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A Doms Right to Punish? - 9/5/2012 5:34:33 AM   
SlipSlidingAway


Posts: 223
Joined: 11/24/2006
Status: offline 		Hello all...

I have a general question about something that I have read quite a bit of on the forums.  Often, I see posts along the lines of "he only has the right to punish you if he's your Dom". 

While I know that the punishment dynamic is part of quite a few (probably most) D/s relationships- is there a consensus that, even when it's not part of the usual dynamic in a given relationship, it's still generally considered within a dominant's "rights" as the person in charge? 

I'm not talking M/s or Top/Bottom here.  Mostly talking about relationship D/s- where it's not just a kink situation.  Is punishment part and parcel of your power exchange even if it's not utilized? 

I have my own thoughts on this, but I just wanted to see what other people think and have in place in their relationships.  I have seen that sort of statement from some folks that I really admire as posters.  I tend to generally agree with and respect their opinions.  However, I'm on the fence with this one...

Thanks!

Edited for grammar.


< Message edited by SlipSlidingAway -- 9/5/2012 5:35:21 AM >

_____________________________

"...ethical behavior should be based...on sympathy, education, and social ties; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death. " —Albert Einstein
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RE: A Doms Right to Punish? - 9/5/2012 5:58:18 AM   
Endivius


Posts: 1238
Joined: 8/22/2011
Status: offline 		The only privelages afforded to the dominant are the ones agreed to by the bottom. If a D type wants to use punishment, and finds it usefull to adminster it for whatever reason, then as long as the sub/slave is agreeable to it there isn't much else to say.

As to me personally, I prefer to use a rewards system rather than a punishment one. However, time to time, it has been used to deal with issues that arise that couldn't be solved with rewards.

Sometimes a negative reinforcement is more powerfull than a positive one. It really depends on the relationship, and the individuals involved. Some need the dominance as a sense of guidance. That order and discipline they cannot seem to master in themselves they seek through others. Some prefer the release of accountability and personal responsibility. And even others, like bratty masochists for example, prefer the conflict over order; with the impending consequences (primarily because they desire the attention, and the pain is just a secular release in correlation of that). There is really no set in stone rule of thumb or right way regarding how a relationship is fed to each participant.

What ideally matters and is accepted by most members who post here regularly; myself included, is that, what is right for you is the right way. The "rights" as you have listed them, are really nothing more than the accepted status quo between the people inside the relationship. And while many people you meet in the lifestyle with have interesting and often colorfull relationships, what you see is only the surface of what they have.

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RE: A Doms Right to Punish? - 9/5/2012 6:16:45 AM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SlipSlidingAway

Hello all...

I have a general question about something that I have read quite a bit of on the forums.  Often, I see posts along the lines of "he only has the right to punish you if he's your Dom". 

While I know that the punishment dynamic is part of quite a few (probably most) D/s relationships- is there a consensus that, even when it's not part of the usual dynamic in a given relationship, it's still generally considered within a dominant's "rights" as the person in charge? 



I was the one making that statement, and I may have not spoken precisely there. The intent was that a Dom COULD have the right to punish within a relationship, but DOES NOT have the right to punish a submissive if he isn't in a relationship with her.

The background was that an alleged Dom was discussing punishing a sub with whom he didn't have a relationship. Not cricket.


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The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

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RE: A Doms Right to Punish? - 9/5/2012 6:20:21 AM   
ARIES83


Posts: 3648
Status: offline 		Everybodys situations are unique.

"Right" is an interesting way of putting it.

I know some people have a "total obedience
or you lose the collar" sort of deal, with no
punishment dynamic.

I personally would say, I feel like I need a
lot of liberties with a partners treatment,
and thats what I would insist on, (eventually
not from day one...) it's not something I
think someone should automaticly entitled
to.

-ARIES

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530 DAYS

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RE: A Doms Right to Punish? - 9/5/2012 6:41:16 AM   
Kana


Posts: 6676
Joined: 10/24/2006
Status: offline 		I hold her accountable. Now I don't call it punishment, I call it consequences, but hell yes I do.
As for the right-she's an owned slave. I have the right to do whatever I want at any time.






And she has the right to leave if she thinks I've gone off my bloody rocker

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RE: A Doms Right to Punish? - 9/5/2012 8:06:20 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		Never ask for a consensus among kinky folks. As one of the old posters used to say, kinky people would argue about belly button lint if you gave them the chance.

