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RE: Before you grill it, ya gotta kill it - 9/3/2012 10:37:53 AM   
Aynne88


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Joined: 8/29/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

I am craving a nice bloody rare, grilled steak.

Alas there isn't any in the deep freeze and I don't want to waste the gas in driving to town.

Last night we had fish for dinner. I didn't feel guilty about the fish dying so I could eat. I don't place the life of a beef steer as any more valuable than the life of a fish. That would be utterly hypocritical. A living being is a living being. I've got two horses. I believe that the US recently changed the laws allowing the slaughter of horses for human consumption. Before I sent my horses off to the fate I rescued them from, I would have them slaughtered by a butcher I trusted to do it properly. I could even eat it.

Perhaps it's just me. I've hunted. I've killed animals with my hands. I've had blood on my hands because of a living being's death. Rabbit isn't something I choose to eat as it's always been more work than it's worth. But yeah, I've shot, skinned, gutted and stewed. Life and death. It's part of the cycle.

I understand that it's not for everyone. I get that. I understand that some people are disgusted and appalled by the human consumption of meat and the way animals are often treated in our food supply system. To them I say, spend your money and live your lives the way you see fit. Condescend to me, talk down to me, treat me like some sort of evil criminal and I will say to you, in some form or other...."Fuck off!"



Groovy. When I see people refuse to acknowledge that their way of eating is abuse, killing the planet, and every fucking rare bloody steak you crave slaps the face of a tear stained starving child, I say "Fuck Off" right back.

To people that aren't appalled by the way animals kept in slaughterhouses are abused and NO life at all worth living., I say fuck off. I also say hypocrite.

I refuse to shut up. The animals need us. I also find people claiming to "love" animals (i.e. always and only pets) while shoving tendons and blood and pus and veins down their throats, I really say fuck off. Oh and then I hope they enjoy all the medical issues that come from eating a diet not meant for human consumption. I laugh when I see that fat little fuckers running around McDonald's because their lazy ass parents can't be bothered to do anything more creative than to feed their little grease stained children anything better than disgusting fast food. NO pity at all when they get diabetes, and heart disease.

Flesh eaters don't love animals. Stop telling yourselves that filthy lie. You might love pets, but if you understood the correlation that a pig is just as lovable, and intelligent as a dog, you'd stop lying to yourselves.

Sorry LaT, I know your fanbase loves it when you get all righteously fired up, but I truly feel I am on the side of right this time. And my fanbase can't speak for themselves. So I will for them. Stop eating sentient beings. Please. It's not a rare steak it's a fucking cow, who more than likely lived a short life of terror and a brutal slaughter. Just stop it.

_____________________________

As long as people will shed the blood of innocent creatures there can be no peace, no liberty, no harmony between people. Slaughter and justice cannot dwell together.
—Isaac Bashevis Singer, writer and Nobel laureate (1902–1991)



(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 121
RE: Before you grill it, ya gotta kill it - 9/3/2012 10:39:58 AM   
Aynne88


Posts: 3873
Joined: 8/29/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: DeviantlyD


quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar

So?

The vast majority of veggie eaters in Western society also eat cooked veggies.

Eating raw meat is something that has only very recently gone out of fashion. It therefore has no bearing on humanity's omnivore status.

Our food preference has changed, both in quantity, sort, as well as preparation method, more in the last 50 years than it has in all of human history combined. The fact that raw meat happened to have gone mostly out of fashion is no indication whatsoever on whether or not humans do in fact eat raw meat.



I'd be interested in seeing where this information (bolded) came from. Cooking meat has been around for centuries.

Actually it is likely that our ancestors going back to before the split that seperated us from chimps were omnivores because chimps are omnivores as well.

Cooking was one of the big advances that let us gain control of the world. It let our ancestors get more nutrition from food while killing pathogens. It is thought that cooking has driven the evolution of smaller jaws and teeth in humans which frees up skull space for an expanding braincase.

Eating raw meat was never common. Steak tartar and sushi are about the only historic examples.

The debate is more honest if it is centered on how frequently animal protein was part of our hunter gatherer ancestors diet and what bearingthat has on our diet today.


