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RE: Before you grill it, ya gotta kill it - 9/2/2012 10:12:40 PM   
Aynne88


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See? There is that implication that it's elite. Or we think it's elite. It could not be further from the truth. I feel no superiority to these fellow earthlings that is why I can't eat them they are my equals, it's that simple. I mean that sincerely. I love all animals not just "Pets" that is my gripe. People freak over the mistreatment of cats and dogs, yet the rape, and abuse of cows by artificial insemination and the theft of their children and milk, no big deal. Slaughtering them for lunch, hey no biggie, force feeding ducks and geese for foie gras, all good. Makes no sense to me. What is elite to me is greedy assholes dining on animals cruelly kept in dark cramped abattoirs their entire lives for some jerks dinner, that is elite. While I dine one beans and kale.



_____________________________

As long as people will shed the blood of innocent creatures there can be no peace, no liberty, no harmony between people. Slaughter and justice cannot dwell together.
—Isaac Bashevis Singer, writer and Nobel laureate (1902–1991)



(in reply to tj444)
Profile   Post #: 81
RE: Before you grill it, ya gotta kill it - 9/2/2012 10:21:35 PM   
tj444


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Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline 		What you dine on is up to you.. no one forces you to eat beans and kale.. the elite part is the attitude that your way is the only right way.. and that anyone that isnt vegan is cruel to animals..

That attitude really reminds me of a girl when i was 18, she was a vegetarian and came to a bbq.. then she went around loudly saying "i smell burning flesh. i smell burning flesh".. why in the world did she come to the bbq in the first friggin place???

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RE: Before you grill it, ya gotta kill it - 9/2/2012 10:38:25 PM   
marie2


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aynne88


What is elite to me is greedy assholes dining on animals cruelly kept in dark cramped abattoirs their entire lives for some jerks dinner, that is elite. While I dine one beans and kale.


Sounds like you've been living a vegan lifestyle for a long time. What was the turning point for you? Or the deciding factor that caused you to convert?

< Message edited by marie2 -- 9/2/2012 10:53:52 PM >

(in reply to Aynne88)
Profile   Post #: 83
RE: Before you grill it, ya gotta kill it - 9/2/2012 10:49:22 PM   
marie2


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From: Jersey
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

That attitude really reminds me of a girl when i was 18, she was a vegetarian and came to a bbq.. then she went around loudly saying "i smell burning flesh. i smell burning flesh".. why in the world did she come to the bbq in the first friggin place???


lol. That would irritate me.

I have a hard time wrapping around the vegan thing. Vegetarian I can understand. But I would find it nearly impossible to have no animal products at all....Eggs, cheese, yogurt. And animal "stuff" is in so many foods that we don't even think about. And then there's leather handbags and jackets!

(in reply to tj444)
Profile   Post #: 84
RE: Before you grill it, ya gotta kill it - 9/2/2012 10:50:09 PM   
DeviantlyD


Posts: 4375
Joined: 5/26/2007
From: Hawai`i
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

What you dine on is up to you.. no one forces you to eat beans and kale.. the elite part is the attitude that your way is the only right way.. and that anyone that isnt vegan is cruel to animals..

That attitude really reminds me of a girl when i was 18, she was a vegetarian and came to a bbq.. then she went around loudly saying "i smell burning flesh. i smell burning flesh".. why in the world did she come to the bbq in the first friggin place???


I would attribute that behaviour more to her age than to her choice of diet.

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Profile   Post #: 85
RE: Before you grill it, ya gotta kill it - 9/2/2012 10:54:38 PM   
Aynne88


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Joined: 8/29/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: marie2


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aynne88


What is elite to me is greedy assholes dining on animals cruelly kept in dark cramped abattoirs their entire lives for some jerks dinner, that is elite. While I dine one beans and kale.


Sounds like you've been living a vegan lifestyle for a long time. When was the turning point for you?



Thanks for not slamming me Marie. For a long time I did the whole "local humanely raised" thing then I started rescuing rabbits and seeing how much they just wanted to live, so simple, and then I began investigating more and more and realized I could no longer excuse my own meat eating ways while claiming to love animals and rescue some while eating others. It was that easy. Those bunnies have done more for me than I have for them, they saved me more.

_____________________________

As long as people will shed the blood of innocent creatures there can be no peace, no liberty, no harmony between people. Slaughter and justice cannot dwell together.
—Isaac Bashevis Singer, writer and Nobel laureate (1902–1991)



(in reply to marie2)
Profile   Post #: 86
RE: Before you grill it, ya gotta kill it - 9/2/2012 10:56:05 PM   
DeviantlyD


Posts: 4375
Joined: 5/26/2007
From: Hawai`i
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: marie2


quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

That attitude really reminds me of a girl when i was 18, she was a vegetarian and came to a bbq.. then she went around loudly saying "i smell burning flesh. i smell burning flesh".. why in the world did she come to the bbq in the first friggin place???


lol. That would irritate me.

