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Watching what you say - 6/11/2006 11:22:36 AM   
rose442


Posts: 60
Joined: 5/26/2004
Status: offline 		I guess I do have to start a new thread on this. As someone mentioned earlier in another thread that is going. When I post on any subject here on the forums I reread what I wrote and make sure that I try to find what is spelled wrong or worded poorly. So that I do not get someone jumping my a** for messing something up. That is BS. Wwe come here to learn about the lifestyle and meet new people. Not get an English grade from the critics. Why has it turned out to be that way? And like was mentioned earlier, when Wwe post here it is because sometimes Wwe are emotional. And when in that state, do Wwe care if a word is spelled wrong? I will answer that. NO. It is the contents that is written that counts. Right?

I did not start this new thread to take away from the "tolerance among us" thread. I did this to respect the OP there and not get a heated argument interrupting her question. She deserves healthy responses just like everyone else.

rose442.... just did spell check to be safe. Smiles

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RE: Watching what you say - 6/11/2006 11:32:14 AM   
slavejali


Posts: 2918
Status: offline
quote:

Wwe come here to learn about the lifestyle and meet new people. Not get an English grade from the critics. Why has it turned out to be that way?

Some people have a spelling and grammar kink, we must be tolerant of them, they are people too

Do your best, then, don't worry, be happy.

And of course, it's the contents that matter.

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RE: Watching what you say - 6/11/2006 11:36:36 AM   
awhisper


Posts: 39
Joined: 6/6/2006
Status: offline 		Good for you rose442,
Sometimes we need a fresh thread anyway...Thanks for your refreshing input. i agree that we are not here for grammar and spelling purposes...not to mention we do not all have the same learning curve. If i belittled everyone that had issues with spelling, i'd be doing myself and them an injustice. Some of the most intelligent people i've met had issues in this area...What we lack in one area we make up for in other areas. Thanks for the nonjudgmental line of discourse.

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RE: Watching what you say - 6/11/2006 11:48:47 AM   
Littlepita


Posts: 1430
Joined: 10/6/2005
Status: offline 		I certainly agree that we need to be respectful of all posters and that we need to remember that not everyone is able to spell or use proper grammar. Because it is not one of my strengths, I type most of my post in either a Word document that has all the grammar functions clicked or I use a spell check I have on my Google toolbar.

I think that since we are a community that relies on the written word we need to do our best to spell words correctly and use right grammar. If done poorly, it makes the post harder to understand, and the poster might not get the answers they are wanting. It’s unfortunate that we judge that way, but thems the facts.



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RE: Watching what you say - 6/11/2006 11:55:27 AM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline 		Hi rose. If I met someone that could not spell very well, or had poor grammar, that would not have anything to do with whether or not they could be my friend. It would not have anything to do with whether or not they were a good and loving person. If I came across someone in the middle of the Mojavi desert that said, "Hey mister, I done went and wrecked my car and ain't got no way to get help", I would not respond with "Get away, grammatical felon! Speak properly or perish!".
 
Grammar and spelling matter. So do other things, like honesty, and love, courage.
 

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RE: Watching what you say - 6/11/2006 12:02:33 PM   
ScooterTrash


Posts: 1407
Joined: 1/24/2005
From: Indiana
Status: offline 		I agree with you to a point, but there are some messages that appear to have been posted by a 1st grader, or worse actually. It is difficult to take someone serious when their post is that bad. Certainly we all make the occasional typo or misspelled word and I agree that is excusable, but to make so many mistakes that deciphering the post is difficult...that just screams "make fun of me". Actually, those messages make me wonder if their "curtain climber" didn't get on the computer and I certainly can't take it serious. Not certain which posts you were talking about specifically, but I saw one this bad over the weekend.

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RE: Watching what you say - 6/11/2006 12:07:27 PM   
NakedOnMyChain


Posts: 2431
Joined: 11/29/2004
From: Indiana
Status: offline 		I like to be accurate and precise when possible.  That's one of my quirks, I guess.  I also admit that I like to see a well thought out and properly spelled post.  With that said, I'm not completely anal about other people's grammar.  Everyone makes mistakes, and usually they're reasonable.  I don't get bent out of shape when someone slips up.  The posts that bother me are the ones where you can tell that the person made no effort at all to be precise.  It generally leads to my misunderstanding of the post at hand, or disinterest in it.  The way I see it, if it's important enough to take the time to write a post about, it's important enough to make sure your message is clear.  A heinously misspelled and gramatically incorrect message usually communicates two things to me:  The poster doesn't care enough about what they wrote to make sure he/she is understood, and the poster didn't take the time to really think through what they are saying, thus detracting from their message.  As with everything in life, there are exceptions, but I've noted this to be the norm.