Thanks for reposting that but something tells me it's too full of facts and those with their heads in the sand won't read it becasue it proves we are NOT carnivores or really even omnivores.

_____________________________

As long as people will shed the blood of innocent creatures there can be no peace, no liberty, no harmony between people. Slaughter and justice cannot dwell together.
—Isaac Bashevis Singer, writer and Nobel laureate (1902–1991)



(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 122
RE: Before you grill it, ya gotta kill it - 9/3/2012 10:41:21 AM   
SpaceSpank


Posts: 244
Joined: 10/3/2010
Status: offline 		I've been to slaughterhouses, I've worked on a farm, I've killed my own food, seen it gutted and prepared.

I've seen all the horror show documentaries.

I still eat meat, so no... we would not all be vegan.

This world isn't fair to everyone. We are omnivores, we eat a bit of everything, it's how we evolved. There is no shame in eating meat. It does not make us "better" than another animal to consume them, it only means we are higher on the food chain.

The vast majority of everything we eat is alive. I find it rather funny that you propose we are equal to all living things, but you only extend that equality to the animal kingdom.
You're showing the same elitism you claim those who eat meat show.

If you think all living things are equal, then don't pick and choose the ones you are equal to. An animal is a plant is and insect is an animal. Don't pick favorites just because some look cuddlier than others.

Respect and appreciate where your food comes from, and work to have that respect extended to EVERYTHING you choose to eat. There are farming practices that are just as hostile to the environment as the "big beef" industry. Pesticides and fertilizers that run into the rivers and seep into water tables, slash and burn farming of delicate eco systems, unsustainable planting practices etc.

The "animal product" industries en masse are not the issue. Only a symptom of the larger issues. We're still pretty new at this whole thing, why not work to fix the actual problems instead?

(in reply to Aynne88)
Profile   Post #: 123
RE: Before you grill it, ya gotta kill it - 9/3/2012 10:46:11 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		No I won't stop eating meat. I applaud you your passion, but you can't convince you your way is right for everyone.

My family had a pet pig once. It's name was Ziffle. He tasted very good. While he was alive, he lived the life of Riley. One day my sister-in-law couldn't understand why a jug of body lotion she'd recently purchased was almost empty. That evening when she went down to feed the horses and Ziffle, he smelled oddly of roses. Apparently my daughter and her cousin thought Ziffle had dry skin.

As for the rare steak being a fucking cow. Actually no, it was a steer and it never really managed to fuck as it had it balls removed at a young age. I am quite aware of what all the animal bits I eat comes from. I can even most generally tell you what part of the animal. Sirloin versus a ribeye versus a rump roast.

How interesting that you compare meat consumption with being over weight and diabetes. Meat is something my pressman, a diabetic, can eat. Much of what vegans eat, he cannot.

Also, your crack about laughing at fat people....how classy. Especially as, the last time I saw your photos you are not exactly thin. Not that I am either, but pot meet kettle. Unless of course those photos are old.

Also, last I knew you were in the business of seafood sales. Unless I have you confused with another. I assume you feel it is acceptable to to drop a live lobster into a pot of boiling water. But less so to do the same to a cute little furry bunny?

As for me being fired up..........not in the slightest. I guess my mysterious fanbase will be disappointed.

< Message edited by LaTigresse -- 9/3/2012 10:52:07 AM >

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to Aynne88)
Profile   Post #: 124
RE: Before you grill it, ya gotta kill it - 9/3/2012 10:47:04 AM   
Aynne88


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Again ignoring what I said. ALL fucking animals. Warthogs, snakes, rats, bunnies, puppies, spiders. Get it? Plants? OMFG us vegans have heard that busllshit so many times. Silly beyond reply.

I am not a Welfare Vegan, trying to make slaughtering the best possible way like that moron Temple Grandin. I am an abolitionist Vegan, basically keep your fucking filthy human hands off of them for less than nobel purposes.

I rescue animals, you eat them. W will never see eye to eye and I am tired of talking to people excusing their greedy cruel wants for a goddamn lunch of someone's baby or mother with bullshit excuses.

I don't believe you watched "Earthlings." I have a hell of a bullshit detector and if you did see it you would definitely not call it a horror show. It's haunting beautiful and painful. They call it "The Vegan Maker." Want to discuss it? Right. Didn't see it.

