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The wrong way - 9/6/2012 7:30:21 PM   
Missokyst


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Kind of a rant I guess, but also a question.

I have been sort of tossing this around in my mind since the year 1999, and every now and then topics come up in various groups that have led to reinforce the knowlege that I came into BDSM in the bad, evil, wrong way. You know the patter... "We are normal, just like everyone else only kinky. We did not develop this interest from any sort of abuse, it is just who we are." This is always said defensively, largely I believe because until very recently BDSM was considered a mental disorder by the psychiatric community (DSM-IV).

When movies like "Secretary", "Nine & a Half Weeks", or even "Blue Velvet" came out there was a huge cry out of the community declaring that these depictions cast a negative view of practioners of BDSM because the movies show them to be crazy, nutcases who came to be that way due to mental, emotional, or physical abuse when growing up. When books like "The Story of O", "The Beauty Series", and now "50 Shades of Gray", are discussed I hear the same distaste of those books for the same reasons.

We are not like those damaged people!

Ok that's fine. I would say that many people did find out about BDSM in a clean wholesome way. Either by ferreting out their parents hidden stash of porn magazines, or discovering it on the Web, or introduced to it by a partner whose interest swung in a kinky direction. I am going to say that especially now, there are more people who have discovered their kinky side because there is MUCH greater access to it than there was when it was thrust upon me.

I came by this early on, sometimes innocently, sometimes marked by extreme events in my childhood. My gravitation toward becoming submissive was more due to it being the only option if I wanted affection. My being obedient had more to do with the disregard which was given as a result or not being the "example child", the one pointed to in pride because I would quietly draw or read on the porch as my cousins made raucous noise while playing in the yard. My natural inclination to prevent myself from being the best was my survival tactic for not having things taken from me. I learned to submit or figure my way around submitting when absolutely necessary. I became a masochist because if you are not allowed to cry, if you are not allowed to scream, if you are not allowed to yell at your mother about her statement that a victim of rape usually did something to make it happen, you are not allowed to voice those things.. those dirty things that people did without having things turned on you by words like, "well maybe you shouldn't have bothered those boys", Or smacked on the ass for wetting your pants when it was THEY who did that to you. When you have to keep in all the sad it WILL seek an outlet. Mine was pain.

So.. I came by BDSM in the bad, evil, wrong way. The way others point to as the sick way because of course it is not the way they were introduced to BDSM. And in 1999 when I began to find more and more people who had expressed interest in this kink but may or may not have tried it, even my friends, even those I spent some physical time with would say things like anyone who had such and such experience early in their lives must be too damaged to act like the rest of us, never knowing that the stories I wrote were all too real. And I was too ashamed to admit that I was different than they, and once again heard that old familar tune in my head, less than, wrong, bad, damaged, not good enough, despite the fact that I was beyond successful at that time in my life and had excelled in most things I tried.

I will say this about that. If it were not for people such as I; and those who came into this for centuries before me, would this non traditional way of engaging in physical, mental or emotional play would have spread so far and wide? I have learned to embrace at least this part of who I am and how I got here. Those kinky roots are buried deep, but they did stem from something in the days before the web made it trendy and available to all.

At least from my POV, this is perversion. And I embrace it. Do you embrace it regardless of how you got here?

_____________________________

pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
― Bob Marley

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RE: The wrong way - 9/6/2012 10:33:01 PM   
MistressDarkArt


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Missokyst



At least from my POV, this is perversion. And I embrace it. Do you embrace it regardless of how you got here?


Yes. It's been my SOP for 40 years, and probably longer if I really think back.

It's kinda like when people ask me what I think will happen when I die. I tell them I don't spend brain cells thinking about what it was like before I was born. Same with death.

Same with BDSM/Ds. No horrible childhood here. No internet back in the early 70s when I began to recognize and engage this element of myself. Wired that way, nothing more or less.

< Message edited by MistressDarkArt -- 9/6/2012 10:40:41 PM >

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RE: The wrong way - 9/6/2012 10:46:02 PM   
Greta75


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I see bdsm as something that comforts me the way chocolate does.
And it really doesn't matter what your life experiences are.
Take me for example. When I was molested at 10, while feelings of shock, disbelief and shame and anger came into play, something else rear even higher. Sexual turn on, and constantly reliving it in my head and actually want it to happen again in a consensual non-consensual setting. Was it really that experience that brought out this in me, or was I just born with it?

