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RE: Some insight into the Arab riots. - 9/15/2012 9:50:24 PM

BamaD

Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

It is relativly simple.
1. non Muslims are infidels or pagans , both need to convert or die.
2. shrira is not a law of man but of Allah therefore all people must follow it
3. compasion in war is weakness bordering on cowardness and thus to be despised.
4. we must convert to thier laws completly
or
5. fight by their rules

their rules are even simpler

1. last man standing wins

< Message edited by BamaD -- 9/15/2012 9:52:47 PM >

(in reply to Aylee)

Post #: 101

RE: Some insight into the Arab riots. - 9/16/2012 1:48:18 AM

Rule

Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
Rule....hello Rule...I'm waiting...who has a plan that is working today?

Very little of political relevance occurs that has not been carefully planned for, sometimes decades in advance.

What is happening here is a Roman tactic to pacify and conquer non-Roman populations: prod them until some bite and then eliminate the biters. The difference is that the purpose of the Romans was to occupy countries, but in these days the purpose is to effect societal changes.

< Message edited by Rule -- 9/16/2012 2:22:47 AM >

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 102

RE: Some insight into the Arab riots. - 9/16/2012 1:55:37 AM

BenevolentM

Posts: 3394
Joined: 11/15/2006
Status: offline

"Israel had been loath to be seen as the aggressor back in 2006, and consequently suffered the consequences."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/joshua-gleis/another-middle-east-war-o_b_596755.html

(in reply to BenevolentM)

Post #: 103

RE: Some insight into the Arab riots. - 9/16/2012 2:17:58 AM

Rule

Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
Tell me what did I list that if implemented would not at least change the status quo…?

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
Pull all our troops out of Muslim nations…pull all our diplomats… stay the hell out of their business period.

The people who pull our strings have no interest in peace. They have power and other interests at heart. So: not going to happen.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
Let them kill each other all they want.

What do you think happened in all them Arabic Spring countries?

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
If they mess with us again bomb them to oblivion but put as few American children in danger as possible.

The people who pull our strings love for them to mess with us, for that enables them to pull our strings - just like they pull their strings. And if they refuse to mess with us, there is always the black ops to make us think that they did.
And as for the risk to our lives: we are pawns and some of us can be sacrificed.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
Invest in green alternate energy sources and break this dependence on oil…Oil is what is paying for the terrorists war.

Yep, and that is why they cannot win: they use it to buy our goods, stimulating our economies.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
Let them know we will not bother them if they forgo nuclear weapons and if they ignore us destroy their capabilities now...If it is war they want then now is better than later.

The people who pull our strings do not want peace. They want to achieve their objectives, whatever those are, and by any means possible, if economically feasible.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
Tell Israel to pull back the settlements and make peace or we will withdrawer support…Give them a time table and mean it…

Israel is one of the main prods of the people who pull our strings. So: not going to happen.

< Message edited by Rule -- 9/16/2012 2:21:11 AM >

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 104

RE: Some insight into the Arab riots. - 9/16/2012 2:43:20 AM

epiphiny43

Posts: 688
Joined: 10/20/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
Rule....hello Rule...I'm waiting...who has a plan that is working today?

Very little of political relevance occurs that has not been carefully planned for, sometimes decades in advance.

What is happening here is a Roman tactic to pacify and conquer non-Roman populations: prod them until some bite and then eliminate the biters. The difference is that the purpose of the Romans was tp occupy countries, but in these days the purpose is to effect societal changes.