I have a hard time wrapping around the vegan thing. Vegetarian I can understand. But I would find it nearly impossible to have no animal products at all....Eggs, cheese, yogurt. And animal "stuff" is in so many foods that we don't even think about. And then there's leather handbags and jackets!


I have read the ingredients of packaged foods for most of my adult life. I know exactly what is in any packaged food I consume. Aside from eggs and dairy, another consideration is processed sugar ingredients. I'm stunned by the number and types of packaged foods that use them.

I think the healthier approach (and it's proven healthier) is plant based, non-processed food choices. It isn't easy, but it's doable.

_____________________________

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(in reply to marie2)
Profile   Post #: 87
RE: Before you grill it, ya gotta kill it - 9/2/2012 10:56:26 PM   
Aynne88


Posts: 3873
Joined: 8/29/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DeviantlyD


quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

What you dine on is up to you.. no one forces you to eat beans and kale.. the elite part is the attitude that your way is the only right way.. and that anyone that isnt vegan is cruel to animals..

That attitude really reminds me of a girl when i was 18, she was a vegetarian and came to a bbq.. then she went around loudly saying "i smell burning flesh. i smell burning flesh".. why in the world did she come to the bbq in the first friggin place???


Me too. I go to BBQ's. I work in a restaurant, I have dinner at friends, and I don't slam them, I quietly eat what I can there or bring my own food with enough to share.

I would attribute that behaviour more to her age than to her choice of diet.



_____________________________

As long as people will shed the blood of innocent creatures there can be no peace, no liberty, no harmony between people. Slaughter and justice cannot dwell together.
—Isaac Bashevis Singer, writer and Nobel laureate (1902–1991)



(in reply to DeviantlyD)
Profile   Post #: 88
RE: Before you grill it, ya gotta kill it - 9/2/2012 10:58:02 PM   
marie2


Posts: 1690
Joined: 11/4/2008
From: Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aynne88


quote:

ORIGINAL: marie2


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aynne88


What is elite to me is greedy assholes dining on animals cruelly kept in dark cramped abattoirs their entire lives for some jerks dinner, that is elite. While I dine one beans and kale.


Sounds like you've been living a vegan lifestyle for a long time. When was the turning point for you?



Thanks for not slamming me Marie. For a long time I did the whole "local humanely raised" thing then I started rescuing rabbits and seeing how much they just wanted to live, so simple, and then I began investigating more and more and realized I could no longer excuse my own meat eating ways while claiming to love animals and rescue some while eating others. It was that easy. Those bunnies have done more for me than I have for them, they saved me more.


I actually edited my question because it was worded poorly, but you hit on exactly what I was curious about. I think about this stuff myself and sometimes I just can't eat meat if I think on it too much, but then I find ways to put it out of my head because sometimes I'm so craving it.

Not sure I'd feel too guilty about eggs n stuff though. I guess I don't see that as bad as the whole slaughtering thing.

(in reply to Aynne88)
Profile   Post #: 89
RE: Before you grill it, ya gotta kill it - 9/2/2012 10:59:22 PM   
marie2


Posts: 1690
Joined: 11/4/2008
From: Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DeviantlyD


quote:

ORIGINAL: marie2


quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

That attitude really reminds me of a girl when i was 18, she was a vegetarian and came to a bbq.. then she went around loudly saying "i smell burning flesh. i smell burning flesh".. why in the world did she come to the bbq in the first friggin place???


lol. That would irritate me.

I have a hard time wrapping around the vegan thing. Vegetarian I can understand. But I would find it nearly impossible to have no animal products at all....Eggs, cheese, yogurt. And animal "stuff" is in so many foods that we don't even think about. And then there's leather handbags and jackets!


I have read the ingredients of packaged foods for most of my adult life. I know exactly what is in any packaged food I consume. Aside from eggs and dairy, another consideration is processed sugar ingredients. I'm stunned by the number and types of packaged foods that use them.

I think the healthier approach (and it's proven healthier) is plant based, non-processed food choices. It isn't easy, but it's doable.


Hell yes...theres fructose in every damn thing. Not to mention the bad name that gluten is getting lately as well. It's amazing how many products contain gluten when you start reading labels.

