RE: Before you grill it, ya gotta kill it (Full Version)

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needlesandpins -> RE: Before you grill it, ya gotta kill it (9/2/2012 12:20:50 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

I am an omnivore.

Being sanctimonious about what we eat, and how much, is the biggest first world problem there is. I refuse to engage people in arguments of that sort.



you know Hibbie, the more i read today on this subject the more i see it like religion. i'm all for eat what you like. i really don't see why some think they have the right to shove their beliefs down my throat, or tell me i'm bad because i choose to be differnt to them.

needles




doctorgrey -> RE: Before you grill it, ya gotta kill it (9/2/2012 12:22:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: needlesandpins


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

I am an omnivore.

Being sanctimonious about what we eat, and how much, is the biggest first world problem there is. I refuse to engage people in arguments of that sort.



you know Hibbie, the more i read today on this subject the more i see it like religion. i'm all for eat what you like. i really don't see why some think they have the right to shove their beliefs down my throat, or tell me i'm bad because i choose to be differnt to them.

needles


but you are!

DrG




kalikshama -> RE: Before you grill it, ya gotta kill it (9/2/2012 12:31:13 PM)

quote:

That said, I am vehemently opposed to animal abuse, and yes I believe they deserve at least the quality of life they would have in the wild. I wish there was more I could do to improve the conditions in the food industry. If anyone has ideas, let me know.


Vote with your wallet. Patronize companies like Chipotles that are concerned about how animals are treated. http://www.chipotle.com/en-us/fwi/animals/animals.aspx

Also hold them accountable for how the workers who pick their tomatoes, etc are treated: http://www.change.org/petitions/chipotle-please-sign-the-fair-food-agreement

McDonald's made changes to their egg sourcing standards:

http://www.jivdaya.org/mcdonald_tells_farmers_to_treat.html

The McDonald's restaurant chain has launched a major effort to improve the way egg farmers care for their hens -- a move that reflects rising scientific and public concern over how farm animals are treated.

McDonald's Corp. sent letters to the farmers who supply the company with 1.5 billion eggs yearly outlining strict new regulations for raising hens.

The guidelines require 50 percent more space for each caged hen, ban the controversial practice of withholding food and water to increase egg production, and require a gradual phasing out of the "debeaking" that is common in the poultry industry.

The move -- the first of its kind by any major U.S. food supplier -- was prompted by a combination of factors, including pressure from animal rights activists and growing concern among government and academic scientists that current methods of caring for chickens may increase the risk for diseases that can be spread to humans. Analysts also called it a potentially profitable business move -- to win credit for taking a step that might otherwise be required by the government.

The action is the most far-reaching step in a trend that began in Europe and has recently begun to spread to the United States toward improving living conditions for all farm animals, for both ethical and public health reasons.

While the European Union has already banned practices such as the "forced molting" of hens and has required a phasing out of all chicken caging by 2012, U.S. authorities have moved more slowly and have relied more on industry recommendations.

Recently, however, the United Egg Producers (UEP), which represents many of the nation's suppliers, was handed recommendations on chicken living conditions by its scientific advisory committee very similar to those adopted by McDonald's. In addition, the Department of Agriculture is evaluating the raising of chickens that supply eggs purchased for federal lunch and other food programs.

Read more: http://www.jivdaya.org/mcdonald_tells_farmers_to_treat.html




kalikshama -> RE: Before you grill it, ya gotta kill it (9/2/2012 12:37:11 PM)

quote:

I would love to guarantee that every bite of bacon or hamburger was raised in a manner that parallels my morals of how a living feeling being should be treated. Unfortunately I simply cannot afford to. My finances are stretched to the max as it is.


I do spend more on meat but I make up the difference by eating out extremely rarely and never buying processed food. I buy grains in bulk. I get veggies and eggs from local farmstands. I only buy meat when it's on sale, and for the vast majority of the time, it's the cheapest cuts of chicken.

http://www.localharvest.org/

The best organic food is what's grown closest to you. Use our website to find farmers' markets, family farms, and other sources of sustainably grown food in your area, where you can buy produce, grass-fed meats, and many other goodies. Want to support this great web site? Shop in our catalog for things you can't find locally!




MariaB -> RE: Before you grill it, ya gotta kill it (9/2/2012 12:39:46 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: doctorgrey

I went to school once.

I also have a theory about diet & lifestyle and whatnot.

