdsub -> RE: Congressman Akin on legitimate rape (8/20/2012 11:30:09 AM)

I believe the vast majority of antiabortionists can and will separate Akins theory on pregnancy from his basic message… That taking the life of an innocent unborn child, even if the result of rape, is wrong and that life must be protected.

This is not ignorant or arrogant nor a war on women…it is just a different basic point of view….A point of view that is supported by millions of women I may add.

To you and I it is wrong and yes we need to change minds and hearts…but calling these people names will not help.

Butch



Lucylastic -> RE: Congressman Akin on legitimate rape (8/20/2012 11:40:54 AM)

I dont believe that accepting such beliefs is ok tho Kd, especially when its ignorance that drives it.
Religious views are one thing..... making laws for others that disagree with those views is completely another.
And I sure as hell am not going to lay down and accept that this is something that shouldnt be tackled and women should just take it.
Fight or Flight.... yeah I know which I choose.




Marc2b -> RE: Congressman Akin on legitimate rape (8/20/2012 11:54:55 AM)

quote:

Not really...except for the bit about the woman’s body...What he said is consistent with the beliefs of millions. They believe even if the life was conceived through rape it is still life and it does no good to take a life on top of the rape.

It is not bullshit if 100, 000,000 or so believe it is the way things should be.

Myself I think a rapists forfeits the right to pass on his genes but something cannot be radical or idiotic with that many people agreeing with a position.


The number of people who believe in something has no bearing on whether or not that something is idiotic or not.



kdsub -> RE: Congressman Akin on legitimate rape (8/20/2012 11:58:37 AM)

quote:

I dont believe that accepting such beliefs is ok tho Kd, especially when its ignorance that drives it


As this discussion applies to Akins I agree... but I cannot agree that ignorance applies to the majority of those against abortion…even as it applies to a rape victim.

As one who would advise my daughters not to get an abortion, but would support them if they decided otherwise, I would hope they had a choice in the case of rape.

So bottom line I am pro choice but do understand the heart felt feelings of antiabortionists....At least those that don't spout bullshit for political gain.

Butch



Marc2b -> RE: Congressman Akin on legitimate rape (8/20/2012 12:04:51 PM)

quote:

2. The idea that women's bodies, during rape, shut down the baby-making machinery is preposterous. The Dems might be able to get some traction from the idea that men who are clueless about women's bodies are driving legislation about them.


Just speculating here.

I'm wondering if he hasn't got something I heard somewhere (science magazine, discovery channel, something like that) ass backward in his head... the fact that women are more likely to conceive if they orgasm during or shortly after intercourse. Since women usually don't orgasm while being raped, he may be thinking that they are less likely to conceive as a result. There may be some truth to that but, of course, the relevant words are more likely and less likely... not possible and impossible.




I've been racking my brain trying to figure out what would constitute an "illegitimate rape." I can't figure out anything. It sounds like a disqualification in some sicko Olympic event on Bizzaro World.



kdsub -> RE: Congressman Akin on legitimate rape (8/20/2012 12:05:17 PM)

quote:

The number of people who believe in something has no bearing on whether or not that something is idiotic or not.


I'm afraid it does...there is no lack of thought and common sense in their stance and too many intelligent people... both religious and not...who think this way.

What is idiotic is ignoring the fact that the majority of people on this earth agree that unregulated abortion is morally wrong.

I agree with you they are wrong in their view, I just cannot agree they lack thought on the subject.

Butch



Politesub53 -> RE: Congressman Akin on legitimate rape (8/20/2012 12:24:59 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I believe the vast majority of antiabortionists can and will separate Akins theory on pregnancy from his basic message… That taking the life of an innocent unborn child, even if the result of rape, is wrong and that life must be protected.

This is not ignorant or arrogant nor a war on women…it is just a different basic point of view….A point of view that is supported by millions of women I may add.

To you and I it is wrong and yes we need to change minds and hearts…but calling these people names will not help.

Butch



No Butch, it isnt wrong, it is all the things you have said it isnt. Its ignorant, its arrogant and its a war on women. Whatever anyone views on abortion, and mine are pro choice, it cant be right to suggest forcing women who have been raped to carry a constant reminder for nine months. Such women have enough to deal with without bigoted anti abortionists adding to it. It doesnt matter that, as you claim, millions of women support it, they have no right to force other women to go through with giving birth, let alone carrying the child for nine months. They do, however, have the right to decide what to do if they and only they, become pregnant.

It staggers me that almost all of those insisting a women must not have a termination are the ones who shout loudest about freedom of choice for everything else.



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