_____________________________

As long as people will shed the blood of innocent creatures there can be no peace, no liberty, no harmony between people. Slaughter and justice cannot dwell together.
—Isaac Bashevis Singer, writer and Nobel laureate (1902–1991)



(in reply to SpaceSpank)
Profile   Post #: 125
RE: Before you grill it, ya gotta kill it - 9/3/2012 10:49:07 AM   
VideoAdminGamma


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As in anything, everyone is entitled to your beliefs but when you belittle the beliefs of others on a personal level it borders on breaking rules and guidelines. If you cannot post with that in mind, then do not post.

Thank you for being a part of CollarMe,
VideoAdminGamma

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Profile   Post #: 126
RE: Before you grill it, ya gotta kill it - 9/3/2012 10:54:11 AM   
Aynne88


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Joined: 8/29/2008
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I can't. I know too much and I am far too passionate on this. I can't stand by silently while what can only be compared to a holocaust is committed daily. So I need to go. This makes me sick and sad and I pray that these people evolve. And stop calling themselves animal lovers since they are anything but. So I am leaving the thread, it really isn't anything I can convince when people continue to believe an animal life is worthless and abuse is ok. just get me that burger and fries. :( I hope maybe one person's mind is changed and please please please watch "Earthlings." It's free, it's beautifully narrated, and it matters. To them, and to us.

_____________________________

As long as people will shed the blood of innocent creatures there can be no peace, no liberty, no harmony between people. Slaughter and justice cannot dwell together.
—Isaac Bashevis Singer, writer and Nobel laureate (1902–1991)



(in reply to VideoAdminGamma)
Profile   Post #: 127
RE: Before you grill it, ya gotta kill it - 9/3/2012 10:57:50 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		Have a lovely holiday afternoon Aynne.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to Aynne88)
Profile   Post #: 128
RE: Before you grill it, ya gotta kill it - 9/3/2012 10:58:06 AM   
ChatteParfaitt


Posts: 6562
Joined: 3/22/2011
From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
Status: offline 		As far back as post 32 I said this:


Everything on this planets kills something else to stay alive. If you don't eat meat, than you eat plants. Personally, I'm never going to get how killing plants to eat is somehow more "righteous" than killing animals, but perhaps that's just me. In my mind, everything on this planet serves a purpose and is worthy of being here, and yes, even the "bad" things.

I've love to hear an informed response.


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Profile   Post #: 129
RE: Before you grill it, ya gotta kill it - 9/3/2012 11:04:07 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		Chatte, as far as I can tell it's a mindset. Much like a religious fervor. Much like the far right politically.

The more they read what connects with their personal moral triggers, the smaller their lens becomes. Then the more they read/view/etc that only emphasizes those beliefs. To the point that anything, regardless of how factual, that suggests their belief system is less than perfect, is either ignored or argued almost to a point of crazy.

Still, I understand the core triggers.....but the over kill (no pun intended) becomes more than a bit too much.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to ChatteParfaitt)
Profile   Post #: 130
RE: Before you grill it, ya gotta kill it - 9/3/2012 11:11:28 AM   
SpaceSpank


Posts: 244
Joined: 10/3/2010
Status: offline 		Why is it silly?

There have been many many studies that show that plants feel stress. Many will actually react to pain in various ways. They are living things, and can be healthy, sick, reproduce, and die. The breathe, they drink, they eat. Some actually even eat insects and small animals. Some can even move.

So tell me, why is it silly to not give them the same respect as an animal? Because they don't all move around? They can't vocalize their discomfort? What point do you draw the line between a living thing you can kill and eat vs a living thing you do not?

I'm asking this seriously. Because you are here equating people that eat meat as essentially being like a Nazi (the holocaust metaphor you like to throw around). You claim those who eat meat are killing things... and yes, they do.
But so do you, you're just choosing to move the line of what you kill over and call everyone else a murderer. If you can't see the hypocrisy in that, then you are the one who is blind.

And no, I don't care if you choose to be a vegan, vegetarian, omnivore, or go the oppsite end and try and live as a total carnivore. That is YOUR life to do with as you choose.

