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RE: Big Ben - 6/20/2006 12:20:31 AM   
Lordandmaster


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Rabies is a more serious problem in the United States than you're making it out to be.  Read this:

http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dvrd/rabies/Epidemiology/Epidemiology.htm

About 8% of reported rabies cases involve domestic animals(http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dvrd/rabies/Professional/publications/Surveillance/Surveillance04/Rabiessurv04.pdf).  You can be sure that rate would be MUCH higher if it weren't for mandatory vaccinations.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Emperor1956

The disease is virtually nonexistent in the United States, now (although you can argue if you are clever that it is nonexistent because of mandatory vaccinations).  Yet we do it because we, as a society, have decided that it is better to spend the money and take the risks than have the disease indigineous to our pet populations.

(in reply to Emperor1956)
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RE: Big Ben - 6/20/2006 3:22:58 AM   
Level


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quote:

ORIGINAL: maybemaybenot


Uhh huh,, I know the story.. but TO is always a good boy his first year. Lest we not forget who your QB is. < and i Loved him while he was here, but he was and is inconsistant and jittery/panicky > 

                     mbmbn


Bledsoe in the pocket >>>> ........

(in reply to maybemaybenot)
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RE: Big Ben - 6/20/2006 3:46:17 AM   
ShiftedJewel


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quote:

The single compelling reason for mandatory helmet laws is not to save the rider, but to save society from the consequences of a decision by a rider not to wear a helmet.


And what consequences would that be? Society has to be saved from helmetless riders???? If you are talking about medical costs to the state and things like that... well... how about we go all out and mandate birthcontrol and early sterization of America's youth? How much do you figure unwanted pregnancies are costing the country in medical costs? Then there is weight related health issues to deal with too. Gonna mandate that one too? And yes, I feel the same way about seat belts. I have a brother that died because he wasn't wearing one and a cousin that died because she was wearing one. All of this crap going on now days is simply a case of the government chipping away at our rights to make our own decisions and using the excuse that it's for the good of society. All it is good for is big brother and the ability to make more and more money off of the average person.
 
quote:

So the issue to me is barely one of legality -- it is one of morality.  Do you choose to do what feels good to you, or do you do what society (in its best but often imperfect judgement) asks you to do? 

 
The issue is completely about legality and morality has absolutely nothing to do with it. If you believe that all these issues are in fact based on morality then I would suggest that you step away from the computer and never log on to this site again because if you believe that society has the right to press their morality on to others by passing unacceptable laws then you do not belong on a site that goes completely against what society deems as moral. I do what I believe is my right to do, I choose to go against the overbearing weight of societal constructs and live my live as I choose to and I'm not alone. Every person on this site has made the decision to go against what the rest of society has decided was wrong, you included.
 
I used to tend bar and one afternoon a gentleman came in and sat a Bible on the bar and order a beer.. after several beers he started preaching to me about the evil life I was living because I served alcohol in a biker bar... I let him know exactly how I felt about hypocrits and threw him out. Gosh, I don't know why that story came to mind... do you?

Personally... I believe there are some people that have absolutely no right to preach morals to other people.

< Message edited by ShiftedJewel -- 6/20/2006 3:47:48 AM >


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Don't ask, trust me, you won't like the answer... no one ever does.

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RE: Big Ben - 6/20/2006 4:09:17 AM   
SirCumsSlut


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Get my two cents in before the thread goes totally over to the up coming football season (E A G L E S....EAGLES)  sorry.
 
Anyway, yes Ben should not have been riding without a helmet because he did not have the mandatory 2 yrs riding experience which is written into the Pennsylvania law.  Now as to no license.........bad Ben, if it were any of us everyday people, damn we would be under the jail.  anyway...
 
Helmets do not always save lives......Do any of you realize that a helmet is tested at speeds of 15 miles an hour???  Now what biker, or motorcyclist is going 15 miles an hour when they had their accident....I have a dear friend who was riding his bike and wearing a helmet in Ohio, he was in a major accident, and thanks to the helmet he suffered a severe fractured skull and a broken neck which has left him permanently paralized and memory loss....the doctors and state police both said that if he had not been wearing a helmet his injuries would have been less severe, ie the skull fracture.  You see, due to the impact of the accident, the helmet (the thing that was supposed to protect his head) collapsed like a mellon around his head in turn causing the fracture to his skull, and when the paramedics, against the advice of police officers, removed his helmet they caused more extensive injuries to his spinal cord which resulted in his paralization. 
 