I think I was just born with it. As I would presume, most regular molest victims, do not want to reenact the experience over and over again and actually find pleasure in doing so.

It's the unfortunate circumstances of discovery that may make it seem like bad experiences made turn me this way, but it really wasn't. If I haven't had it in me, then it would never be there, regardless of bad experiences, infact, it would be turn me off further from it, but it did not.

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 9/6/2012 10:47:20 PM >

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RE: The wrong way - 9/6/2012 10:53:15 PM   
JanahX


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I dont embrace it, as much as: its just what I do -

How I got here - it dosent even matter, and when people ask - I do my lawyer thing, and answer the question with a question, - which is: what does it matter? Its right about then, I can check off another "DUH" moment in their lives.

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The second rule of Fight Club is you do not talk about Fight Club.


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RE: The wrong way - 9/6/2012 10:56:15 PM   
LadyHibiscus


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My grandfather called my grandmother, 'boss'. My mom...is a force of nature. I didn't grow up in a d/s environment, but women were in charge in my world.

I have always been an edge person, on the outside looking in. I've never been raped or sexually abused. I have never been 'normal', so I never sought to have more than the disguise of normalcy.

There isn't a 'right way' of getting here. I do think that it's not the best environment for some people. BDSM is not a replacement for therapy, it's not a cure all for life's ills.

_____________________________

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RE: The wrong way - 9/6/2012 11:15:44 PM   
tsatske


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I'm crazy. I might have been born this way - it's certainly in the family line. And my first memories are of having what are clearly, in retrospect, hullicinations, around 2 or 3. I might be crazy because I had a Sybol-esque childhood. Or it might be both.

Being sub might be part of me being cray-cray. Or it might be that I was born this way. Or it might be a weird mix of the two.

either way, I just embrace who I am. I'm an endorphine addict that likes to be beaten - and likes other pain play. I like obiedence and am joyous in my submission. I just am who I am.

_____________________________

“If you never did you should. These things are fun and fun is good”
~Dr. Seuss quote

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RE: The wrong way - 9/7/2012 12:40:09 AM   
SailingBum


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I dont think any further than I like doing what I do. Yes it's really that simple.

BadOne

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We are all so very lucky to have you with us to impart your great wisdom.

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RE: The wrong way - 9/7/2012 2:34:29 AM   
Alecta


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Look at it this way: if you didn't have whatever it is, be it a personality streak or a physical/genetic/hormonal trait, that gravitated you towards your BDSM nature to begin with, would you have responded to the circumstances that "opened your eyes to it" the same way?

The routes we take may be different, but the place we arrive at is the same. It doesn't matter HOW we got there, it's what we do once we're there that really matters.

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RE: The wrong way - 9/7/2012 4:11:23 AM   
DarkSteven


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My parents were ill-matched. My father was a natural Dom and had a really hard time if he wasn't in control. Unfortunately, he was brought up to believe that having that control was bad, so he was conflicted. My mother was a goshawful mess who had an aversion to having control over anyone but herself but was damned if she'd relinquish control to anyone, even as she repeatedly made foolish, impulsive decisions.

So I grew up with a conflicted Dom for a role model. I too feel more comfortable in control, but am hesitant to grab control too quickly.

Back in high school, I got turned on a lot when girls would get caught and spanked on their birthdays.

It never came together until I got on the Internet.

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

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RE: The wrong way - 9/7/2012 4:40:13 AM   
Endivius


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I'm pretty sure I'm all kinds of fucked up. I'm ok with it though. I coulda been a monster or a priest (no pun intended). I think the events that shape our lives are not nearly as important as our individual interpretations of them and our reactions to them. The same event to siblings could turn one into a murderer and the other into a teacher. So what separates them? Who knows? I sure as hell don't. I've been through some wicked shit, hell I think everyone goes through some tough times in thier lives, it's just different strokes of the same brush. I don't really analyze why I like what I like. Something about watching a woman reduce herself to her most depraved, basic, self is really hot to me. And, I have found from personal experience, that when the shackles that bind desire are cast off, she'll crawl on broken glass to please me with a smile on her face. There is something about that kind of depraved lustful shameless strength that is a massive turn on for me. Embrace it? Hell I wouldn't want to live any other way.