Now, if you want animals to be treated better that is absolutely ok, and I agree. There is no reason for them to suffer, and there are plenty of more humane ways to kill them. And I prefer that as it has been shown that the better the quality of live the animal has, the better overall quality what we get from them is. That's generally true for flavor and how healthy it is.

So fight for that all you want, you will find plenty of support even among the meat eaters around. But getting preachy and judgmental while going around calling people murdering baby killing nazi like monsters is not exactly going to get you much support.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aynne88


Again ignoring what I said. ALL fucking animals. Warthogs, snakes, rats, bunnies, puppies, spiders. Get it? Plants? OMFG us vegans have heard that busllshit so many times. Silly beyond reply.




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RE: Before you grill it, ya gotta kill it - 9/3/2012 11:18:00 AM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		Yes, LaT, she still works at a restaurant that serves seafood, and other animal products. She still wears makeup, too.

Temple Grandin is not a moron, either.

What can I say, it's a sad thing how animals are exploited and mistreated. It's a sad thing how humans are exploited and mistreated.





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[page 23 girl]



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RE: Before you grill it, ya gotta kill it - 9/3/2012 11:23:00 AM   
ChatteParfaitt


Posts: 6562
Joined: 3/22/2011
From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
Status: offline 		Society has built entire religious structures on the human inability to accept that every single time you sit down to eat, something died so you can live. This is why religious ritual requires a prayer, invocation, supplication (however you wish to term it) before consuming food. It's a time honored way to both appease the gods and gives thanks.

Why does a bunny have more value than a cow? Why does veal have more value than fish?

It's all a boondoggle so that polite society can forget humans are inhuman to other humans every second and every hour or every single day, all around the world. Humans are starving. Babies die for lack of medicine. Wars rage for oil and riches and someone's son or daughter dies or is maimed.


It's not that I don't care about animals, or plants. But, let's get our priorities straight. Let's fix the human problem first, folks. Railing about people eating meat is not terribly productive, JMO.

ETA: I just read your post, SpaceSPank. And I agree, of course plants feel stress. They also feel positive vibes. Every morning when I wake up, I start the tea water, then go to my porch to check on the plants. I say "Good morning my plants!" And I can feel the psychic smile. They radiant plant love. I know there have been studies done with plants and stress, perhaps someone better at searching than I can help us out?


< Message edited by ChatteParfaitt -- 9/3/2012 11:28:02 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 133
RE: Before you grill it, ya gotta kill it - 9/3/2012 11:35:55 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

Yes, LaT, she still works at a restaurant that serves seafood, and other animal products. She still wears makeup, too.

Temple Grandin is not a moron, either.

What can I say, it's a sad thing how animals are exploited and mistreated. It's a sad thing how humans are exploited and mistreated.




Indeed.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to LadyHibiscus)
Profile   Post #: 134
RE: Before you grill it, ya gotta kill it - 9/3/2012 1:04:11 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aynne88


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: DeviantlyD


quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar

So?

The vast majority of veggie eaters in Western society also eat cooked veggies.

Eating raw meat is something that has only very recently gone out of fashion. It therefore has no bearing on humanity's omnivore status.

Our food preference has changed, both in quantity, sort, as well as preparation method, more in the last 50 years than it has in all of human history combined. The fact that raw meat happened to have gone mostly out of fashion is no indication whatsoever on whether or not humans do in fact eat raw meat.



I'd be interested in seeing where this information (bolded) came from. Cooking meat has been around for centuries.

Actually it is likely that our ancestors going back to before the split that seperated us from chimps were omnivores because chimps are omnivores as well.

Cooking was one of the big advances that let us gain control of the world. It let our ancestors get more nutrition from food while killing pathogens. It is thought that cooking has driven the evolution of smaller jaws and teeth in humans which frees up skull space for an expanding braincase.

Eating raw meat was never common. Steak tartar and sushi are about the only historic examples.

The debate is more honest if it is centered on how frequently animal protein was part of our hunter gatherer ancestors diet and what bearingthat has on our diet today.


Thanks for reposting that but something tells me it's too full of facts and those with their heads in the sand won't read it becasue it proves we are NOT carnivores or really even omnivores.