The way I see it, I have the rights that are agreed upon between Myself and the person who is wearing My collar. What those areas are need to be something that both parties are aware of and acceptable to both before the collar goes on. It's only from that time on that I own that person and have what I would call "rights". Yes, I do have the right to punish. I have the right to use him sexually when I want to. I have the right to tell him what to do, etc.


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RE: A Doms Right to Punish? - 9/5/2012 8:09:10 AM   
SlipSlidingAway


Posts: 223
Joined: 11/24/2006
Status: offline 		LOL.  I know, it's why I asked though.  I was not looking so much for consensus as for differing opinions.  I like to find out what other people think and how they put those thoughts into action...



< Message edited by SlipSlidingAway -- 9/5/2012 8:10:08 AM >

_____________________________

"...ethical behavior should be based...on sympathy, education, and social ties; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death. " —Albert Einstein

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RE: A Doms Right to Punish? - 9/5/2012 8:11:26 AM   
Toppingfrmbottom


Posts: 6528
Joined: 6/7/2009
Status: offline 		Nope, its not.
quote:

ORIGINAL: SlipSlidingAway

Hello all...

I have a general question about something that I have read quite a bit of on the forums.  Often, I see posts along the lines of "he only has the right to punish you if he's your Dom". 

While I know that the punishment dynamic is part of quite a few (probably most) D/s relationships- is there a consensus that, even when it's not part of the usual dynamic in a given relationship, it's still generally considered within a dominant's "rights" as the person in charge? 

I'm not talking M/s or Top/Bottom here.  Mostly talking about relationship D/s- where it's not just a kink situation.  Is punishment part and parcel of your power exchange even if it's not utilized? 

I have my own thoughts on this, but I just wanted to see what other people think and have in place in their relationships.  I have seen that sort of statement from some folks that I really admire as posters.  I tend to generally agree with and respect their opinions.  However, I'm on the fence with this one...

Thanks!

Edited for grammar.



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RE: A Doms Right to Punish? - 9/5/2012 8:15:15 AM   
SlipSlidingAway


Posts: 223
Joined: 11/24/2006
Status: offline 		Yes, yours was the most recent post that I saw along those lines, but it's certainly not the only one.  I have seen that (or similar) said here enough times that it's been jiggling around in the old noggin' for a while.  Your post just reminded me that I wanted to ask about it and get other opinions. 

Thanks for the clarification, though.  I appreciate it!


_____________________________

"...ethical behavior should be based...on sympathy, education, and social ties; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death. " —Albert Einstein

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RE: A Doms Right to Punish? - 9/5/2012 8:37:51 AM   
Whenready


Posts: 319
Joined: 3/5/2009
Status: offline 		There is no concensus about anything here - even about whether there's a concensus or not.

What anyone else does is their business. Punishment is part of my dynamic. It's part of the deal she can take or leave. It's my "right" because it's part of the deal I offer. She doesn't have to to take it, but if she does, sooner or later, since none of us are perfect, I expect to exercise that right. How I do so is between she & I.

The trouble with sitting on the fence is all the sharp points in a tender spot....

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RE: A Doms Right to Punish? - 9/5/2012 9:05:31 AM   
SlipSlidingAway


Posts: 223
Joined: 11/24/2006
Status: offline 		I agree completely what other people do is their own business.  I simply asked a question, nobody needs to answer it. 

However, I appreciate the input of  those who did-  including yourself. 

The boards here would be mighty quiet if nobody wanted to talk about their opinions or POV.  I see people posting quite a bit about how their relationships work.  For some it's more private, others don't mind sharing insights.  It's all good...

Sharp points on fences tend not to be a problem  when you CYA .  My tender parts are not quite as vulnerable as they may seem.


_____________________________

"...ethical behavior should be based...on sympathy, education, and social ties; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death. " —Albert Einstein

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RE: A Doms Right to Punish? - 9/5/2012 10:56:54 AM   
NakedSenses


Posts: 35
Joined: 7/26/2010
Status: offline 		I call it 'D' is for for 'Discipline' in BDSM. Self discipline is best, of course, but many are weak in this department sadly. As the 'relationship leader' (whatever term you like, they're interchangeable) I have a duty to my submissive-hearted partner to help her when she needs it. There are agreements in BDSM-styled, and other, such as M/s relationships, but there are no real legal rights. However some imagine they have rights and that is their choice, as long as they do not expect others to also believe in their self-proclaimed rights.

Friday night is 'discipline night' for my beloved submissive, who made a mistake recently and confessed it immediately. Now she asks for absolution and I have decided that she will receive it, in part, through corporal punishment with a clear purpose. My idea is is to use our d/s-styled (old school) dynamic to 'sets things to rights' and then be done and move on to happier times together. If anyone else were to hurt her, for any reason, and claimed 'it was punishment' and that 'they were a dom (or whatever)' it would sit very badly with me as her protector.