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Basically if you can't inspire someone to trust you deeply, you aren't going to be able to buy that or a reasonable facsimile thereof. -DesFIP

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RE: The wrong way - 9/7/2012 6:08:22 AM   
WomanlyWiles


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It seems to me like any other cross section of the population. For what it's worth I had what's referred to as a dysfunctional upbringing, and was in an abusive relationship for many years. It meant that when I was toying with seeking a bdsm relationship, I spent many months thinking about my background, my strengths, weakness, desires etc and vowed to either do it properly or not at all. And properly, for me, meant within a relationship with a compatible sub. And now, here I am, all loved up and sickeningly happy with Psycho.

eta We're both pretty fucked up and on shitloads of medication. But it works.

< Message edited by WomanlyWiles -- 9/7/2012 6:09:35 AM >

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RE: The wrong way - 9/7/2012 6:30:36 AM   
SimplyMichael


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Society thinks it is healthy, but what is their divorce rate, crime rate, etc. I think many who think they were normal just have a skewed view of normal.

I know my ability to seem empathic comes from dealing with a mother with anger issues and I could go on.

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RE: The wrong way - 9/7/2012 7:06:00 AM   
KnightofMists


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Frankly, I don't get the this way that ay right wrong way attitude tha seems to be around or understand the normal or kinky or vanilla or the perverted groups and lines that supposedly divide people into the various camps.

To me it really does matter where you came from or where you are going. Not Worried that you travel a different road and want to end up at a different place.

But, I do hope that you are embracing your life and each step is enhancing you and these you care about. I know I am. Second thing I hope for that regardless of our different paths or destinations, we can respect and embrace each others right to have those differences.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

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RE: The wrong way - 9/7/2012 7:40:52 AM   
Missokyst


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I perfer to think that people who engage in BDSM do it because they love it. I do it because for what ever reasons I took my life experiences and converted them to pleasure. I do it because for me there is no other way. Most importantly, I do it because it is and may have always been my nature. And I do it because it frekkin feels good.
But it does bother me that to this day people will hue and cry out that this presentation or that is not the norm. Because there are no norms. Some of us DID come this way by being forced down a wrong path. And some of us willingly followed another.
It is like being a MAC or a PC. People tend to give props to their choice as being the best and poo poo's the other brand. But the fact is they both give us the same pleasure.


< Message edited by Missokyst -- 9/7/2012 7:42:07 AM >


_____________________________

pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
― Bob Marley


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RE: The wrong way - 9/7/2012 7:42:34 AM   
LillyBoPeep


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Pain was an easy outlet for me for yucky emotional junk that I felt I couldn't express otherwise. I was into cutting for a few years, but the masochism thingie was present before that began.
On one hand, it was just something I could do by myself that seemed to make me feel better. Then as I got older, it developed a sexual component, but I didn't really understand it.

I have an "incident" in my past, at a very early age, and I dunno if I'd have ended up the same if that had never happened. Who knows.

But I don't really dwell on it, because I'd rather not ruin something that I enjoy by linking it to something groadie. So whatever. =p

I've had the "hey! we're not all damaged people!" reaction myself, but also, maybe being damaged isn't so bad. I'm not a perfect glossy person, I've got nicks and scratches, gouges, broken bits, parts glued back together. That's just a part of life.

I think the problem is that people assume that damage is automatically negative. I don't believe it is anymore.

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"Obey your Master." Metallica


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RE: The wrong way - 9/7/2012 7:46:41 AM   
Missokyst


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For me damage just means an opportunity to make it better. Like my car, which I bought used with a ding or two, now it is the striped, painted, and .. well.. show offy and in no way is as dull as the original.


quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep

I think the problem is that people assume that damage is automatically negative. I don't believe it is anymore.



_____________________________

pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
― Bob Marley


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RE: The wrong way - 9/7/2012 10:39:55 AM   
Winterapple


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I don't think anyone makes it to adulthood
without damage and I think usually the people
who are noisy about saying they aren't are
just whistling as they walk by the graveyard.
I don't believe any adult is a clean slate as
a human being either.

Stigmatizing be it from outside the camp
or inside it is annoying for just that reason.
All people are strange when you look at
them beyond the surface. It's not a
replacement for therapy but sometimes
certain things have a therapeutic effect.

I don't think there's a right way or a wrong
way just each individuals personal way.
I get weary of some of the judgements
but human nature is what it is.