Why people with real educations are populating the upper levels of State and the armed forces.
The Roman tactic only works if you are willing to kill till there are no 'biters' left. Depopulating whole districts and countries if that's what it takes. And it actually didn't work. Rome never had peace, just enforced calm. Any time the Legions were called too far away for some emergency, the more restive (not overwhelmingly populated by Roman citizens) provinces erupted in rebellion. What real peace existed was from recruiting most of the people into the Empire by language, religion and culture. Which could take several generations.
In current history US, Russian and Israeli attempts to cow opposition with 'shock and awe' or really determined military have been mostly futile (The results in Chechnya are not clear yet). It hasn't worked well at all. It almost works for the Saddams and Ayatollas and African dictators, for a while. But you have to be willing to spend the lives, blood and treasure to keep the growing opposition suppressed or dead. What usually happens is any survivors are instant recruits for the next wave of opposition, as President Assad is finding out daily. Effective suppression requires neighborhood level policing and intense secret police presence, all by people who speak the language which tends to damage all those hopes for lower taxes and lower body bag counts at the military air fields we don't want to read about?

People are taking US TV clips for reality. And sounding like idiots for it. ALL the protesters internationally so far at US embassies wouldn't fill a NBA arena. We get more people at important high school games down town than that. Most 'hateful' Muslims aren't thrilled about the US but are more energized by the thousand year long hatreds within the religion (Shiite vs Sunni, etc.) and with adjoining nationalities and religions. And most don't do crap about all that unless stirred up by agitators, and usually only then if there are local advantages to be had. There are always some disgruntled people who take whatever excuse to act out their dysfunction. Look at any right wing 'bomb them all to the stone age/glass' foreign policy recommendations heard in any bar in the country. Or from our more lovely contributors here. Non of whom have the slightest idea how to calculate just the monetary costs of that intensity level of military action (Far greater than the Iraq campaign) and less idea where to get the money.
The US won the Cold War by spending the USSR into bankruptcy trying to match our military. Then we forgot the lesson and keep over-reaching our capabilities in turn.

< Message edited by epiphiny43 -- 9/16/2012 2:51:28 AM >

(in reply to Rule)

Post #: 105

RE: Some insight into the Arab riots. - 9/16/2012 3:57:20 AM

Politesub53

Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

gallup polls though

The poll says nothing about what they think of America...just if they approved our actions in helping them with their revolution... Like I said before… they are willing to take our money and the lives of our children for their own benefit...but this does not say they respect us let alone like us.

Butch

A bare faced lie butch.

Taken from near the start of the article.

quote:

Record-High Support for U.S. Leadership in MENA Region: U.S. support for the Libyan revolution may have generated an almost unprecedented level of goodwill toward the U.S. In 2012, 54% of Libyans approve of U.S. leadership -- among the highest approval Gallup has ever recorded in the Middle East and North Africa region, outside of Israel.

< Message edited by Politesub53 -- 9/16/2012 4:02:04 AM >

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 106

RE: Some insight into the Arab riots. - 9/16/2012 4:01:33 AM

Politesub53

Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

Now you are losing the argument you are changing the debate. My remark about paranoia and knee jerk reactions was clearly in reply to your post that I quoted

Not at all politesub...they are expanding throughout the world...in every country where they take control they discriminate against minorities...otherwise non Muslims.

Movements like this have been ignored in the past with the result of tragedy and if you think it cannot happen again you are wrong. The freedoms of the western world are our defense against tyranny. Freedom of speech like it or not is the very bedrock of an enlightened civilization and worth fighting for even if we do not agree with what is said.

Butch

Butch, this is getting tedious.......... Where are they expanding that hasnt had a Muslim population for years ? My earlier post about the demonstration outside the US Embassy in London clearly shows there is no clamour to joins these extremist thugs. Its unlike you to generalise without any evidence.

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 107

RE: Some insight into the Arab riots. - 9/16/2012 5:50:47 AM

Owner59

Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM

"Israel had been loath to be seen as the aggressor back in 2006, and consequently suffered the consequences."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/joshua-gleis/another-middle-east-war-o_b_596755.html

Every bit of what Netanyahu is doing now, is about dragging us into another ME war.

Nothing has changed significantly accept for the coming of the US election cycle.....which he and his US agents(cons)are trying to game and use for their benefit.

The Israelis also have to play it right and not attack 1st or risk looking like they just expect the American public to back their hand, automatically and without objection.

Though we will come to their aid if attacked.....I doubt there`s much stomach by Americans for going into a preemptive war with Iran.