...and so two more copper clad zinc disks hit the floor

< Message edited by NakedSenses -- 9/5/2012 11:01:00 AM >

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"Don't try to understand them; don't try to make them understand you. For they are a breed apart and make no sense." - Chingachgook , The Last Of The Mohicans

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RE: A Doms Right to Punish? - 9/5/2012 11:23:34 AM   
ClassAct2006


Posts: 318
Joined: 4/12/2006
Status: offline 		1. If this is about whether a dom can punish a sub he is not in a relationship with (which presumably is not then agreed) then he of course he may not.
2. If it means in a relationships, I think carrots work better than sticks with most people although of course most of us would accept and agree to it.

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RE: A Doms Right to Punish? - 9/5/2012 11:29:15 AM   
Whenready


Posts: 319
Joined: 3/5/2009
Status: offline 		Carrots DO work better than sticks in general. However, if the carrot has failed, the stick (or whatever punishment is appropriate) may be needed.

I have found that "I am disappointed" and NOT giving attention can also help ensure that repeats are rare. Your mileage may vary.

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RE: A Doms Right to Punish? - 9/5/2012 11:53:01 AM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		I wasn't even punished by my parents let alone a man I happened to be fucking.
Unless you count being yelled at at the top of his lungs for hours... lol but marriage did tend to put a different twist on not doing as I was told.
I don't normally accept a punishment dynamic because usually I am disgustingly obedient (yes, it annoys me but I can't stop that trait).

That said, I once was in this sort of relationship where he did punish me because I did do something dangerous and stupid. I felt that while at a party with my lover I should have been more of a focus than I was getting. And when he disappeared for a while with his friend into the poker area, I had been left alone among people I didn't know. So I left. In a cute skirt, nice blouse, high heels and a temper. If you are at all familar with California there are just areas where you do not walk alone at night, this party was in that sort of area. Because I was fuming I choose not to walk down the most logical straight way home, which btw, would have been a 20 mile hike. I deliberatey avoided walking the well lit street of Firestone Ave and instead walked down Manchester.. a much darker scarier walk.
It wasn't long before he discovered I was gone. Apparently someone had seen me leave and clued him in to my leaving. He got on his motorcycle and drove around attempting to find me but as I said I chose not to take the deliberate route. It took probably 30 mins or so before he found me. He stopped beside me and said get on. I resisted initially but when he said it again in a much firmer tone I hopped on the back of the bike and he rode me to his place. Once there he ripped my clothes off, which usually meant he needed to fuck me, but in this case he picked me up and let me know how I should never do that again. He told me how he worried, how he thought I might be taken by someone, how that was the longest ride in his life. And then he put me outside on his back porch, naked. He told me he was not letting me back in until I thought about how dangerous it was and HE calmed down enough not to beat me senseless.

I think I must have been out there a couple of hours. I thought about how I could damned well just walk home this way after all it was only 5 miles. I plotted out my path, keeping close to houses hiding as much as I could, ect.. and realised that eventually I would have to walk over the overpass in full view, naked. I grabbed one of the lounge cushions and tried to pull the seams open so I could have something to wear.. but curse on my short nails. Nothing I could think of made any sense. And then it hit me. What I did by choosing to walk those dark streets did not make sense either. Every now and then I could see him through the closed curtain, sitting on his bed, smoking cigarette after cigarette. More than I had ever seen him smoke. And I knew he was upset. Eventually I ended up knocking on the glass and telling him I was sorry. He let me back in and told me he was sorry too. And then he said that taking chances like that might have killed me and he wanted to make sure I remembered this, and hauled me over his lap and spanked me in a non playful way. That was our first semi-punishment experience and probably the last.

But it did make an impression on me. I did end up taking a breath and thinking about things before doing them impulsively in a fit of anger. I never had that sort of experience again, but I am glad that it happened and I can totally understand how anyone might need it as part of their relationship. I was a very stubborn, very impulsive, very ... uncaring about my life and limb sort of person. The moment he took charge, the moment he stripped me and made me calm down.. the moment I saw him smoking over and over, I knew I had to at least try to be aware that I meant something to someone which is a rare precious gift.


< Message edited by Missokyst -- 9/5/2012 11:54:51 AM >

_____________________________

pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
― Bob Marley


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RE: A Doms Right to Punish? - 9/5/2012 11:54:58 AM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SlipSlidingAway

Hello all...

