RE: Before you grill it, ya gotta kill it

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amaidiamond -> RE: Before you grill it, ya gotta kill it (9/2/2012 11:06:13 AM)
quote: Animals being mistreated makes me sick, no doubt. I just wonder how humane treatment can be reconciled with "until we kill and eat you". For me, I see no need that just because we intend to eat something that it should suffer. I believe in all living beings being respected for what they are. I keep a bearded dragon - I live feed him locusts. I keep the locusts in a large tank with fresh veg, cardboard to climb on, bran as substrate - I give them the best life I can before Rhuu eats them. I choose to live feed because whilst I can get canned bugs I have no idea how they were killed and with Rhuu it's instant, literally less than a second.

needlesandpins -> RE: Before you grill it, ya gotta kill it (9/2/2012 11:06:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pissdoll quote: ORIGINAL: needlesandpins i'm all for better living, and culling process', but i don't need sanctamony to tell me i'm wrong for eating meat. i designed for it, i evolved eating it. hence why my stomach grumbles everytime i smell it cooking actually humans evolved during an ice age, so we were evolved and designed for foraging for nuts and berries, and yes...eating meat when the tribe was fortunate enough to catch and kill it. sweetie, it could be argued that as long as there are ice caps we are still in the ice-age. but take a look at your teeth, and how your gut is designed. humans eat meat no matter where they live. and fyi, the colder the climate the more meat is eaten. good luck finding veggie in the icecaps. needles

marie2 -> RE: Before you grill it, ya gotta kill it (9/2/2012 11:08:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub Years ago, we raised some pigs. I would scratch their bellies, sit and smoke a joint and sing to them, just loved them to pieces. Then they got huge and were taken to slaughter. That I wouldn't be able to handle.

tj444 -> RE: Before you grill it, ya gotta kill it (9/2/2012 11:11:33 AM)
you know, when i was a kid and deciding what kind of food to eat, i believed that vegetables and fruit were living beings (like the critters) that just couldnt speak.. perhaps when i bit into an apple it suffered and screamed inside but I just couldnt hear it.. how do we know that vegs and fruit dont feel? So I didnt even want to eat them but since there was no pill i could take that would give me what i nutritionally needed, i decided to eat vegs and fruit and not eat meat/critters.. What is ethical to eat? vegs and fruit that cant scream? or cant think? insects that cant scream? or cant think? fish & seafood that cant scream? or cant think? dogs & cats & horses (eaten in some cultures) that can scream? can they think? cows, pigs, chickens that can scream? can they think? is it ethical to eat fish but not pigs? how "dumb" does something have to be to be ok to eat? what about critters that eat other critters? is it unethical for a bear to eat a fish or a rabbit when it could eat only berries instead? if its not then why would it be unethical for people to eat critters? if people werent made to eat meat then our bodies would not tolerate eating meat..

pissdoll -> RE: Before you grill it, ya gotta kill it (9/2/2012 11:19:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: needlesandpins quote: ORIGINAL: pissdoll quote: ORIGINAL: needlesandpins i'm all for better living, and culling process', but i don't need sanctamony to tell me i'm wrong for eating meat. i designed for it, i evolved eating it. hence why my stomach grumbles everytime i smell it cooking actually humans evolved during an ice age, so we were evolved and designed for foraging for nuts and berries, and yes...eating meat when the tribe was fortunate enough to catch and kill it. sweetie, it could be argued that as long as there are ice caps we are still in the ice-age. but take a look at your teeth, and how your gut is designed. humans eat meat no matter where they live. and fyi, the colder the climate the more meat is eaten. good luck finding veggie in the icecaps. needles did i say humans were not meant to eat meat? humans were not designed to eat meat in the vast amount that americans choose to consume. if you had to run an antelope or other animal to death (which is what our bodies evolved to do...as we have skulls designed to cushion the impact of hard running and we can sweat, run and cool at the same time while most other animals cannot) you would NOT be eating steaks for breakfast, lunch and dinner, let alone on a daily basis. i'm not an advocate for veganism, however with the obesity epidemic in this country especially affecting children who are malnourished and can expect to live shorter lives than their parents, moving to a considerably higher plant based diet rather than meat with every meal is essential to proper health and nutrition. signed, "sweetie" aka food scientist

JstAnotherSub -> RE: Before you grill it, ya gotta kill it (9/2/2012 11:19:51 AM)
Most awesome post LaT!

doctorgrey -> RE: Before you grill it, ya gotta kill it (9/2/2012 11:21:02 AM)
I used to be a vegan, for ethical reasons, then realised that there is no way that one would ever be able to change farm, slaughter and marketing practices driven my the huge conglomerates. So bearing this thread's tiels in mind: First you Catch it, then You Grill it!..... I shall try that, with a 'fast food' twist. This evening I shall be setting afire any stray infant on the estate, chasing it til it drops, and helping myself to a medium rare thigh. Nom DrG

tj444 -> RE: Before you grill it, ya gotta kill it (9/2/2012 11:25:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse Still, I do believe animal protein is an important part of a health diet. Regardless of whatever argument vegans come up with to the contrary. Especially during brain development years. I believe this also, there are certain nutrients that are in meat and you cant get it in only veggies.. i do eat a little meat, not much.. but if you exercise a lot then i think you do need a little more too..

