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RE: An understanding of political lies. - 9/6/2012 4:25:19 PM   
LookieNoNookie


Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
So they pay no federal excise tax.. no state tax... no local tax, no SS, no FICA, no Medicare.... he pays no taxes at all. None, zilch, nada.


You know damn well he was talking about Federal income taxes. Damn. And, yes, there are a shit ton of people who pay no Federal income taxes.


Thanks....(I was fairly confident I'd spelled that out fairly clearly).

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 101
RE: An understanding of political lies. - 9/6/2012 5:31:20 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Actually, no you didnt. You said they paid no taxes. Hell, I even proved they did pay federal taxes.

Now, here is a question that should flip your lid.

How many people, who would otherwise qualify for a rebate, dont file?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to LookieNoNookie)
Profile   Post #: 102
RE: An understanding of political lies. - 9/6/2012 6:33:11 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
Actually, no you didnt. You said they paid no taxes. Hell, I even proved they did pay federal taxes.
Now, here is a question that should flip your lid.
How many people, who would otherwise qualify for a rebate, dont file?


Actually, he did, tazzy. He mentioned that he was ignoring FICA, etc. He limited his entire posting to Federal income taxes. You just want to nitpick because he didn't spell it out exactly in those words. He's right. You're also right because there probably isn't a working-age person that pays zero taxes when you look at all the levels.

Makes you wonder exactly what our tax burden is, adding it all up, doesn't it?

_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 103
RE: An understanding of political lies. - 9/6/2012 7:15:04 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		And what was MY question?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 104
RE: An understanding of political lies. - 9/7/2012 5:17:29 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
And what was MY question?


Your question was not based on what he was stating and exactly where the dust up comes from. He was talking about income taxes, and you knew it. You challenged him to show someone who paid "no" taxes. From his frame of reference, he was right. Since you were talking about taxes, at all levels, and not specifically Federal income taxes, you are also correct in that there isn't anyone (unless they live completely off the grid and are 100% self sufficient) in that category. Since LookieNoNookie was speaking of Federal income taxes prior to your challenge on taxation at all levels, you should have made sure it was understood that you were asking about taxes at all levels. Jumping on Lookie for not answering your question according to your criteria was wrong because you didn't make sure your criteria were known.

If I'm having a conversation at Best Buy about a printer, in the aisle they show printers, and you jump in and ask about the price of ink, if you don't state that you want the price range for ink for *all* printers, you can't get upset when you're given the price of ink to the printer the conversation is about and not the price range for all printers.

Since I've been part and party to one of your *any taxes* rants, I knew precisely what you were asking (and why).

_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 105
RE: An understanding of political lies. - 9/7/2012 6:32:43 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Post # 81

quote:

(I don't know...it just seems to me that everyone should be involved somehow in the {federal tax} game.....it just seems right to me).


His claim. Dont even get started with me. He made it. I asked him to back it up... more than once. Even if we go by the federal income tax (which is not what he said) claim you are using now, everyone who works pays in.

There are different federal taxes.

Personal Income Taxes
Payroll Taxes
Estate Taxes
Gift Taxes
Federal Excise taxes

Do I really need to explain more to prove the point of how ridiculous his claim is?

Or maybe YOU can show me how a family with 3 kids pays no federal taxes.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 106
RE: An understanding of political lies. - 9/7/2012 6:42:33 AM   
LookieNoNookie


Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Actually, no you didnt. You said they paid no taxes. Hell, I even proved they did pay federal taxes.

Now, here is a question that should flip your lid.

How many people, who would otherwise qualify for a rebate, dont file?



Here...I'll say it again:

"How do you get to a place where everyone pays an "appropriate" share? Shouldn't everyone pay an appropriate share? Set aside SSI and unemployment, L&I coverage.....shouldn't everyone pay something?"

That indicates that I'm not counting those and other taxes (including sales tax, which everyone pays as well).

As to how many don't file...haven't a clue. If they're owed money, don't you think that's rather dumb not to?

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 107
RE: An understanding of political lies. - 9/7/2012 6:51:43 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

As to how many don't file...haven't a clue. If they're owed money, don't you think that's rather dumb not to?