I have a general question about something that I have read quite a bit of on the forums.  Often, I see posts along the lines of "he only has the right to punish you if he's your Dom". 


The CONTEXT in which that is most frequently stated is when some idiot who is NOT in a relationship with a submissive tries to pull some petty power trip.

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RE: A Doms Right to Punish? - 9/5/2012 11:59:00 AM   
nephandi


Posts: 4470
Joined: 9/23/2005
From: Cold and magickal Norway in a town near Bergen!
Status: offline 		Greetings

That depend completely on the dynamic in a relationship and what the boundaries for that relationship is. In most D/s relationships I have heard of the Dominant party have had the right to punish the submissive party but how and with what method would vary allot, but I do not think such a right need to be part of the dynamic if the parties do not want it to be. Off course any right a Dom have to punish a sub beings and ends with that relationship. Now yes some groupings, for example Goreans have an idea that a slave is bellow every free in rank so in theory a free could punish a random given slave. I have never heard of anything but a stern talking to being doled out by Masters who where not either that slave's owner or his close friends or companion, to punish, and especially in a physical way is a good way to end up with some nasty drama or in court. There is also other lifestyles that have limited arrangements where a sub might be punished by another Dom in the lifestyle and some Dom's have friends who they allow access to their subs but generally if a Dom is to have any "right" to punish a sub it is the right he or she give them when they enter the relationship.

I wish you well

_____________________________

Whatever you think you can do or believe you can do, begin it. Action has magic, grace and power in it.--Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

Futon torpedoes, make love not war!--Aswad


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RE: A Doms Right to Punish? - 9/5/2012 12:34:56 PM   
myotherself


Posts: 7157
Joined: 3/9/2006
From: The cold bit of the UK
Status: offline 		When I was single, I searched for a partner who wanted a punishment dynamic. It works for me, and for that reason I want it as part of my relationship.

At the start, when we were just dating and there was no 'dynamic', for want of a better word, there was no punishment. After a few months we decided that we were ready to move to a D/s relationship and we discussed how a punishment dynamic would work.

More accurately, he told me how he was going to handle that side of things and I could agree and we'd stay together, or disagree and we'd part ways.

Now we're in a much deeper relationship, my only choice is to either do as he says, or leave. I wouldn't do that because I prefer that kind of dynamic - it's what I sought after all those years of searching.

As it stands, he has the right to punish me for whatever he sees fit. We talk through the misdemeanour first, then I take whatever he deems to be an appropriate punishment. It rarely happens though - once in the last year or 18 months, if I remember correctly. So when it does happen, it's a big deal to both of us.

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RE: A Doms Right to Punish? - 9/5/2012 1:27:25 PM   
ChatteParfaitt


Posts: 6562
Joined: 3/22/2011
From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
Status: offline 		Himself and I do not have a punishment dynamic, however, he does give me tasks to do, often with deadlines (he understands I am very deadline oriented).

For instance, I have a medical test I have to have completed by a week from Friday. It's one I hate to do, thus the deadline. What are the consequences of me not doing it?

Frankly, him giving me specific consequences has never come up with us. I tend to be highly obedient. If I had to describe our dynamic, I would say in most ways it is akin to a very busy executive and his extremely able administrative assistant. Yes, he's the boss, but I'm no slouch either. If I don't complete a task he has given me, it's not down to immature rebellion or gross incompetence, there is a *reason.*

Now, he's a very intelligent man, he won't let me play him. He might be very understanding about one reason for not making the test on time. I know him well enough to know his patience would wear thin quickly if he thought I was making excuses instead of being obedient. What would be the consequences? Not a physical punishment, instead, a look of disappointment that I would hate to see. It's a look that says: "You want to play a submissive game instead of actually *being* a submissive, and that's not what *I* want."

The rare times I have seen that look, it cuts me to the quick.

So yes, I agree, in a well functioning dynamic, there are always consequences for disobedience.

ETA: I would amend the statement to be, a dom's right to expect obedience.


< Message edited by ChatteParfaitt -- 9/5/2012 1:55:43 PM >

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RE: A Doms Right to Punish? - 9/5/2012 1:44:14 PM   
SailingBum


Posts: 3225
Joined: 12/10/2007
From: Sailin the stormy sea
Status: offline 		She does as she is told....if she gets uppity I toss her in the penalty box of my choice. It's how I roll

BadOne

_____________________________

The beatings will continue until morale improves.

According to SwithNSpanky
We are all so very lucky to have you with us to impart your great wisdom.

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