Edited to add:  The posts that I state bother me are the ones where you can tell the person in question has the ability to post correctly and just didn't use it.  Obviously those with learning disabilities, those with English as a second language, and certain others are held to a different standard. 

< Message edited by NakedOnMyChain -- 6/11/2006 12:10:23 PM >

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~The Cure

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RE: Watching what you say - 6/11/2006 12:09:04 PM   
darkinshadows


Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline
I have to say - I am dyslexic.  But I work hard not to allow that interfere with my typing.  I check what I write - I edit.  I even use a spell checker and a dictionary at times.  Why?  Because I have the patience to, as well as a word fetish.  And if someone spells badly, or their grammar is repeatingly bad - that says to me they cannot be bothered - to me it indicates laziness.  I understand there are different degrees is word blindness - and there are other disabilities that people have that do not assist them, but I at least try to make the effort.  And if I can find the time to work, bring up a family, submit, post on a message board, and keep house (yesyes - great aren't I?  thats me - goddess) - I am sure that someone who cannot be bothered to type so I can read - and has the audacity to badly type something thats attacking someone/something - I will not bother getting to know that person.
 
Words are just words - but there is still an action behind them.  And that is what I am reading.
 
Peace and Rapture


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RE: Watching what you say - 6/11/2006 12:09:19 PM   
amayos


Posts: 1553
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: New England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rose442

I guess I do have to start a new thread on this. As someone mentioned earlier in another thread that is going. When I post on any subject here on the forums I reread what I wrote and make sure that I try to find what is spelled wrong or worded poorly. So that I do not get someone jumping my a** for messing something up. That is BS. Wwe come here to learn about the lifestyle and meet new people. Not get an English grade from the critics. Why has it turned out to be that way? And like was mentioned earlier, when Wwe post here it is because sometimes Wwe are emotional. And when in that state, do Wwe care if a word is spelled wrong? I will answer that. NO. It is the contents that is written that counts. Right?



I understand your overall point, but I feel differently about the manner in which one puts his or her thoughts to words. Just as one conveys his presence in social company with good manner and dress, so too should one strive to cloth himself in the best words to represent his intellect and mannerisms in internet-based exchange. It speaks somewhat of one's seriousness and attention to detail, I feel. This is not to say the occasional typo or lack of perfectly technical punctuation should be viewed harshly, but when nearly every other word is mutated almost beyond recognition due to laziness, rushing, or—dare I say—a dreadful lack of intelligence, it does reflect poorly upon not only the poster, but the respect they have for the very company they keep in these meetings of the minds.

Consider, if you will, the very nature of the interests which bring us together here. As servants, we should be no strangers to discipline, and as those who accept that service, we should be familiar with reaching for what is supernal in the human animal. Why then, should gross sloppiness, ignorance of basic etiquette, and overall stupidity be invited and sanctioned on our boards, without so much as a mild scold? We of all people should understand the virtue of knowing how to say things correctly, being that our lifestyles often pay very close attention to that.


[Note: Edited for a spelling error!]

< Message edited by amayos -- 6/11/2006 12:19:45 PM >

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RE: Watching what you say - 6/11/2006 12:20:18 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		Personally, as long as your post conveys your ideas and communicates what you want it to I am not going to flame it for misspellings and poor language usage. I do not judge someone's intellect necessarily based on such things.

I will say that in life people will judge others in a written format on the way they communicate with words. If Iwas talking to you in real life and I said a sentence such as .."Oh f*** that bit**, she aint gots no right to be here"... That would reflect on my verbal language skills. You may or may not want to be around me based on how I communicate to you. But I doubt people go up to others on the street and ridicule them face to face with how they speak. I do not understand why they do it on the internet.

It seems to me that those who are literate should be more thankful that they are this way and not ridicule those who are not. Most people have no concept of how blessed they are to be in a place and time where the written word and information is in abundance, and their ability to understand the written word may be ubiquitous in their surroundings, but it is not that way for all of us. More people worldwide are illiterate than are literate... they should feel lucky they are a literate person, because their ass could have been born in the Congo and never have read a book or live until they became an adult even.