How many illegals do we have in this country? Many of them do not file out of fear of being discovered. So all that money just sits there.

Anyone who works and pays in those taxes you want to ignore also pays in to the federal system. Free money for the government to use until tax time and the filer may file for it to be returned. But, make no mistake, they do pay in.

The federal telephone excise tax is a statutory federal excise tax imposed under the Internal Revenue Code in the United States under 26 U.S.C. § 4251 on amounts paid for certain "communications services." The tax was to be imposed on the person paying for the communications services (such as a customer of a telephone company) but, under 26 U.S.C. § 4291, is collected from the customer by the "person receiving any payment for facilities or services" on which the tax is imposed (i.e., is collected by the telephone company, which files a quarterly Form 720 excise return and forwards the tax to the Internal Revenue Service).

Got a phone? You pay that.

Excise Tax
Excise taxes are taxes paid when purchases are made on a specific good, such as gasoline. Excise taxes are often included in the price of the product. There are also excise taxes on activities, such as on wagering or on highway usage by trucks. Excise Tax has several general excise tax programs. One of the major components of the excise program is motor fuel.

http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Small-Businesses-&-Self-Employed/Excise-Tax

Wasnt one of those silly little excise taxes on the use of tanning beds?

Other forms...

Gasoline Tax

http://www.ttb.gov/tax_audit/atftaxes.shtml

Honestly, isnt it time to jump off this complaint?

The government uses the money of every person who works or shops in the US. Even when the person isnt American.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to LookieNoNookie)
Profile   Post #: 108
RE: An understanding of political lies. - 9/7/2012 2:56:13 PM   
LookieNoNookie


Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

As to how many don't file...haven't a clue. If they're owed money, don't you think that's rather dumb not to?


How many illegals do we have in this country? Many of them do not file out of fear of being discovered. So all that money just sits there.

Anyone who works and pays in those taxes you want to ignore also pays in to the federal system. Free money for the government to use until tax time and the filer may file for it to be returned. But, make no mistake, they do pay in.

The federal telephone excise tax is a statutory federal excise tax imposed under the Internal Revenue Code in the United States under 26 U.S.C. § 4251 on amounts paid for certain "communications services." The tax was to be imposed on the person paying for the communications services (such as a customer of a telephone company) but, under 26 U.S.C. § 4291, is collected from the customer by the "person receiving any payment for facilities or services" on which the tax is imposed (i.e., is collected by the telephone company, which files a quarterly Form 720 excise return and forwards the tax to the Internal Revenue Service).

Got a phone? You pay that.

Excise Tax
Excise taxes are taxes paid when purchases are made on a specific good, such as gasoline. Excise taxes are often included in the price of the product. There are also excise taxes on activities, such as on wagering or on highway usage by trucks. Excise Tax has several general excise tax programs. One of the major components of the excise program is motor fuel.

http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Small-Businesses-&-Self-Employed/Excise-Tax

Wasnt one of those silly little excise taxes on the use of tanning beds?

Other forms...

Gasoline Tax

http://www.ttb.gov/tax_audit/atftaxes.shtml

Honestly, isnt it time to jump off this complaint?

The government uses the money of every person who works or shops in the US. Even when the person isnt American.


AGAIN.....my reference was regards FEDERAL taxes...

Let me say it again....

FEDERAL TAXES!!!!!

No other....none besides....not...nada....not even.

Federal taxes.

Not anything other than....nothing more than....FEDERAL TAXES.....

Hopefully that's clear now.

If it wasn't, allow me to be even more clear:

FEDERAL TAXES.....1040 (or similar).....

FEDERAL TAXES!!!!!!

I'm sure that's somewhat confusing, being that I've been more than evasive as to what I meant by that but....let's just try it ONE MORE TIME:

FEDERAL TAXES!!!!!!

Nothing more, no more than....not anything but....only....

Is that helpful?


(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 109
RE: An understanding of political lies. - 9/7/2012 2:58:49 PM   
LookieNoNookie


Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline 		So, in an effort to clarify....I mean ONLY federal INCOME taxes...not any other tax....no tax that isn't federal income tax.....nothing that doesn't resemble federal income tax....only taxes that are IN FACT.....federal income taxes.