(in reply to DeviantlyD)
Profile   Post #: 90
RE: Before you grill it, ya gotta kill it - 9/2/2012 11:10:55 PM   
DeviantlyD


Posts: 4375
Joined: 5/26/2007
From: Hawai`i
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quote:

ORIGINAL: marie2

Not sure I'd feel too guilty about eggs n stuff though. I guess I don't see that as bad as the whole slaughtering thing.


It's because of how the chickens who bear those eggs are treated.

http://www.wesleyan.edu/wsa/warn/eon/batteryfarming/hens.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/12/opinion/kristof-is-an-egg-for-breakfast-worth-this.html



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Profile   Post #: 91
RE: Before you grill it, ya gotta kill it - 9/2/2012 11:12:46 PM   
tj444


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Joined: 3/7/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DeviantlyD


quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

What you dine on is up to you.. no one forces you to eat beans and kale.. the elite part is the attitude that your way is the only right way.. and that anyone that isnt vegan is cruel to animals..

That attitude really reminds me of a girl when i was 18, she was a vegetarian and came to a bbq.. then she went around loudly saying "i smell burning flesh. i smell burning flesh".. why in the world did she come to the bbq in the first friggin place???


I would attribute that behaviour more to her age than to her choice of diet.

I was a vegetarian just as she was but i didnt go around slamming everyone else cuz of their choice of food.. It didnt change anyones opinion of what to eat, it did change their opinion about her tho.. People are not going to accept the message when they are preached to or insulted about their choices..

_____________________________

As Anderson Cooper said “If he (Trump) took a dump on his desk, you would defend it”

(in reply to DeviantlyD)
Profile   Post #: 92
RE: Before you grill it, ya gotta kill it - 9/2/2012 11:22:57 PM   
DeviantlyD


Posts: 4375
Joined: 5/26/2007
From: Hawai`i
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: DeviantlyD


quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

What you dine on is up to you.. no one forces you to eat beans and kale.. the elite part is the attitude that your way is the only right way.. and that anyone that isnt vegan is cruel to animals..

That attitude really reminds me of a girl when i was 18, she was a vegetarian and came to a bbq.. then she went around loudly saying "i smell burning flesh. i smell burning flesh".. why in the world did she come to the bbq in the first friggin place???


I would attribute that behaviour more to her age than to her choice of diet.

I was a vegetarian just as she was but i didnt go around slamming everyone else cuz of their choice of food.. It didnt change anyones opinion of what to eat, it did change their opinion about her tho.. People are not going to accept the message when they are preached to or insulted about their choices..


So what's your point here because clearly I'm missing it. It seems to me she was behaving immaturely, something I credited to the age she was. Your response indicates you think it was something else.

_____________________________

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(in reply to tj444)
Profile   Post #: 93
RE: Before you grill it, ya gotta kill it - 9/2/2012 11:33:14 PM   
tj444


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Joined: 3/7/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DeviantlyD

quote:

ORIGINAL: marie2
I have a hard time wrapping around the vegan thing. Vegetarian I can understand. But I would find it nearly impossible to have no animal products at all....Eggs, cheese, yogurt. And animal "stuff" is in so many foods that we don't even think about. And then there's leather handbags and jackets!


I have read the ingredients of packaged foods for most of my adult life. I know exactly what is in any packaged food I consume. Aside from eggs and dairy, another consideration is processed sugar ingredients. I'm stunned by the number and types of packaged foods that use them.

I think the healthier approach (and it's proven healthier) is plant based, non-processed food choices. It isn't easy, but it's doable.

I eat soy yogurt but its hard to find.. i was going to try making my own when i get back into my own place with a kitchen i can set up the way i want it.. and learn to make no egg no dairy soy ice cream too.. I think a big difference with the eggs and dairy is to buy organic and free range and products that have been produced by small family farms and not factory farms.. I am no fan of big farms, no matter if they are producing meat and dairy or veggies.. factory is factory imo.. and factory farms put family farms out of business.. I dont eat eggs.. i dont drink milk, i do eat a little cheese tho like on pizza, once in a while.. I have never tried the soy cheese.. i dont like the taste of soy burgers or soy dogs tho..

I think if you want to get away from the processed sugar products you need to buy everything from scratch, buy a freezer and make up your own frozen meals and food.. its amazing what they are putting sugar into, even some brands of tomato sauce and canned peas! And you have to keep reading the labels even when you find a brand you like cuz without warning they can change their formula.. like Kashi did with their cereal that i used to buy.. all of a sudden there is half the protein and more sugar and less fiber, and few people noticed the changes! you just cant trust em..

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RE: Before you grill it, ya gotta kill it - 9/2/2012 11:39:51 PM   
UllrsIshtar


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DeviantlyD

There is a school of thought that indicates if human beings were true omnivores, they would eat meat raw.