There seem to be an awful lot of 'lifestylers' in modern society who have an incredible urge to 'stay fit', 'work out', and 'look after themselves' in such a way that they spend a lot of time (and indeed money) in the gym, in the park or on the track on bikes or in 'the gear' so that they look thier best and have a body to be proud of.

In doing so they consume an inordinate level of calories to maintain the lifestyle and physique.
Trapped in a cycle of eat/excercise/ponce around.

It's not necessary.
Stop it.

The farms will not have to produce as much to support you.
Eat less... do something else with your time.

DrG


I also know people who never get off their asses and wouldn't dream of exercising and yet eat a huge amount of calories because eating has become a pastime.

Are you saying keeping fit is a bad thing? Its like all things, some people do it because its fashionable, some people do it because they become obsessed and some people do it because they want to be fit or its a bi product of something they love doing... cycling.... climbing etc. Most people who keep fit do not over eat. Most people who keep fit don't smoke and people who exercise are less likely to suffer from depression.






LaTigresse -> RE: Before you grill it, ya gotta kill it (9/2/2012 1:02:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

quote:

I would love to guarantee that every bite of bacon or hamburger was raised in a manner that parallels my morals of how a living feeling being should be treated. Unfortunately I simply cannot afford to. My finances are stretched to the max as it is.


I do spend more on meat but I make up the difference by eating out extremely rarely and never buying processed food. I buy grains in bulk. I get veggies and eggs from local farmstands. I only buy meat when it's on sale, and for the vast majority of the time, it's the cheapest cuts of chicken.

http://www.localharvest.org/

The best organic food is what's grown closest to you. Use our website to find farmers' markets, family farms, and other sources of sustainably grown food in your area, where you can buy produce, grass-fed meats, and many other goodies. Want to support this great web site? Shop in our catalog for things you can't find locally!


I understand. I don't even remember the last time I ate out. I am not in love with chicken, prefer beef and pork.

Love farmer's markets but also, as I've learned, just because a farmerish looking person is standing behind a fold up table of tomatoes, doesn't mean they were the ones that grew them. More and more vendors as such things are purchasing produce from others and selling it more expensively than a person could get the same thing at grocery store. The farmer that runs around the Iowa City and Cedar Rapids area, selling 'grass fed' meat, sells it at a premium price. The quality is worse than the meat I've seen sold at the local Walmarts. In Washington Iowa there was a woman selling fresh peaches and apples. When pressed, she admitted had purchased them from orchards in Missouri, the same orchards that are selling the same produce to our local chain grocers. The only difference is that hers were much more expensive that those at HyVee.

Certainly, those can be viable options but consumers do need to do the research on the vendors at their local farmer's markets.

We are lucky with our grains and such. Because we have a large population of Amish around, they have their own grocery stores. Grains, nuts, flours, common spices and dry seasonings are much less expensive usually. However their canned goods are usually seconds and expired, and no less expensive. You can also get locally grown produce from them. They do not have an aversion to using chemicals so that must be taken into consideration.

Also, if a person is anti farm animal abuse, Amish purchases would not be at the top of my list. They own some of the largest, and worst, puppy mills in the state of Iowa.




culareD -> RE: Before you grill it, ya gotta kill it (9/2/2012 1:02:46 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

quote:

I would love to guarantee that every bite of bacon or hamburger was raised in a manner that parallels my morals of how a living feeling being should be treated. Unfortunately I simply cannot afford to. My finances are stretched to the max as it is.


I do spend more on meat but I make up the difference by eating out extremely rarely and never buying processed food. I buy grains in bulk. I get veggies and eggs from local farmstands. I only buy meat when it's on sale, and for the vast majority of the time, it's the cheapest cuts of chicken.

http://www.localharvest.org/

The best organic food is what's grown closest to you. Use our website to find farmers' markets, family farms, and other sources of sustainably grown food in your area, where you can buy produce, grass-fed meats, and many other goodies. Want to support this great web site? Shop in our catalog for things you can't find locally!


Ditto here...I like how you think Kalikshama!




kalikshama -> RE: Before you grill it, ya gotta kill it (9/2/2012 1:07:13 PM)

quote:

Love farmer's markets but also, as I've learned, just because a farmerish looking person is standing behind a fold up table of tomatoes, doesn't mean they were the ones that grew them. More and more vendors as such things are purchasing produce from others and selling it more expensively than a person could get the same thing at grocery store.