(I'm confident I've left something out).

(in reply to LookieNoNookie)
Profile   Post #: 110
RE: An understanding of political lies. - 9/7/2012 6:36:46 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie
So, in an effort to clarify....I mean ONLY federal INCOME taxes...not any other tax....no tax that isn't federal income tax.....nothing that doesn't resemble federal income tax....only taxes that are IN FACT.....federal income taxes.
(I'm confident I've left something out).


I'm glad you caught your misstep. I was smirking on this side of my monitor as you were going apeshit with the Federal Taxes thing.

Thanks for the laugh!

_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to LookieNoNookie)
Profile   Post #: 111
RE: An understanding of political lies. - 9/7/2012 6:41:51 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

AGAIN.....my reference was regards FEDERAL taxes...


And again I addressed the federal tax issue. If people work... they pay in... federal INCOME tax.

You admitted as such. Your friend paid in 3K.

Again

He paid federal income tax... you admitted to such.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to LookieNoNookie)
Profile   Post #: 112
RE: An understanding of political lies. - 9/10/2012 6:50:19 PM   
LookieNoNookie


Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie
So, in an effort to clarify....I mean ONLY federal INCOME taxes...not any other tax....no tax that isn't federal income tax.....nothing that doesn't resemble federal income tax....only taxes that are IN FACT.....federal income taxes.
(I'm confident I've left something out).


I'm glad you caught your misstep. I was smirking on this side of my monitor as you were going apeshit with the Federal Taxes thing.

Thanks for the laugh!


Yes....thank you.

(Apparently I was not clear on my subject matter).

I've been accused of worse.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 113
RE: An understanding of political lies. - 9/10/2012 6:51:24 PM   
LookieNoNookie


Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

AGAIN.....my reference was regards FEDERAL taxes...


And again I addressed the federal tax issue. If people work... they pay in... federal INCOME tax.

You admitted as such. Your friend paid in 3K.

Again

He paid federal income tax... you admitted to such.


(He wasn't my friend, although I do enjoy his company and discourse....but....he's an employee).

And?

< Message edited by LookieNoNookie -- 9/10/2012 6:52:42 PM >

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 114
RE: An understanding of political lies. - 9/10/2012 7:05:32 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		LOL.. and your position all along was a lie.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to LookieNoNookie)
Profile   Post #: 115
RE: An understanding of political lies. - 9/10/2012 7:18:14 PM   
LookieNoNookie


Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Post # 81

quote:

(I don't know...it just seems to me that everyone should be involved somehow in the {federal tax} game.....it just seems right to me).


His claim. Dont even get started with me. He made it. I asked him to back it up... more than once. Even if we go by the federal income tax (which is not what he said) claim you are using now, everyone who works pays in.

There are different federal taxes.

Personal Income Taxes
Payroll Taxes
Estate Taxes
Gift Taxes
Federal Excise taxes

Do I really need to explain more to prove the point of how ridiculous his claim is?

Or maybe YOU can show me how a family with 3 kids pays no federal taxes.


I can't. It's actually illegal for me to review his records even as I own the company.

What I can tell you is...he did it and he got money back (more than he actually paid in).

And based on what I now know...he'll get back more than he paid in April of 2013 as well.

Go see an accountant if you want answers hon...I don't write these rules. Call someone in Ogden Utah.

Hell....in 1985 when I'd been running my company for, then, 7 years, I couldn't get a gawdamned SEARS card (the easiest card on Earth to get...if you were eating straw and lived in a potato patch, so long as you had a payroll check stub and could prove you paid federal taxes, (and made enough to pay the SEARS bill) you got a plastic card.

My (then...1985) employee showed up one day with every kind of Craftsmen (car) tool you'd ever imagine wanting...and it was all done on "27 easy monthly payments". He liked fixing cars.

I said...WTF? I can't get a damn SEARS card???!!!! And I own the damn business!!!!"

I'd applied for a SEARS card (I was then all of 23 or 4) weeks before as "President" of the company.

Turned down.

Why?

My income wasn't (as a business owner) "stable".