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to BenevolentM)

Post #: 108

RE: Some insight into the Arab riots. - 9/16/2012 6:03:46 AM

Politesub53

Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline

More about the film and the people behind it.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/politics/mayhem-and-death-with-just-one-click-8142465.html

(in reply to Owner59)

Post #: 109

RE: Some insight into the Arab riots. - 9/16/2012 6:27:36 AM

stellauk

Posts: 1360
Status: offline

Which US President was it that spoke of the 'axis of evil'?

There have been two illegal wars in Iraq and Afghanistan - these are the consequences.

How can anyone describe all Muslims as 'savage' and 'barbaric' and yet dismiss the hatred of equally 'savage' and 'barbaric' Christian fundamentalists and right wing extremists as 'freedom of speech'?

I have struggled through four minutes of this "film/trailer" (if that's what it can be described as) with zero artistic quality, zero acting ability, and it is offensive.

Now I'm not trying to justify the actions of these Islamic fundamentalists in any way. Especially as I have personally stood face to face with them on demonstrations in East London and received death threats. Anyone who expresses hatred towards someone enough to use terrorism or deadly force is a threat to society and needs locking up.

But a conflict has two sides.

How would you Americans feel if some foreign power invaded the States and started torturing people and bombing cities because of the Tea Party or something like Nakoula's film or the "free speech" of people like Pastor Jones?

You want some insight into these Arab riots?

Well for a start having the one man who kept peace and stability in the region executed - Saddam Hussein - probably didn't help matters. (Isn't it funny how both Israel and Iran are giving us more reasons for concern now he isn't around?)

Nakoula's film doesn't help matters nor does the fact that it's been produced and promoted in the States.

Burning the Koran in public doesn't really help matters either.

Expressing open hatred towards Muslims online - where everyone in the world can see it for themselves - doesn't help matters.

Not doing anything about Guantanamo Bay doesn't help matters.

Keeping a dying Shaker Aamer who has been twice declared innocent in solitary confinement in Guantanamo Bay doesn't help matters, and torturing him didn't help matters either.

I don't think electing Mitt Romney as US President is going to help matters much either.

The latest UN strike which has killed Afghan women probably isn't going to help matters much.

I mean, the Soviet Army tried for years but didn't get anywhere, neither have coalition forces under American military control.

When is it going to finally sink in that the time for Americans playing supercop in the world is well and truly over? It's over. History.

How many more people have to die?

When is it going to finally sink in that freedom of speech carries with it consequences, and some of those consequences can lead to the torture, suffering and deaths of others?

When your house is burning the last thing you throw on it is gasoline.

The Jews didn't let the world forget about the Holocaust in a hurry and I don't think the Muslims are going to be any more forgiving or forgetful over Iraq and Afghanistan.

These are the consequences. You now have your own Northern Ireland in the Middle East.

_____________________________

Usually when you have all the answers for something nobody is interested in listening.

(in reply to BamaD)

Post #: 110

RE: Some insight into the Arab riots. - 9/16/2012 7:05:26 AM

dcnovice

Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline

FR

Just started reading an interesting New Yorker piece on Salman Rushdie's life after the fatwa.

Writing (a bit oddly) in the third person, Rushdie makes an interesting point:

On air, when he was asked for a response to the threat, he said, “I wish I’d written a more critical book.” He was proud, then and always, that he had said this. It was the truth. He did not feel that his book was especially critical of Islam, but, as he said on American television that morning, a religion whose leaders behaved in this way could probably use a little criticism.

Read more: http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2012/09/17/120917fa_fact_rushdie#ixzz26dslyH8U

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to stellauk)

Post #: 111

RE: Some insight into the Arab riots. - 9/16/2012 7:34:29 AM

Musicmystery

Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline

~FR~

Reading many of the comments, I'm struck by what an ignorant country I live in.

(in reply to dcnovice)

Post #: 112

RE: Some insight into the Arab riots. - 9/16/2012 7:36:15 AM

Aylee

Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

I don't know Alyee.... I mean... what if the taliban sees this!!!! Well well well... I mean... you might as well be sticking the dagger in and killing more Americans. It is very dangerous of you to call muhammad a kiddy-diddler.

