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RE: Question for A/all - 6/12/2006 8:10:54 AM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: litleone8620
what will 6 months do?

To give you enough time to ask and form your own answers to these questions BEFORE you find yourself in a situation you had no idea you were getting into.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to litleone8620)

Post #: 21

RE: Question for A/all - 6/12/2006 8:14:16 AM

darkinshadows

Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline

Hello (again)

Try not to get too caught up in the whole definition debate. I can only say from my point of view and the way I was taught.

There are three basic scenarios. One - your a masochist and you 'misbehave' so that the dominant punishes because you enjoy the sensation. Two, you enjoy punishments and ask for them. or Three you do soemthing wrong and you have to be disciplined to learn from your mistake.(of course there are more - but these are basics). Whether you call them punishments or discipline is up to personal choice and ultimately the dominant you submit to to decide how to define those specifics. But just remember to keep communication open.

Peace and Rapture

_____________________________

.dark.

...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to litleone8620)

Post #: 22

RE: Question for A/all - 6/12/2006 8:14:38 AM

wild1cfl

Posts: 567
Joined: 4/19/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: darkinshadows

quote:

ORIGINAL: litleone8620

is punishment necessary for training a slave?

No - punishment isnt necessary for training. It all depends on the relationship and the dominants training methods.

Peace and Rapture

In my opinion I agree with you that punishment is not necessary for training, I prefer to not use it when training. Discipline is important for training, in the sense of listening and being focused on the training. If both the Dominant and the slave are focused on the training then there is no need for punishment.

Wild

(in reply to darkinshadows)

Post #: 23

RE: Question for A/all - 6/12/2006 8:35:02 AM

darkinshadows

Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline

I totally agree and understand your point. It is very hard to try and define a difference between the two. I have had other dominants define them in the reverse way (personally, I prefere your model)- which can be very confusing for new people.(which is what I tried to suggest in my other post) - communication is the key.

Peace and Rapture

_____________________________

.dark.

...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to wild1cfl)

Post #: 24

RE: Question for A/all - 6/12/2006 8:37:48 AM

litleone8620

Posts: 3669
Joined: 6/12/2006
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but if the Dominant doesnt give either rewards, or punishment, isn't the submissive going to question Him? i think that is why i am not second guessing my decision to enter into the lifestyle, i'm second guessing my decision to be with the Master i am with. W/we live apart, and we scene a couple times a week, yet i feel as if i'm not getting any discipline, or punishment. i get plenty of rewards in the form of spankings, and such.

but to get back on topic; doesn't a Master have to establish His dominance over the submissive, and if He doesn't, won't the submissive second guess herself?

(in reply to darkinshadows)

Post #: 25

RE: Question for A/all - 6/12/2006 8:43:12 AM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
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Have you done something wrong, with certain knowledge that it was wrong?

I just don't get this altogether.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to litleone8620)

Post #: 26

RE: Question for A/all - 6/12/2006 8:44:18 AM

Sab

Posts: 325
Joined: 5/2/2006
From: Canada
Status: offline

Communication is the key when you first begin in this lifestyle. If you have a dom/me who is trying to 'get' you to do things you are not comfortuble with yet - don't do them. The process of communicating your needs as well as the dom/me is, and should be, and expected point. A beginning is just that, the beginning - and give it time for you both to get to know each other - and moreso, what you want out of the relationship. That way you have a firm basis of NOT second-guessing the dominant.

_____________________________

God blessed it and it brought me to her.

(in reply to darkinshadows)

Post #: 27

RE: Question for A/all - 6/12/2006 8:47:47 AM

darkinshadows

Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline

If you are feeling that your needs are not being met, then you need to be strong and communicate that to him. He cannot help you if you do not open up to him. If you feel that the relationship isn't allowing you to grow - you already know the answer yourself. But if you do not tell him your concerns, you are doing him an injustice. He cannot deal with problems if he doesnt know they exist. It could be, he is completely happy and will refuse what you need. In that case, it is possible you are just not compatable and need to move on.

Peace and Rapture

_____________________________

.dark.