His, as an employee....was.

Sooooooo....the very next week, I re-applied as an "employee" of my own firm.

Two weeks later I had, at 23+, my very first credit card.

By lying.

So...you want to know why someone gets a big check from the feds when they've paid less than that in taxes? Haven't got a clue (and frankly, I couldn't care less). Wanna know why someone can get credit when none is due, or why someone who PROVIDES the income (couldn't) get a card even though he was providing the income (unless he lied)?

Haven't got a clue.

Talk to your accountant.

Ask SEARS. Ask Bank of America if that turns you on.

Ask your Congressman because it's this kind of shit that's killing small business people.

I don't have the answers you're looking for.

I can tell you this:

It's the real world.

And if you want in the game....you have to play the game.

(And the rules rarely make sense).

You explain it to me, and then we'll both understand.

< Message edited by LookieNoNookie -- 9/10/2012 7:26:56 PM >

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 116
RE: An understanding of political lies. - 9/10/2012 7:19:29 PM   
LookieNoNookie


Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

LOL.. and your position all along was a lie.


Of course...because you can't grasp it...I'm a liar.

Sure.

< Message edited by LookieNoNookie -- 9/10/2012 7:24:01 PM >

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 117
RE: An understanding of political lies. - 9/10/2012 7:24:14 PM   
LookieNoNookie


Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline 		Natch.

(in reply to LookieNoNookie)
Profile   Post #: 118
RE: An understanding of political lies. - 9/10/2012 7:49:35 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Post # 81

quote:

(I don't know...it just seems to me that everyone should be involved somehow in the {federal tax} game.....it just seems right to me).


His claim. Dont even get started with me. He made it. I asked him to back it up... more than once. Even if we go by the federal income tax (which is not what he said) claim you are using now, everyone who works pays in.

There are different federal taxes.

Personal Income Taxes
Payroll Taxes
Estate Taxes
Gift Taxes
Federal Excise taxes

Do I really need to explain more to prove the point of how ridiculous his claim is?

Or maybe YOU can show me how a family with 3 kids pays no federal taxes.

A couple with only two children earning less than $26,400 will pay no federal income tax this year because their $11,600 standard deduction and four exemptions of $3,700 each reduce their taxable income to zero.

The basic structure of the income tax simply exempts subsistence levels of income from tax.

Obviously a family of 3 or more kids on the same income or making $3700 more per child, would pay no federal taxes.

That's approx. 1/2 of the people that do not pay federal income taxes. Most of the rest are as a result of even lower incomes (or, if you prefer, the standard deduction and personal exemptions) account for fully half of the people who pay no federal income tax.

The second reason is that for many senior citizens, some Social Security benefits are exempt from federal income taxes. That accounts for about 22% more of the people who pay no federal income tax.

The main reason anyone pays no federal income taxes is because they are too poor or too old...or both.

While it is conjecture, it is very possible that in 2009 and according to many that are in that tax world, Romney may have taken advantage of the tax amnesty creating an incentive to repatriate profits or earnings and very possibly...paid NO federal income taxes.

If that is true and he was to divulge that before the election, it would be political suicide.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 119
RE: An understanding of political lies. - 9/10/2012 7:52:18 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

I can't. It's actually illegal for me to review his records even as I own the company.

What I can tell you is...he did it and he got money back (more than he actually paid in).

And based on what I now know...he'll get back more than he paid in April of 2013 as well.


And that pisses you off?

He pays in 3k, the government uses it for free, he gets back, according to you, 4k, which technically you shouldnt disclose to anyone.

So you are here bitching because this man, and people like him, are paying into the system, and getting it back legally.

Yet, I dont see you bitching about corportations or the rich who do the same.

You made the claim... and you were the one who proved yourself wrong.

quote:

What I can tell you is...he did it and he got money back (more than he actually paid in).


quote:

How do you get to a place where everyone pays an "appropriate" share? Shouldn't everyone pay an appropriate share? Set aside SSI and unemployment, L&I coverage.....shouldn't everyone pay something?

$1.00?


He did pay in.... by your own admission.


_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to LookieNoNookie)
Profile   Post #: 120
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