A person's right to choose is just that his or her right......the Pennsylvania helmet law is one like so many other states have.....you can wear one if you want or you cannot wear one as long as you have TWO years riding experience and take the required bike safety and riding classes when first getting license. 
 
And as to the NFL big wigs, telling players via contract that they cannot ride bikes......BULLSHIT

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Peace
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"Your firm hand and compassionate heart are what guide me in my journey....I am Yours, Sir" His slut

(in reply to ShiftedJewel)
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RE: Big Ben - 6/20/2006 8:01:26 AM   
stef


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SirCumsSlut

Helmets do not always save lives......

Nothing is 100%, but in the overwhelming majority of incidents, they can save the wearer from serious injury.  The same can be said for seatbelts.  In certain limited instances, they can fail to protect or even contribute to an injury, but those situations are a tiny fraction of the overall picture.  Want to be 100% safe?  Don't ride/drive.  Want to be as safe as you can?  Wear a helmet/seatbelt.  It's not rocket science.
 
quote:

Do any of you realize that a helmet is tested at speeds of 15 miles an hour???  Now what biker, or motorcyclist is going 15 miles an hour when they had their accident....

According to the Hurt Report in 1981 and backed up by the COST 327 study in 1999,  half of all serious motorcycle accidents occur at speeds below 25 MPH.  Unless the rider is thrown from the bike and hits an upright stationary object, the speed of primary impact (the one that causes the most damage during an accident) is generally equal to the accelleration from gravity from the height from which the helmet drops.  One of the main conclusions of the Hurt Report was that the vast majority of crash damaged helmets examined showed they had absorbed roughly the same amount of impact you would receive if you just fell over while standing (like a bowling pin tipping over) and hit your head on the pavement.  90+% of head impacts surveyed produced equal to or less than the force involved in a seven foot drop. 99 percent of the impacts were at or below the energy of a 10-foot drop.  Lateral speed does not necessarily translate into impact velocity and is somewhat of a red herring in this discussion.
 
quote:

I have a dear friend who was riding his bike and wearing a helmet in Ohio, he was in a major accident, and thanks to the helmet he suffered a severe fractured skull and a broken neck which has left him permanently paralized and memory loss....the doctors and state police both said that if he had not been wearing a helmet his injuries would have been less severe, ie the skull fracture.  You see, due to the impact of the accident, the helmet (the thing that was supposed to protect his head) collapsed like a mellon around his head in turn causing the fracture to his skull, and when the paramedics, against the advice of police officers, removed his helmet they caused more extensive injuries to his spinal cord which resulted in his paralization.
 

I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to call bullshit here.  I'm an EMT and have spent over a decade cornerworking at motorcycle roadracing events.  I have seen hundreds of crashes that involved significant helmet impacts.  Assuming the helmet your friend was wearing wasn't one of those salad bowl beanies or a 20 year old fibreglass relic from Dickie Mann's closet; if the impact was sufficient enough to collapse his helmet, it would have collapsed his skull as well.  The helmet didn't cause the injury.

 
It's certainly possible that the ambulance personnel who responded to the incident didn't know the correct way to remove a helmet and exacerbated his spinal injury, and that's a terrible shame.  When I took my EMT class *mumble* years ago, helmet removal got only a cursory mention and it wasn't even something we practiced in class.  It wasn't even mentioned during the state certification testing.  I had to learn the correct way to do it from paramedics at a racetrack when I started cornerworking.  New EMTs I meet say the curriculum hasn't changed much in that regard so we spend a lot of time teaching the new kids what to do and I've probably taught 100 EMTs how to do it since then.  There's a reason I have a "DO NOT REMOVE THIS HELMET UNLESS YOU ARE TRAINED TO DO SO" sticker on the chinbar of my helmet.
 
quote:

A person's right to choose is just that his or her right......the Pennsylvania helmet law is one like so many other states have.....you can wear one if you want or you cannot wear one as long as you have TWO years riding experience and take the required bike safety and riding classes when first getting license. 

As a rider, I do think people should have the right to not wear a helmet if they choose.  I also think that those people forfiet the right to any medical care they can't pay for out of pocket should they require it.  Choose to ride without a helmet and you can suck it up if you crash and have head trauma.  If you need to be on a ventilator, you can stay on it until your money runs out then they pull the plug.  I don't need my insurance premuims going up to offset the cost of medical care for people too stupid to wear a helmet who turn themselves into turnips and require 24/7 medical care until they waste away into nothingness. 