Delilya -> RE: Before you grill it, ya gotta kill it (9/2/2012 11:26:33 AM)
I find that I eat less and less meat as I age. Not that I have a problem with it, I just don't crave it the way I did when younger.

needlesandpins -> RE: Before you grill it, ya gotta kill it (9/2/2012 11:28:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pissdoll quote: ORIGINAL: needlesandpins quote: ORIGINAL: pissdoll quote: ORIGINAL: needlesandpins i'm all for better living, and culling process', but i don't need sanctamony to tell me i'm wrong for eating meat. i designed for it, i evolved eating it. hence why my stomach grumbles everytime i smell it cooking actually humans evolved during an ice age, so we were evolved and designed for foraging for nuts and berries, and yes...eating meat when the tribe was fortunate enough to catch and kill it. sweetie, it could be argued that as long as there are ice caps we are still in the ice-age. but take a look at your teeth, and how your gut is designed. humans eat meat no matter where they live. and fyi, the colder the climate the more meat is eaten. good luck finding veggie in the icecaps. needles did i say humans were not meant to eat meat? humans were not designed to eat meat in the vast amount that americans choose to consume. if you had to run an antelope or other animal to death (which is what our bodies evolved to do...as we have skulls designed to cushion the impact of hard running and we can sweat, run and cool at the same time while most other animals cannot) you would NOT be eating steaks for breakfast, lunch and dinner, let alone on a daily basis. i'm not an advocate for veganism, however with the obesity epidemic in this country especially affecting children who are malnourished and can expect to live shorter lives than their parents, moving to a considerably higher plant based diet rather than meat with every meal is essential to proper health and nutrition. signed, "sweetie" aka food scientist we can swop skills all day if you like. a degree in agriculture, horticulture and animal husbandry. numerous horse qualifications that also deal with biology and nurition. not to mention all the food and nutrition training i get every year due to my job. the fact is you were saying that we were designed to forage during an ice-age. we weren't. the colder the climate, the more meat we eat. simple. child obesity is due to the processed shit they eat not the amount of meat they eat. child sit and 'veg' out because parents are too bloody lazy to make sure they exercise. my son eats alot of meat, as do i, and he's exceptionally healthy. yes we should eat more veg, but the sanctomonious crap that is put over from some vegans and vegetarians is not the way to go. yes animals should be looked after well and killed humanely, but i won't be told i'm wrong for eating them. needles

LaTigresse -> RE: Before you grill it, ya gotta kill it (9/2/2012 11:32:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pissdoll did i say humans were not meant to eat meat? humans were not designed to eat meat in the vast amount that americans choose to consume. if you had to run an antelope or other animal to death (which is what our bodies evolved to do...as we have skulls designed to cushion the impact of hard running and we can sweat, run and cool at the same time while most other animals cannot) you would NOT be eating steaks for breakfast, lunch and dinner, let alone on a daily basis. i'm not an advocate for veganism, however with the obesity epidemic in this country especially affecting children who are malnourished and can expect to live shorter lives than their parents, moving to a considerably higher plant based diet rather than meat with every meal is essential to proper health and nutrition. signed, "sweetie" aka food scientist I just want to address the bits I bolded. If indeed people were eating steak this often, there would likely be a lot less obese people. It is because we (collective) eat too much refined, plant based, foods and spend too much time sitting on our asses in front of our electronics, that we are obese. Perhaps if we spent more time actually outdoors, growing our foods, preparing our foods, we would be less obese. Most people I know can not even afford to feed their families meat once a day, let alone all three meals. If they do, it's likely because they are farmers and it is cost effective for them to do so. Let's face it, a bowl of cold cereal for breakfast is less expensive than bacon and eggs. A bowl of Kraft mac and cheese is less expensive than even a cheap steak and a salad.