WE ARE OMNIVORES.

If you're a responsible vegan you know that it is very difficult to properly nourish a growing child on a vegan diet. That is because the large human brain developed in response to our hunter/gatherer ancestors higher protein and higher fat diet compared to our much more vegetarian ancestors.

BTW I've been in slaughterhouses. I've slaughtered animals to eat and that has done nothing to my preference for a good hunk of animal flesh.

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RE: Before you grill it, ya gotta kill it - 9/3/2012 1:11:04 PM   
chemeli


Posts: 335
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SpaceSpank

The french tend to respect their food. They want the flavor to be the best possible. So they won't raise it the same way our big "the most volume we can get" factory farms do it.


quote:

ORIGINAL: pyschosubmission

Personally I love the French attitude to food...

The smaller and cuter than animal, the tastier




French people are no better then anybody else. There were cases of maltreatment towards animals and disrespect of laws towards humanic ways of treating animals here. I believe there's still cases like this here, people are good when it comes to curving laws and regulations to do what they want.

But dont know if you're speaking about french people from France or french people from well, here, in Quebec. In France, i wouldnt know about their methods of doing.

I've had a class at university about animal ethics and they way they presented it, we are way behind european countries when it comes to respecting the morals of animals (if you believe in such things).

< Message edited by chemeli -- 9/3/2012 1:12:06 PM >

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RE: Before you grill it, ya gotta kill it - 9/3/2012 1:13:51 PM   
DeviantlyD


Posts: 4375
Joined: 5/26/2007
From: Hawai`i
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
That is because the large human brain developed in response to our hunter/gatherer ancestors higher protein and higher fat diet compared to our much more vegetarian ancestors.


Do tell. What is "higher protein".


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RE: Before you grill it, ya gotta kill it - 9/3/2012 1:22:59 PM   
LadyHibiscus


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From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DeviantlyD


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
That is because the large human brain developed in response to our hunter/gatherer ancestors higher protein and higher fat diet compared to our much more vegetarian ancestors.


Do tell. What is "higher protein".



Just guessing, but I think he means MORE rather than 'superior'.

_____________________________

[page 23 girl]



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Profile   Post #: 138
RE: Before you grill it, ya gotta kill it - 9/3/2012 1:26:29 PM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		That is how I read it as well.

Multiple documentaries have discussed how the increase of animal proteins in diet increased the size and abilities of the human brain. Via evolution.

As far as 'better' proteins, here is one interesting article. proteins

< Message edited by LaTigresse -- 9/3/2012 1:28:12 PM >

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to LadyHibiscus)
Profile   Post #: 139
RE: Before you grill it, ya gotta kill it - 9/3/2012 1:28:08 PM   
DeviantlyD


Posts: 4375
Joined: 5/26/2007
From: Hawai`i
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

What can I say, it's a sad thing how animals are exploited and mistreated. It's a sad thing how humans are exploited and mistreated.



Indeed.



Wanting ethical treatment of animals does not negate the want of ethical treatment of human beings. I know this isn't what was said, but it's certainly implied when it's brought up in a thread like this which has nothing to do with human exploitation.

I really loathe seeing this comment thrown up whenever the subject of how animals are treated is brought up.
But since it's been introduced, I will delve into it.

How many of you are all for the elimination of harmful treatment of children? If you truly are, then you can do something about a certain amount of it and do it easily. How? Know the source of what you eat. It's the same thing with animals. Know your source.

How many of you are aware that almost half of the world's cocoa comes from the Côte d'Ivoire and that almost all of that cocoa is harvested using forced child slave labour? Not just any labour, but forced child slave labour. I know where the chocolate I eat comes from and it isn't from the Côte d'Ivoire.

I have no doubt that after reading this post, most, if not all of you will continue to eat whatever chocolate goodie you consume in the same manner you consume it without a thought to the children exploited in another country. Even though you will say it's a sad thing.

http://thecnnfreedomproject.blogs.cnn.com/2012/01/19/child-slavery-and-chocolate-all-too-easy-to-find/


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ExiledTyrant's groupie. Catering to his ego since May 26, 2007. :D

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