 
If you're willing to pay that piper, feel free to ride without a helmet.
 
quote:

And as to the NFL big wigs, telling players via contract that they cannot ride bikes......BULLSHIT

The Steelers organization has built a franchise around Ben and have invested millions of dollars in the fact that he will stay healthy and lead their team for many years to come.  They have every right to put such restrictive clauses in his contract.  Many contracts for atheletes are written that include language that prohibits the signer from engaging in "risk taking" behavior.  It's hardly new and it's not going to end any time soon.
 
~stef

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(in reply to SirCumsSlut)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Big Ben - 6/20/2006 9:25:20 AM   
Emperor1956


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Shifted Jewel:  I will not reply to a rude, ad hominem attack.  Your reply serves to confirm both your lack of civility and intelligence.

E.

< Message edited by Emperor1956 -- 6/20/2006 9:34:35 AM >


_____________________________

"When you wake up, Pooh," said Piglet, "what's the first thing you say?"
"What's for breakfast? What do you say, Piglet?"
"I say, I wonder what's going to happen exciting today?"
Pooh nodded thoughtfully.
"It's the same thing," he said.

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Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Big Ben - 6/20/2006 9:31:44 AM   
Emperor1956


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quote:

SrCumsSlut:  And as to the NFL big wigs, telling players via contract that they cannot ride bikes......BULLSHIT


If you are saying "bullshit" to my assessment of the law, then I'd like to see your back-up.  I think you are talking out of your rear end.  I've represented professional athletes for more than 20 years of law practice and I can tell you that my analysis of the contract provision is EXACTLY correct. 

If you are saying "bullshit" because you don't believe the NFL should have that right then -- "shrug" that's your belief. 

And I think the thoughtful reply of Stef to your misstatements about helmet safety stand for themselves.

E

_____________________________

"When you wake up, Pooh," said Piglet, "what's the first thing you say?"
"What's for breakfast? What do you say, Piglet?"
"I say, I wonder what's going to happen exciting today?"
Pooh nodded thoughtfully.
"It's the same thing," he said.

(in reply to SirCumsSlut)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Big Ben - 6/20/2006 4:55:05 PM   
Lordandmaster


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Interesting, and I didn't know that.  But wouldn't a decision like that be subject to appeal by the players' union?  If I were a team, I'd assume it's a lot safer to write my own language into the contract than to rely on the commissioner's power to demand that a player cease "detrimental" conduct.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Emperor1956

PS -- The NFL contract has a clause that allows the commissioner to demand a player cease any conduct the commish deems "detrimental to the game".  I know.  I've read the standard contract.  That clause replaces the old "morals" clause (which is in there in an abbreviated form) and the decision of the commissioner is enforceable by fine and/or suspension.  They don't need a "helmet" clause.


< Message edited by Lordandmaster -- 6/20/2006 5:14:29 PM >

(in reply to Emperor1956)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Big Ben - 6/20/2006 5:03:24 PM   
SirCumsSlut


Posts: 433
Joined: 4/30/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Emperor1956

quote:

SrCumsSlut:  And as to the NFL big wigs, telling players via contract that they cannot ride bikes......BULLSHIT


If you are saying "bullshit" to my assessment of the law, then I'd like to see your back-up.  I think you are talking out of your rear end.  I've represented professional athletes for more than 20 years of law practice and I can tell you that my analysis of the contract provision is EXACTLY correct. 

If you are saying "bullshit" because you don't believe the NFL should have that right then -- "shrug" that's your belief. 

And I think the thoughtful reply of Stef to your misstatements about helmet safety stand for themselves.

E


I was referring to the fact that what one does in their private life is NO ONE'S BUSINESS........but will concede that legally it can put into a pro athlete's contract that they cannot do certain things I just don't feel it is right and that is my opinion....

As to Stef's reply, I thank Stef for it........I was told about the helmet causing the injury by his wife........as you see he cannot speak anymore......an no he wasn't wearing a "brain bucket" as they call them, but a fully approved helment......I did not get nasty with anyone, and so there is no need to flame at me.....was giving an example of just what standards helmets are judged by.........and to Stef....am thankful there are EMT's out there like you who KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING in these accidents

_____________________________

Peace
His slut


"Your firm hand and compassionate heart are what guide me in my journey....I am Yours, Sir" His slut

(in reply to Emperor1956)
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RE: Big Ben - 6/20/2006 6:02:14 PM   
maybemaybenot


Posts: 2817
Joined: 9/22/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Level



Bledsoe in the pocket >>>> ........


I had to look twice... I thought it was Brady in the Broncos/Pats AFC game 

                             mbmbn

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Tolerance of evil is suicide.- NYC Firefighter

When tolerance is not reciprocated, tolerance becomes surrender.

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