ChatteParfaitt -> RE: Before you grill it, ya gotta kill it (9/2/2012 11:32:12 AM)
Using FR: I have a favorite saying: If we're not supposed to eat animals, why are they made out of meat? It's a joke !! Everything on this planets kills something else to stay alive. If you don't eat meat, than you eat plants. Personally, I'm never going to get how killing plants to eat is somehow more "righteous" than killing animals, but perhaps that's just me. In my mind, everything on this planet serves a purpose and is worthy of being here, and yes, even the "bad" things. Do I think animals raised for the slaughter should be treated more humanely? Yes, I do. I think plants should all be grown organically. I think many, many things that I (most likely) will never see come to pass in my lifetime. One of the most important things I think is that what has been killed so you can eat, you must thank the gods for it. Whichever gods you prefer. The point is to thank the fish or the chicken or the spinach or the rice for giving it's life for you. For completely the life cycle. For realizing you live only b/c some fish died. That's my spiritual take on it. It's not one I expect anyone to agree on, though I will point out most every culture in the world has a prayer ritual for the appreciate of one's food.

doctorgrey -> RE: Before you grill it, ya gotta kill it (9/2/2012 11:34:37 AM)
I went to school once. I also have a theory about diet & lifestyle and whatnot. There seem to be an awful lot of 'lifestylers' in modern society who have an incredible urge to 'stay fit', 'work out', and 'look after themselves' in such a way that they spend a lot of time (and indeed money) in the gym, in the park or on the track on bikes or in 'the gear' so that they look thier best and have a body to be proud of. In doing so they consume an inordinate level of calories to maintain the lifestyle and physique. Trapped in a cycle of eat/excercise/ponce around. It's not necessary. Stop it. The farms will not have to produce as much to support you. Eat less... do something else with your time. DrG

pissdoll -> RE: Before you grill it, ya gotta kill it (9/2/2012 11:39:27 AM)
we absolutely were designed to forage. evolving during an ice age gave human bodies the essential tool of conservation. if you are so bothered by what vegans and vegetarians have to say, maybe you take it much more personally than is necessary. i eat a very small amount of meat, i have heard what they have to say and i don't take it to heart. it's not about me.

LaTigresse -> RE: Before you grill it, ya gotta kill it (9/2/2012 11:40:08 AM)
Tiz true. Nearly all of us eat far far too much.

needlesandpins -> RE: Before you grill it, ya gotta kill it (9/2/2012 11:51:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pissdoll we absolutely were designed to forage. evolving during an ice age gave human bodies the essential tool of conservation. if you are so bothered by what vegans and vegetarians have to say, maybe you take it much more personally than is necessary. i eat a very small amount of meat, i have heard what they have to say and i don't take it to heart. it's not about me. tell that to the inuits (sp) needles

SpaceSpank -> RE: Before you grill it, ya gotta kill it (9/2/2012 12:07:34 PM)
There are many cultures that eat FAR more meat than those of us in the USA. It's much more about the lifestyle and quality of the food than the diet itself.

LadyHibiscus -> RE: Before you grill it, ya gotta kill it (9/2/2012 12:08:44 PM)
I am an omnivore. Being sanctimonious about what we eat, and how much, is the biggest first world problem there is. I refuse to engage people in arguments of that sort.

doctorgrey -> RE: Before you grill it, ya gotta kill it (9/2/2012 12:15:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SpaceSpank There are many cultures that eat FAR more meat than those of us in the USA. It's much more about the lifestyle and quality of the food than the diet itself. Its about being manipulated by multinationals, but hey! I'm lovin' it DrG

MariaB -> RE: Before you grill it, ya gotta kill it (9/2/2012 12:18:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SpaceSpank The french tend to respect their food. They want the flavor to be the best possible. So they won't raise it the same way our big "the most volume we can get" factory farms do it. But I agree, I prefer the way they do it. But there's certainly some headway here to start shifting things that way. Just a long way left to get back to that. quote: ORIGINAL: pyschosubmission Personally I love the French attitude to food... The smaller and cuter than animal, the tastier I love a lot of the French attitude to food but hate their attitude to the way they raise many of their meat animals. We spend a lot of time in France and although food is expensive in comparison to English food, its tastier and a meal means sitting down with good company, a decent bottle of wine (which costs virtually nothing in France) and enjoying the many different flavors on offer but some of those flavors come at a cost and that cost is the welfare of the animal whilst being fattened for the pot. Foie gras is very popular in France and everywhere you go you will see signs pointing you in the direction of where you can purchase Foie gras duck or goose. The old fashioned type veal farms are still a big thing in France. Horses are routinely eaten, which I think is fine except a lot of those horses have been used hard in riding centers through the summer only to be butchered for their meat when horse riding becomes out of season. Shooting season is a nightmare because the French will shoot anything that flies past them including the smallest of bird which are often migrating. Among them are skylarks, song birds, swallows and swifts, thrush, blackbird and finches.

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