I mean we all have to be responsible... "Imagine" I said this is allah ---> and this is his prophet ---> ?

HOLY VISHNU!!!!

We just may have killed more Americans!!!

OH NOOOOOOO!

We spent all that money developing nukes. We spent all that money training up techs to service and maintain those nukes. We spent all that money building launch silos and systems to fly those nukes. We continue to spend all that money on maintaining and securing those nukes.

Isn't it about time we got some bang for all those bucks?

Let's face it, the international community of the very very sensitive does NOT understand the laws of warfare. Reprisals are legal. Reprisals are actually needed to ensure that the laws of warfare are followed. By the traditional laws of warfare and the common laws of warfare, every person in Benghazi is culpable for the deaths of our Embassy personnel. Especially the rape and murder of our ambassador. That itself is an act of war. We have the legal right to bomb the shit out of them.

Unfortunately the international community of the very very sensitive (of which this current administration is a part of) keep telling themselves and us that these poor misguided peaceful Muslims just couldn't help themselves. That rape and murder was understandable at some level because of a movie that about 10 people have seen in its entirety

I keep seeing the comparison of this video on youtube with being the same as yelling "fire" in a crowded theater. Apples to oranges. Yelling "fire" in a crowded theater can cause panic and trampling. I do not care what you put on youtube, it is not a mouse trap and no one is going to beat a path to your door or anyone else's door to watch it.

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

(in reply to FatDomDaddy)

Post #: 113

RE: Some insight into the Arab riots. - 9/16/2012 7:44:02 AM

SternSkipper

Posts: 7546
Joined: 3/7/2004
Status: offline

quote:

I have no idea.... I have never seen it.

Yeah ... Don't see too many facets of any issue ... Might shoot some holes in your political ventriloquist act.

quote:

But lots of movies are crap...are you saying crap movies should not be made or are you saying only movies that offend radical Islamist because they might blow up schools, fire bomb embassies and murder American citizens.

Nice attempt at putting words in my mouth. What said I said was it was in fact crap and that you couldn't add add ANYTHING that would rescue a piece of shit like the 10 minutes at end of the link I provided. And personally, I think the christian right can go on publishing the kind of horseshit they so love to broadcast till they're fucking broke. Might be what keeps em from entering the porn market and artistically ruining that genre which currently remains better made than that stupid fucking video. Reading into my response that I am politically ANYTHING viewpoint relative to the video is just thoughtlite<tm>. I was stating something ANYBODY with half a gram or artistic consciousness would get.

quote:

But I tell you what... at least the Islamist Wack Jobs and The American Government are finding common ground that this is the movies fault!!!

Yeah ... okay conjecture on buddy. Debate you understanding or lack of understanding with someone who was actually talking about the government. I wasn't.

quote:

How's that for cooperation!

Again why do you care? You were given an opportunity to view an extended cut of the and figure things out for yourself, but you chose to remain a guy just poking around looking for an empty debate. Oh wait though, if you ignore parts of the factual body on an issue you can just adopt some anti-administration position and go all Clint Eastwood'n'shit regarding the factual, and it sounds cool, right?

< Message edited by SternSkipper -- 9/16/2012 7:49:59 AM >

_____________________________

Looking forward to The Dead Singing The National Anthem At The World Series.

Tinfoilers Swallow

(in reply to FatDomDaddy)

Post #: 114

RE: Some insight into the Arab riots. - 9/16/2012 7:53:01 AM

Owner59

Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline

Thanks so much hun, for providing a great example of the conservative simpleton`s world POV.

Reckless, juvenile threats are the surest way of strengthening the radical`s position at home in Iran.

Imagine what our world would be like if our ass-hat cons were to have applied this shoot-1st policy, with a real threat....the soviet union?

That is if there was a world left to imagine......