...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to litleone8620)

Post #: 28

RE: Question for A/all - 6/12/2006 8:49:43 AM

wild1cfl

Posts: 567
Joined: 4/19/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: litleone8620

but if the Dominant doesnt give either rewards, or punishment, isn't the submissive going to question Him? i think that is why i am not second guessing my decision to enter into the lifestyle, i'm second guessing my decision to be with the Master i am with. W/we live apart, and we scene a couple times a week, yet i feel as if i'm not getting any discipline, or punishment. i get plenty of rewards in the form of spankings, and such.

but to get back on topic; doesn't a Master have to establish His dominance over the submissive, and if He doesn't, won't the submissive second guess herself?

Littleone,
Have you done something wrong that you need to be punished for? I have 3 children that my wife and I have raised and yes we have had to punish them for doing something wrong that they KNOW is wrong. the reason they know it is wrong is that we have previously discussed what is right and wrong and they are expected to be accountable.
I feel from this post that you are confusing the whole issue here. During play with your Dom he spanks you and it is a reward because you enjoy being spanked and he enjoys spanking you, this is BDSM play. Now has your Dom tried to teach you anything such as for an example, massage techniques or how he wants you to sit in front of him? If he has and you are not doing it right he might want to give you some discipline, or reenforcing the initial intructions. If you are not doing it right because you do not care about doing it right then he should punish you. Is this helping to make the whole discpline/punishment question a little clearer?

Wild

(in reply to litleone8620)

Post #: 29

RE: Question for A/all - 6/12/2006 8:50:25 AM

BreakMeShakeMe

Posts: 339
Joined: 6/6/2006
Status: offline

Sets about setting up flame resistance armor..... because I've got something to say..and I just know..some are not going to like this.

Over the course of the past few months on CM. I've seen in other post about punishments... rewards... training.... different dynamics of individual relationships and situations. And i'm not knocking each individuals way of life. What I'm doing is trying to understand why... or how... is it... that most on here seem to think...that in order to have a sub/slave.... they have to be stupid. Maybe stupid is the wrong word... so let's try..a child... they have to be taught this...taught that....trained to do this... trained to do that....if they do not do this... they don't get this.. they do not get that.....they will get this... they will get that. So it makes me wonder... when does the sub/slave become the adult you want to spend your life with? Because it sure seems most not all doms....are not interested in the sub/slave for who they already are. Most want to change the person they sought out to make their own. If there are so many flaws... why bother? Sure there might be 1 or 2 that can be over looked... talked about... removed or corrected even. But when there's a handful... hell.. let's just remodel them and make them what I want. And then when the remodeling doesn't go fast enough.... or right.... here goes the velcro collars.

Then you got the "punishment". When my slave does this... doesn't do that.. I punish them. Forget the fact that everyday life might of stepped in. Forget the fact that sometimes... just sometimes.. things are forgotten.... side tracked.... unable to do for whatever reason. So let's just punish them and make sure it doesn't happen again. Treat them like a child because they're acting like a child because the so called adult didn't get what they wanted, the way they wanted, when they wanted. So the dom is going to "teach them a lesson". Pfffttttt.....

And I got to wonder... the sub/slaves... that forget that they are people too. That feel that if they do not do everything totally perfect the first time each and everytime... they deserve to be punished... treated like a child... ridiculed to feel less than who they are. (If this is your kink.. kewl.. this is not about individuals personal kinks). Same thing with sub/slaves as with the doms. There's 1 or 2 things as far as flaws goes that can be worked with. But a handful... why bother? I can understand about wanting to learn..explore limits... expand ones experiences.... but when you know... and stand firm... why be pressured? Threated to be punished if you do not let go of your limits? Who you allow your previous boyfriend and or husband to threaten you for refusing the same thing? If so.. why leave them? Just submit to them.

So the bottom line is.... when does one actually become adults? Sometimes people come on here and act like (according to post) that this is nothing but a game. Not a life. One can live the life they have chosen and make a game out of it at certain times. ( There are places...get togethers... parties....etc...for such times) But according to some...hell...alot of the postings going in lately... the whole thing.. thoughts.. ideas... are nothing but parts of a game.