It may affect how those view your information if you deliver it poorly, but it shouldn't be something that people ridicule you about either.

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 6/11/2006 12:21:55 PM >

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RE: Watching what you say - 6/11/2006 12:21:35 PM   
marieToo


Posts: 3595
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Jersey
Status: offline 		General reply:

This subject is a real pet peave of mine.  First of all there can be an entire myriad of reasons that a person could be a bad speller.  Spelling is mostly a matter or seeing a word and remembering how it is spelled; especially in English, because so many words are not spelled phonetically.  If you read enough you will see many words and eventually memorize their spelling.  Spelling is mostly visual memory.  Then the words that *are* spelled phonetically,  can be mispelled by persons who may have a hearing impairment.  Also everyone learns differently; some are visual learners, auditory learners, kinesthetic learners. And everyone has their own strengths. Those who learn more easily visually, are better spellers than those who do not.  It doesnt make them more intelligent than a poor speller.   Im a pretty decent speller, not perfect, but probably better than most, and for the life of me, I cant seem to get past a 6th graders level of alegebra.   You may find someone who cant spell to save their own ass, but who can figure out how to take an engine apart and put it back together.  There are reputable attorneys and surgeons and bond traders who have secretaries that have to spell for them, because *they* suck at it.  There are people with PHDs who cant spell. You may find someone who spells like a champ, but cant figure how a wrench works, or how to make a relationship work, or cant balance their own friggin checkbook.
The "spelling card" is usually a card that is played by someone when they disagree with the poor speller on a specific issue, and have nothing else to rip on them for.   I have also noticed that the ones who think they are grammatical geniuses, just because they spell well, would truely be ripped apart for punctuation errors and sentence structure if their writings were scrutinized by a *real* English scholar. Its just another form of snobbery used by snobs in order to make themselves feel superior, when in reality the poor speller has them over a barrel on the subject matter.  

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RE: Watching what you say - 6/11/2006 12:24:45 PM   
BlkTallFullfig


Posts: 5585
Joined: 6/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Level
I would not respond with "Get away, grammatical felon! Speak properly or perish!".
 
Grammar and spelling matter. So do other things, like honesty, and love, courage.
     
Perfect!   Sometimes people here really do respond like you've spit in their milk if you don't behave (im)properly haughty.  
I think everyone should make self understandable, but beyond that, it's not that serious.   M

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RE: Watching what you say - 6/11/2006 12:30:00 PM   
MistressLorelei


Posts: 997
Joined: 11/7/2005
Status: offline 		Using spell check and re-reading your posts to see that they are as intact as possible does not seem unreasonable to me.  Each day, I put on clean clothes, when I could wear dirty ones. I brush my hair  and shower when I don't technically 'have' to.  I am the same person either way... but it's how I want others to perceive me, and more importantly, how I wish to perceive myself. 

If I am homeless and have no way to wash... please understand, but when I have the choice to not have dirt on my clothing,  and I have the ability to see that my hair is brushed, and I am showered, what does it say about me when I choose not to do these things?

I think what most who harp on grammar hope for is for people to make an effort.  If you don't value yourself or others enough to make an effort, you can't complain that others may not value what you are saying.  However, I do disagree with the rudeness and name calling of others for any reason.

< Message edited by MistressLorelei -- 6/11/2006 12:40:32 PM >

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RE: Watching what you say - 6/11/2006 12:33:49 PM   
marieToo


Posts: 3595
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: amayos

quote:

ORIGINAL: rose442

I guess I do have to start a new thread on this. As someone mentioned earlier in another thread that is going. When I post on any subject here on the forums I reread what I wrote and make sure that I try to find what is spelled wrong or worded poorly. So that I do not get someone jumping my a** for messing something up. That is BS. Wwe come here to learn about the lifestyle and meet new people. Not get an English grade from the critics. Why has it turned out to be that way? And like was mentioned earlier, when Wwe post here it is because sometimes Wwe are emotional. And when in that state, do Wwe care if a word is spelled wrong? I will answer that. NO. It is the contents that is written that counts. Right?



Why then, should gross sloppiness, ignorance of basic etiquette, and overall stupidity be invited and sanctioned on our boards, without so much as a mild scold? We of all people should understand the virtue of knowing how to say things correctly, being that our lifestyles often pay very close attention to that.


[Note: Edited for a spelling error!]