I'm not really interested in overthinking
it or analyzing it very much. I don't feel
like it's a burden, it's not a source of
angst for me. I don't think I look at it
in terms of embracing it or even needing
to accept it anymore. It's a part of who
I am but just a part amongst other parts.
It isn't my identity or métier or something
my whole sense of being would collapse
without.


_____________________________

A thousand dreams within me softly burn.
Rimbaud




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RE: The wrong way - 9/7/2012 1:19:09 PM   
DesFIP


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My parents did the best they could with the hands they had been dealt. Have I made the same mistakes raising my kids? Some but mainly I made new ones. There was no abuse.

I've always posited that some of my submissiveness is the result of pediatric onset chronic, clinical depression some 30odd years before the development of SSRIs.

But I've got an adolescent onset bipolar, mixed states, offspring with huge amounts of depressive cycle and small manic, who isn't the least submissive. So obviously my assumption is wrong.

As far as being kinky, I have no idea where that comes from. I've wanted to be tied up from an age prior to puberty. It wasn't sexual then. These days it is. No clue where that comes from either. I do know that I live in my head most of the time and that bondage and sensation play put me in the moment, in my feelings like nothing else I've ever done. For me, that's good enough. I don't need to know why it works to enjoy it any more than I need to know why dark chocolate is so satisfying. It just is and that's good enough.

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Cynical and proud of it!


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RE: The wrong way - 9/7/2012 1:35:21 PM   
CRYPTICLXVI


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Good childhood, traumatic teen years, twenties spent searching, thirties bad marriage, into my own in my forties.
I have always made my own decisons, good, bad or destructive or neutral. Who knows why I got here? If I was still in my twenties, I
would try to figure it out, now I just am... Alligator clips.

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RE: The wrong way - 9/7/2012 2:01:04 PM   
fucktoyprincess


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I do agree that people find their way into the BDSM world in a wide variety of ways. Perhaps infinite, as we are each unique, after all.

There are two things that concern me when people speak of coming to BDSM in the "evil wrong way", to use the original poster's words.

One, I think there has been a tendency in the vanilla world to view everyone who comes to BDSM as being fatally flawed, and that it is this flaw that draws them to these desires with the implication being that someone who has never had evil/trauma in their past would never be interested in or even enjoy BDSM. As someone who didn't get here in the "evil wrong way", so to speak, I do get defensive because I feel one should not draw one conclusion or another about someone's past experiences simply because they happen to be into BDSM. I would never assume anything about past experiences, childhood trauma, rape, clinical depression, hating one's mother, child of a divorced household (the list goes on and on), but my point is, without talking to someone who is into BDSM I would NEVER automatically assume that one's interest in BDSM, combined with one's preferred role and interests says anything about one's past, or one's psychological make up. And it is that approach that I object to. An assumption that if someone likes BDSM and enjoys being submissive/Dominant that people feel they suddenly feel they can draw a conclusion about their past, or about their psychological state. WRONG. Just plain wrong. We are each individuals, and many different paths can bring someone here. I have no clue if more people who are into BDSM came here the "evil wrong way" or not. But certainly some here (maybe even a majority) did not. So whenever encountering anyone in this BDSM world, I think one should not assume anything.

Second, to the extent that one is here due to past "trauma" of whatever sort, I do honestly believe that one needs to also resolve these issues with a therapist/counseling to truly leave the psychological baggage behind. I speak as someone who has been involved with Dominants who had unresolved issues from their past. This is not about removing the BDSM interests to make the person "normal" by some vanilla definition. This is about enabling someone to confront their past, resolve it, truly get past it, so they can move on to healthier relationships (which may or may not involve BDSM). But it is my honest belief, especially as someone who as experienced the ill-effects (extreme) of being in a relationship with someone damaged, that BDSM is not a "cure" for things one may have experienced. I believe one should still seek the necessary assistance to resolve the issues of the past, so that one can move forward, even in the BDSM world, in a constructive way. Of course, it is sometimes possible for people to recover from past trauma on their own with no ill effect on their relationships going forward, but I would think this the exception rather than the rule.

I mean no offense to anyone here by these statements, and am not implying anything about anyone on this thread, and sincerely hope what I say will be understood in the way I meant it. Everyone, relish your uniqueness, but also understand that just as our physical bodies need care and healing at times, our psychological selves need the same thing. And BDSM is neither physical nor psychological health care.

< Message edited by fucktoyprincess -- 9/7/2012 2:06:59 PM >


_____________________________

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