They do. Just not in the US, and the popularity of it is fading in all Western nations in general.

I love raw meat. I can't fry up bacon without stealing half the slices before they even hit the pan.

_____________________________

I can be your whore
I am the dirt you created
I am your sinner
And your whore
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You love me for everything you hate me for

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RE: Before you grill it, ya gotta kill it - 9/2/2012 11:42:18 PM   
DeviantlyD


Posts: 4375
Joined: 5/26/2007
From: Hawai`i
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quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar


quote:

ORIGINAL: DeviantlyD

There is a school of thought that indicates if human beings were true omnivores, they would eat meat raw.



They do. Just not in the US, and the popularity of it is fading in all Western nations in general.

I love raw meat. I can't fry up bacon without stealing half the slices before they even hit the pan.


The flaw in your comment is that the vast majority of meat eaters in Western society do not eat meat raw, but cooked.

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Profile   Post #: 96
RE: Before you grill it, ya gotta kill it - 9/2/2012 11:43:26 PM   
tj444


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Joined: 3/7/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DeviantlyD

So what's your point here because clearly I'm missing it. It seems to me she was behaving immaturely, something I credited to the age she was. Your response indicates you think it was something else.

imo its the same holier than thou attitude as saying vegetarians are worse & more cruel than meat eaters (in reply to my post about being a vegetarian kid growing up on a family farm).. that reply post has disappeared from the other thread now tho..

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RE: Before you grill it, ya gotta kill it - 9/2/2012 11:51:35 PM   
UllrsIshtar


Posts: 3693
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DeviantlyD


quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar


quote:

ORIGINAL: DeviantlyD

There is a school of thought that indicates if human beings were true omnivores, they would eat meat raw.



They do. Just not in the US, and the popularity of it is fading in all Western nations in general.

I love raw meat. I can't fry up bacon without stealing half the slices before they even hit the pan.


The flaw in your comment is that the vast majority of meat eaters in Western society do not eat meat raw, but cooked.


So?

The vast majority of veggie eaters in Western society also eat cooked veggies.

Eating raw meat is something that has only very recently gone out of fashion. It therefore has no bearing on humanity's omnivore status.

Our food preference has changed, both in quantity, sort, as well as preparation method, more in the last 50 years than it has in all of human history combined. The fact that raw meat happened to have gone mostly out of fashion is no indication whatsoever on whether or not humans do in fact eat raw meat.



_____________________________

I can be your whore
I am the dirt you created
I am your sinner
And your whore
But let me tell you something baby
You love me for everything you hate me for

(in reply to DeviantlyD)
Profile   Post #: 98
RE: Before you grill it, ya gotta kill it - 9/2/2012 11:58:16 PM   
DeviantlyD


Posts: 4375
Joined: 5/26/2007
From: Hawai`i
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar

So?

The vast majority of veggie eaters in Western society also eat cooked veggies.

Eating raw meat is something that has only very recently gone out of fashion. It therefore has no bearing on humanity's omnivore status.

Our food preference has changed, both in quantity, sort, as well as preparation method, more in the last 50 years than it has in all of human history combined. The fact that raw meat happened to have gone mostly out of fashion is no indication whatsoever on whether or not humans do in fact eat raw meat.



I'd be interested in seeing where this information (bolded) came from. Cooking meat has been around for centuries.

Edited to add:

In response to your "So?" comment, it is that you made a comment that implied there were plenty of raw meat eaters around since you liked raw meat. My rebuttal is that most of Western society does not eat raw, despite what your preferences are. My prior comments were general ones and not applying to specific individuals. Does that get my point across now?

< Message edited by DeviantlyD -- 9/3/2012 12:01:00 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 99
RE: Before you grill it, ya gotta kill it - 9/3/2012 12:02:26 AM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DeviantlyD

quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar

quote:

ORIGINAL: DeviantlyD

There is a school of thought that indicates if human beings were true omnivores, they would eat meat raw.



They do. Just not in the US, and the popularity of it is fading in all Western nations in general.

I love raw meat. I can't fry up bacon without stealing half the slices before they even hit the pan.


The flaw in your comment is that the vast majority of meat eaters in Western society do not eat meat raw, but cooked.

i see it as a choice to eat cooked meat, not that we cant.. what did cave-people do before fire was invented? if there was no fire to cook with then our ancestors had to have eaten meat raw.. When you go to church (the one i went to), you drink the blood and eat the body of God.. that has always made me wonder..

_____________________________

As Anderson Cooper said “If he (Trump) took a dump on his desk, you would defend it”

(in reply to DeviantlyD)
Profile   Post #: 100
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