"Gross sloppiness" and "ignorance of etiquette" can be corrected if someone chooses to do so.  "Overall stupidity", Im afraid cannot be changed by a "mild scold".   Nor can snobbery for that matter.


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RE: Watching what you say - 6/11/2006 12:34:08 PM   
Gauge


Posts: 5689
Joined: 6/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

When I post on any subject here on the forums I reread what I wrote and make sure that I try to find what is spelled wrong or worded poorly. So that I do not get someone jumping my a** for messing something up. That is BS. Wwe come here to learn about the lifestyle and meet new people. Not get an English grade from the critics. Why has it turned out to be that way? And like was mentioned earlier, when Wwe post here it is because sometimes Wwe are emotional. And when in that state, do Wwe care if a word is spelled wrong? I will answer that. NO. It is the contents that is written that counts. Right?


You are correct that content is, in fact, the most important.

The one reason that people will criticize someone on a message board or email is because the Internet is largely a print oriented media. Clarity of communication is a basic need that some do not care to observe. Content is important but when you cannot understand what someone is saying due to Internet abbreviations, poor sentence structure, bad grammar, poor spelling or misplaced and incoherent logical progression of ideas, then they are open to get themselves harped on for it.

Grammar Nazi's will come crawling out of the woodwork on any board or email group. If that is the only thing they have to contribute to a thread then that is fairly weak especially if they use it as a response when they have been outdone by someone else and that is their only recourse.

Don't get upset too much over these people, for the most part they are harmless, at worst they are an annoyance.

< Message edited by Gauge -- 6/11/2006 12:36:11 PM >

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RE: Watching what you say - 6/11/2006 12:36:41 PM   
NakedOnMyChain


Posts: 2431
Joined: 11/29/2004
From: Indiana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo

Those who learn more easily visually, are better spellers than those who do not.  It doesnt make them more intelligent than a poor speller.   Im a pretty decent speller, not perfect, but probably better than most, and for the life of me, I cant seem to get past a 6th graders level of alegebra.   You may find someone who cant spell to save their own ass, but who can figure out how to take an engine apart and put it back together.  There are reputable attorneys and surgeons and bond traders who have secretaries that have to spell for them, because *they* suck at it.  There are people with PHDs who cant spell. You may find someone who spells like a champ, but cant figure how a wrench works, or how to make a relationship work, or cant balance their own friggin checkbook.


True.  But how about the people who have the resources at hand (dictionary, spell check, smart friend, etc.) to correct their spelling and grammar, yet don't use them?  That's where the issue really lies.

quote:

The "spelling card" is usually a card that is played by someone when they disagree with the poor speller on a specific issue, and have nothing else to rip on them for.


I have yet, in the year-and-a-half I've been here, to see that be the case.  If you'd like to enlighten me with specific examples, I will be happy to admit I'm wrong.

quote:

Its just another form of snobbery used by snobs in order to make themselves feel superior, when in reality the poor speller has them over a barrel on the subject matter. 


Have you ever heard the phrase "You'll catch more flies with honey"?  Apparently not.

_____________________________

"Oh, it's torture, but I'm almost there."
~The Cure

"I ask for so little. Just fear me, love me, do as I say, and I will be your slave."
~The Labyrinth

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RE: Watching what you say - 6/11/2006 12:38:22 PM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Personally, as long as your post conveys your ideas and communicates what you want it to I am not going to flame it for misspellings and poor language usage. I do not judge someone's intellect necessarily based on such things.

I will say that in life people will judge others in a written format on the way they communicate with words. If Iwas talking to you in real life and I said a sentence such as .."Oh f*** that bit**, she aint gots no right to be here"... That would reflect on my verbal language skills. You may or may not want to be around me based on how I communicate to you. But I doubt people go up to others on the street and ridicule them face to face with how they speak. I do not understand why they do it on the internet.

It seems to me that those who are literate should be more thankful that they are this way and not ridicule those who are not. Most people have no concept of how blessed they are to be in a place and time where the written word and information is in abundance, and their ability to understand the written word may be ubiquitous in their surroundings, but it is not that way for all of us. More people worldwide are illiterate than are literate... they should feel lucky they are a literate person, because their ass could have been born in the Congo and never have read a book or live until they became an adult even.

It may affect how those view your information if you deliver it poorly, but it shouldn't be something that people ridicule you about either.


Because they can't get punched in the nose over the internet.