Ya, I have abandoned the local farmer's market for farm stands, where I see the fields behind the stand and the prices are much lower. I am grateful that I have this option. I also do a little container gardening at home for herbs and kale, and lots of gardening at Mom's. Anyone want any cucumbers? [;)]

Oh, I have to get back to my cucumber thread and thank everyone who offered suggestions.




LaTigresse -> RE: Before you grill it, ya gotta kill it (9/2/2012 1:10:49 PM)

You know what's really sad.........I try to give produce away. Apples, peaches, pears, etc......in bumper crop years. People won't take it. It's too much work. And I don't spray so it's not as 'pretty' as the stuff in the grocery store.

I am having a big sad this year......due to drought and heat, even my container veggies went to shit. I got about 5 tomatoes off of 8 plants. One smallish batch of peas. The orchard is barren. No peaches, no apples, no red raspberries.




AlphaBitch6547 -> RE: Before you grill it, ya gotta kill it (9/2/2012 1:12:20 PM)

Geezes Gawd......... Debeaking ........... the reason for that is to keep the hens from pecking.... animal rights activist can be so full of shit it isn't funny ..... I for one will not give up my meat fully. I love my steaks to be just done enough that it's hot and that a bad vet can bring it back to life... I eat to live not live to eat... I also love my fruits and veggies but there are some things that I will not put in my body........... Corn.... how many of you know that corn isn't corn anymore the industry has managed to cross it with the soy bean plant; don't ask me why but they have........ So corn oil isn't corn oil and corn really isn't corn anymore.... FYI a great many people of this nation are soy sensative so if you find that after eating that wonderful hot Lg McFry that your stomach is tied up in knots or you are running to the bathroom to shit your eye teeth out think about what those foods are either A) fried in or B) filled with or C) if they have a liquid soy bean oil...........

Hell let the chickens our in the damn yards and go pick the eggs up by hand and put more people to work and get rid of some of the machines create some damn jobs but then wait.. we are talking about American the laziest country in the world... Most American's won 't get off their asses to change a channel let alone actually do menial labor and learn what it really means to earn a living.

Give me a big Ol' hunk of Beef salted and peppered then chard on the grill and I'm the happiest redneck woman in Southeast Texas.




ARIES83 -> RE: Before you grill it, ya gotta kill it (9/2/2012 1:16:09 PM)

What I was saying in the other thread had,
nothing what so ever to do with eating meat
being moral or not...

I have seen more mistreatment of animals
than anyone should and yet I'm continually
surprised at how many new and efficient
ways people can think up to inflict cruelty and
suffering.

I eat meat, but I buy freerange chickens & eggs
it's not perfect but it's my first choice despite
the price.

There really needs to be a overhaul of a lot of
the practices used to bring meat to the table.

-ARIES




needlesandpins -> RE: Before you grill it, ya gotta kill it (9/2/2012 1:24:51 PM)

actually if you want to talk about the worst thing you can put in your body try rape seed oil products. or as is commenly known canola oil. it's being promoted as good for you but it's the shyte of the earth. it does so much damage to us in so many ways it's unreal. but it brings in big bucks, and the countryside looks pretty covered in yellow shit, so hey why not use what the huge corporations tell us to, even if it's killing our animals, and ruining our health.

needles




Baroana -> RE: Before you grill it, ya gotta kill it (9/2/2012 1:51:46 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: needlesandpins

actually if you want to talk about the worst thing you can put in your body try rape seed oil products. or as is commenly known canola oil. it's being promoted as good for you but it's the shyte of the earth. it does so much damage to us in so many ways it's unreal. but it brings in big bucks, and the countryside looks pretty covered in yellow shit, so hey why not use what the huge corporations tell us to, even if it's killing our animals, and ruining our health.

needles



Source?




needlesandpins -> RE: Before you grill it, ya gotta kill it (9/2/2012 2:18:23 PM)

tons of it all over the net, take your pic. also the horses we have lost to copd caused by it. the amount of people i know, including myself, that have been very ill while using it, but not when they stop. it is genetically modified, not native to the uk, was never supposed to be grown near to residential areas, is well known to cause allergies, has a low shelf like, breaks down very quickly into free radicals in the body, the long chain molecules are unstable. even in speads can produce hayfever and asthma sysptoms. the list goes on and on.