Now as I stated... this isn't how i've noticed everyone responding on here. Just a lot more than usual. This isn't about everyone.. this is about seeing more and more of it coming about on here.

There's no second quessing the dom.. if things are put up front...and time is taken before jumping through hoops. MHOO gave to great examples. Second guessing about the rent...to me.. isn't second guessing... it 's making sure things that are important...are taken care of first. It's not second guessing to remind a dom of a hard limit. How one learns..and grows... is by comunicating. Reminding one of a hard limit.... making sure rent gets paid.... showing that one can and will be responsible....as a submissive....and an adult. A child would be quick to jump at the beach instead of paying the rent. A responsible sub/slave would state.. the rent needs to be paid.

I just don't understand... how others.. will refuse to be in one relationship...because of one or two reason.. but will jump into a d/s or m/s one... that does the same thing. It's just got a title attatched to it. I've personally always stated... I left one relationship because of being treated one way... so why in the hell would I go into another ....and allow it to happen again. All because he my dom...and not husband or boyfriend... why should I let him treat me the same way? No..I think not. So there for... i'm not submissive... i'm being uncontrollable... bratty... ...No.... i'm being who I am... one that knows what I want.. what I won't tolerate...and won't change my whole being for no one.

Now I don't expect all to be like me. We're all different. I know others out there live like they do because it's what they want....and that's all fine and dandy. It's always nice... to find one.. that accepts us for who we are... not what they want out of someone.

Ok done with my thoughts here... not ment to offend no one... or no ones kinks... it's just an observation of what i've personally seen coming into the life lately.

Jessica

_____________________________

Wisdom is knowing what to do, Skill is knowing how to, Virtue is just doing it.

(in reply to PhoenixLM)

Post #: 30

RE: Question for A/all - 6/12/2006 8:54:07 AM

slavejlb

Posts: 446
Joined: 5/19/2006
Status: offline

Greetings
If a master does not set boundries then i can understand the confusion set in a sub/slave mind. but also she has the right question even if he/she cares for the sub/slave. But also the master might regret not setting boundire early, for it is like a parent who let a child run amuck, or a horse owner letting the mare run to long in the field, it is not so easy to bring them back in,. they are use to having their own way, and like that child who will rebell when the boundres are set, or the mare who will buck when the fence is close, the Master will have the same problem.
take care and be safe
slave java

(in reply to litleone8620)

Post #: 31

RE: Question for A/all - 6/12/2006 8:54:32 AM

CelticDawn

Posts: 21
Joined: 4/1/2006
Status: offline

There are many ways of establishing control through strength that does not have to involve punishment. The problem here is establishing what is punishment suppose to be. Punishment in our book is what you do to correct a problem or behavior. It is NEVER something enjoyed, it is always approbriate for the situation, and designed to teach a lesson.

We never play punish, a person wants to scene thats one thing, but if you have to cause real problems to get what you need there is something wrong in the relationship. My rule of thumb is this if something in the back of your head says there is a problem somewhere in this relationship LISTEN TO IT!

It is the Master/Mistress DUTY to spell things our clearly so trust can be developed and problems like this can be avoided. So I suggest you look at things real close and see if that communication thing can be better used.

(in reply to Sab)

Post #: 32

RE: Question for A/all - 6/12/2006 8:55:40 AM

marieToo

Posts: 3595
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Jersey
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: litleone8620

but if the Dominant doesnt give either rewards, or punishment, isn't the submissive going to question Him? i think that is why i am not second guessing my decision to enter into the lifestyle, i'm second guessing my decision to be with the Master i am with. W/we live apart, and we scene a couple times a week, yet i feel as if i'm not getting any discipline, or punishment. i get plenty of rewards in the form of spankings, and such.

but to get back on topic; doesn't a Master have to establish His dominance over the submissive, and if He doesn't, won't the submissive second guess herself?