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RE: Watching what you say - 6/11/2006 12:41:27 PM   
MySweetSubmssive


Posts: 1139
Joined: 2/7/2006
From: Lehigh Valley, PA
Status: offline 		Writing and grammar and articulate expression are very important to me.  I think that the general expectation of communication online is very ... relaxed, something akin to wearing grungy sweatpants and not bathing for company.  Personally, I dislike the notion that we don't have to make an effort for one another.  And while I've been told that I am elitist for caring about writing and presentation, I believe that poor writing generally has to do with a laziness rather than a lack of education (most of us learned grammar in the seventh grade), dyslexia, or being a non-native English speaker (who, in my experience, generally write better than Americans). 

Is the way someone writes more important than what they have to say?  It counts for a lot, because it tells me something about that person. 

Amayos, stunning photographs. 

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RE: Watching what you say - 6/11/2006 12:46:58 PM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo

General reply:

This subject is a real pet peave of mine.  First of all there can be an entire myriad of reasons that a person could be a bad speller.  Spelling is mostly a matter or seeing a word and remembering how it is spelled; especially in English, because so many words are not spelled phonetically.  If you read enough you will see many words and eventually memorize their spelling.  Spelling is mostly visual memory.  Then the words that *are* spelled phonetically,  can be mispelled by persons who may have a hearing impairment.  Also everyone learns differently; some are visual learners, auditory learners, kinesthetic learners. And everyone has their own strengths. Those who learn more easily visually, are better spellers than those who do not.  It doesnt make them more intelligent than a poor speller.   Im a pretty decent speller, not perfect, but probably better than most, and for the life of me, I cant seem to get past a 6th graders level of alegebra.   You may find someone who cant spell to save their own ass, but who can figure out how to take an engine apart and put it back together.  There are reputable attorneys and surgeons and bond traders who have secretaries that have to spell for them, because *they* suck at it.  There are people with PHDs who cant spell. You may find someone who spells like a champ, but cant figure how a wrench works, or how to make a relationship work, or cant balance their own friggin checkbook.
The "spelling card" is usually a card that is played by someone when they disagree with the poor speller on a specific issue, and have nothing else to rip on them for.   I have also noticed that the ones who think they are grammatical geniuses, just because they spell well, would truely be ripped apart for punctuation errors and sentence structure if their writings were scrutinized by a *real* English scholar. Its just another form of snobbery used by snobs in order to make themselves feel superior, when in reality the poor speller has them over a barrel on the subject matter.  


Marie, you offer some good examples in your post; one of which is the "mechanic". My best friend of 20 years had trouble reading, and couldn't spell his way out of a wet paper sack, but he could fix damn near anything mechanical you put in front of him. And even apart from the mechanical skill, he wasn't a stupid person by any means.

(in reply to marieToo)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Watching what you say - 6/11/2006 12:47:23 PM   
marieToo


Posts: 3595
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NakedOnMyChain

quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo

Those who learn more easily visually, are better spellers than those who do not.  It doesnt make them more intelligent than a poor speller.   Im a pretty decent speller, not perfect, but probably better than most, and for the life of me, I cant seem to get past a 6th graders level of alegebra.   You may find someone who cant spell to save their own ass, but who can figure out how to take an engine apart and put it back together.  There are reputable attorneys and surgeons and bond traders who have secretaries that have to spell for them, because *they* suck at it.  There are people with PHDs who cant spell. You may find someone who spells like a champ, but cant figure how a wrench works, or how to make a relationship work, or cant balance their own friggin checkbook.


True.  But how about the people who have the resources at hand (dictionary, spell check, smart friend, etc.) to correct their spelling and grammar, yet don't use them?  That's where the issue really lies.

quote:

The "spelling card" is usually a card that is played by someone when they disagree with the poor speller on a specific issue, and have nothing else to rip on them for.


I have yet, in the year-and-a-half I've been here, to see that be the case.  If you'd like to enlighten me with specific examples, I will be happy to admit I'm wrong.

quote:

Its just another form of snobbery used by snobs in order to make themselves feel superior, when in reality the poor speller has them over a barrel on the subject matter. 


Have you ever heard the phrase "You'll catch more flies with honey"?  Apparently not.


Apparently it's not exactly your forte either,  honey.

Oh and about the attacking people for spelling on CM.  Ive seen it in at least 3 threads this week.  If its of interest to you, then do more reading on the threads.  You'll find its quite rampant.

(in reply to NakedOnMyChain)
Profile   Post #: 20
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