needles




Baroana -> RE: Before you grill it, ya gotta kill it (9/2/2012 3:15:49 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: needlesandpins

tons of it all over the net, take your pic. also the horses we have lost to copd caused by it. the amount of people i know, including myself, that have been very ill while using it, but not when they stop. it is genetically modified, not native to the uk, was never supposed to be grown near to residential areas, is well known to cause allergies, has a low shelf like, breaks down very quickly into free radicals in the body, the long chain molecules are unstable. even in speads can produce hayfever and asthma sysptoms. the list goes on and on.

needles



Well, based on about five minutes of googling, here is what I came across:

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/canola-oil/AN01281
http://www.rd.com/health/the-great-olive-oil-misconception-dr-ornish-responds/
http://www.fda.gov/Food/LabelingNutrition/LabelClaims/QualifiedHealthClaims/ucm073992.htm

I'm no expert, and I'm open to seeing your contrary evidence. Based on what I read from these seemingly qualified sources, however, canola oil is not poison. It's not even the same thing as rapeseed oil.




needlesandpins -> RE: Before you grill it, ya gotta kill it (9/2/2012 3:34:53 PM)

canola is gentically engineered from rapeseed. has been since the 1960's. i can't be arsed to look it all up. do it yourself if you are so interested. like i said, there is plenty of it out there. just because someone tells you something is healthy doesn't mean it is. now i know that works the other way around too, but i also know how it has affected the people, and animals around me too. it's bloody hiddeous stuff.

needles




DeviantlyD -> RE: Before you grill it, ya gotta kill it (9/2/2012 4:36:10 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub

Another thread took an ugly turn, from being bitten by a turkey to the cruelty of eating animals.

With apologies for quoting Ted Nugent for the title of this one, what say any of you?

We have eaten meat since (or maybe before) we discovered fire. The end result of any animal raised for food is, they die. Does it really matter what happens before then? Nicer living conditions? Being petted? Maybe if you want to eat meat, you have to raise your own?




Personally I wouldn't make any apologies to that nut Ted Nugent, but that's another thread.

Yes it matters because the way animals are treated in factory farming is cruel and inhumane.

There are those who subscribe to the idea that the spirit/energy of the living animal is infused in every cell of the that animal's body and that if its life has been traumatic and inhumane that spirit/energy is infused in the flesh of that animal that you eat and in that regard is less healthy. Whether you believe it or not, as SpaceSpank indicated, the taste of humanely raised animals is better than those from factory farms.



quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

I do believe animal protein is an important part of a health diet.



What makes you believe animal protein is different than plant protein?



quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

She is saying you can't kill a chicken embryo because it has a right to grow up and enjoy life. Apparently the same doesn't hold true for a child.



That isn't how I interpret it. Her t-shirt represents her viewpoint of choices. Her choice might be to have a child if she were pregnant. You don't know. Her choice to not eat a "chicken embryo" is also a choice.


There is a school of thought that indicates if human beings were true omnivores, they would eat meat raw.

For all of the self-righteous, sanctimonious posters who voice whatever excuses make themselves feel good, I feel pity for you.

The bottom line for me is that I am not going to impose my dietary choices on anyone. But I do feel strongly that those who eat meat should know where their food comes from and how that animal was treated in the process. I wonder how many would choose their current way of eating if they could see how the animals they eat were treated.




LadyHibiscus -> RE: Before you grill it, ya gotta kill it (9/2/2012 4:39:50 PM)

One of my friends has a women's shooting & hunting list on Facebook. Someone wrote to her and said that she shouldn't hunt, there was plenty of food to be had in the grocery store!

Most people have NO idea where their food comes from or how it got there.




SiegFaust -> RE: Before you grill it, ya gotta kill it (9/2/2012 4:43:59 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

One of my friends has a women's shooting & hunting list on Facebook. Someone wrote to her and said that she shouldn't hunt, there was plenty of food to be had in the grocery store!

Most people have NO idea where their food comes from or how it got there.

You mean their isnt a bacon tree [:o]. But Wilbur......omg I think I am going to be sick[X(]




Baroana -> RE: Before you grill it, ya gotta kill it (9/2/2012 4:45:03 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SiegFaust


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

One of my friends has a women's shooting & hunting list on Facebook. Someone wrote to her and said that she shouldn't hunt, there was plenty of food to be had in the grocery store!

Most people have NO idea where their food comes from or how it got there.

You mean their isnt a bacon tree [:o]. But Wilbur......omg I think I am going to be sick[X(]



Sounds to me like the point being made was that we should first eat the already dead animals before killing more. I can't say that's the worst idea I've ever heard.




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