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to Aylee)

Post #: 115

RE: Some insight into the Arab riots. - 9/16/2012 8:23:06 AM

Rule

Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee
Isn't it about time we got some bang for all those bucks?

We may have had the bangs already - but just do not know about it; which is characteristic of secret events.

(in reply to Aylee)

Post #: 116

RE: Some insight into the Arab riots. - 9/16/2012 8:34:37 AM

Musicmystery

Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline

But you were set up to think that's what's going on.

I'd explain more, but it's secret.

(in reply to Rule)

Post #: 117

RE: Some insight into the Arab riots. - 9/16/2012 9:07:20 AM

Aylee

Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Thanks so much hun, for providing a great example of the conservative simpleton`s world POV.

What? That I recognize that evil exists in the world? That I have no desire to understand the mindset of those that would perpetrate evil?

quote:

Reckless, juvenile threats are the surest way of strengthening the radical`s position at home in Iran.

They control the army already. How much stronger can they get? Besides, who is talking about threats. I am serious about the glassification of Iran.

When you go to exterminate vermin, you do not talk with them, you do make threats, you kill them.

You people that have been pussified by the American school system are going to wake up in shock one day when Iran really has been turned to glass.

And make no mistake, these ambassador raping, child sodomizing, women stoning barbarians ARE vermin.

quote:

Imagine what our world would be like if our ass-hat cons were to have applied this shoot-1st policy, with a real threat....the soviet union?

These people are not the Soviet Union in any way shape or form. They are bararians. And the Soviet Union lost.

Furthermore, if you look at the REAL infrastructure of the Soviet Union during the cold war and not what they reported as their infrastructure, they really had no chance. Vietnam bankrupted them. We won the cold war in Vietnam, even if the democratic congress did not allow us to win the war in Vietnam.

quote:

That is if there was a world left to imagine......

To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;
A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;
A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;
A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;
A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away;
A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;
A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

(in reply to Owner59)

Post #: 118

RE: Some insight into the Arab riots. - 9/16/2012 9:49:51 AM

Politesub53

Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

We spent all that money developing nukes. We spent all that money training up techs to service and maintain those nukes. We spent all that money building launch silos and systems to fly those nukes. We continue to spend all that money on maintaining and securing those nukes.

Isn't it about time we got some bang for all those bucks?

Let's face it, the international community of the very very sensitive does NOT understand the laws of warfare. Reprisals are legal. Reprisals are actually needed to ensure that the laws of warfare are followed. By the traditional laws of warfare and the common laws of warfare, every person in Benghazi is culpable for the deaths of our Embassy personnel. Especially the rape and murder of our ambassador. That itself is an act of war. We have the legal right to bomb the shit out of them.

Unfortunately the international community of the very very sensitive (of which this current administration is a part of) keep telling themselves and us that these poor misguided peaceful Muslims just couldn't help themselves. That rape and murder was understandable at some level because of a movie that about 10 people have seen in its entirety

I keep seeing the comparison of this video on youtube with being the same as yelling "fire" in a crowded theater. Apples to oranges. Yelling "fire" in a crowded theater can cause panic and trampling. I do not care what you put on youtube, it is not a mouse trap and no one is going to beat a path to your door or anyone else's door to watch it.

Your ambassador was raped........Really ?

Some terrorists kiled your people so you want to nuke the whole Libyan nation.......how very civillised.

Traditional rules of warfare make everyone in Benghazi culpable ?

Youve lost the plot on this one. Rather the community of the sensetive than the community of the stupid.

(in reply to Aylee)

Post #: 119

RE: Some insight into the Arab riots. - 9/16/2012 10:02:05 AM

PeonForHer

Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline

I've got to agree with Polite, Aylee. There are reports that Libyans in Benghazi tried to help the consulate staff. The doc who spent an hour and a half trying to revive the ambassador was a Libyan. The military invented weapons that could facilitate (in theory, at least) surgical strikes. I think it'd be a good idea if you were to make your verbal strikes more 'surgical', too.

_____________________________

http://www.domme-chronicles.com

(in reply to Aylee)

Post #: 120

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