Are you sure you each want the same thing? Could it be that all he wants is to scene a couple times a week, but you want more of a solid ds relationship? Just putting it out there as food for thought.

(in reply to litleone8620)

Post #: 33

RE: Question for A/all - 6/12/2006 8:58:07 AM

wild1cfl

Posts: 567
Joined: 4/19/2004
Status: offline

BreakmeShakeme.
Very well written and very thoughtful post. I very much agree with you and see your point. I for one look for people who are intelligent from the start, it is so much easier for us.

Wild

(in reply to BreakMeShakeMe)

Post #: 34

RE: Question for A/all - 6/12/2006 9:23:17 AM

litleone8620

Posts: 3669
Joined: 6/12/2006
Status: offline

to the people who are asking if i feel if i've done something deserving of punishment: i haven't. i'm second guessing my Master because He hasn't set boundaries for me. W/we've been scening now for over four months, and He has yet to tell me what is right or wrong.

This is why i am second guessing Him. How can i trust Him when He doesn't set boundaries for me?

(in reply to wild1cfl)

Post #: 35

RE: Question for A/all - 6/12/2006 9:30:03 AM

litleone8620

Posts: 3669
Joined: 6/12/2006
Status: offline

to all the people who are asking if i feel if i've done something deserving of punishment: i haven't. i'm second guessing my Master because He hasn't set boundaries for me. W/we've been scening for over four months and He has yet to tell me what He feels is right and wrong.

This is why i am second guessing Him. How can i trust Him whe He doesn't seem to trust in His own dominance over me? He shows this by not setting boundaries for me. How am i able to believe that if and when i screw up, He will deliver the right punishment, or discipline.

i understand that when He spanks me, He does it for both O/our pleasure, and it isn't a punishment. Could it be He just doesn't know HOW to punish me?

that was an excellent post BreakMeShakeMe

(in reply to wild1cfl)

Post #: 36

RE: Question for A/all - 6/12/2006 9:31:27 AM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

So the question is one of boundaries, really. Do you live together? Otherwise 4 months of weekends at your age is just a small-fuckfest and hardly enough time to consider ins and outs of relations.

If you desire meaningful responses, you may have to explicate the situation in more depth or it is like me winking at a pretty girl in the dark. I know what I'm thinking.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to litleone8620)

Post #: 37

RE: Question for A/all - 6/12/2006 9:34:14 AM

darkinshadows

Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline

I agree. This isnt an issue about punishments or discipline or second guessing. Its about the fact you havent been given boundries and expectations. Theres no communication, no discussion - just scening? You want more - you have to communicate it and if he doesn't, then move on, as painful as that may be.

Peace and Rapture

_____________________________

.dark.

...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to mnottertail)

Post #: 38

RE: Question for A/all - 6/12/2006 10:01:08 AM

litleone8620

Posts: 3669
Joined: 6/12/2006
Status: offline

no, W/we do not live together, but i live by myself, so it's more time together than just four months of 'fuck-fests'.

i think W/we have been together long enough to set boundaries, but it seems as if He is hesitant, and that is making me question Him.

(in reply to mnottertail)

Post #: 39

RE: Question for A/all - 6/12/2006 10:14:28 AM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

quote:

enough time to ask and form your own answers to these questions BEFORE you find yourself in a situation you had no idea you were getting into.

quote:

ORIGINAL: litleone8620

no, W/we do not live together, but i live by myself, so it's more time together than just four months of 'fuck-fests'.

i think W/we have been together long enough to set boundaries, but it seems as if He is hesitant, and that is making me question Him.

Have you ACTUALLY questioned him in anyplace else other than your mind and a cyber board?

That's not second guessing, that's getting the information. Have you ACTUALLY asked him "Is there a reason you haven't set specific behavioral guidelines?"

My guess is that you want your leash pulled, you want your sub fuzzies by being directly told what to do, be a good eager puppy and go off and obey, or lay down and take your beating like you want.

Nothing wrong with this...except you've committed yourself to a situation that won't give you anything that you want.

Now, take action and communicate honestly.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to litleone8620)

Post #: 40

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