He's Clearly Vanilla (Full Version)

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ThrowAway88 -> He's Clearly Vanilla (9/15/2012 8:57:13 AM)

First of all... Hi! Thank you to any and all who read and respond. I appreciate your time immensely.

Second. I'm not new here. I have an account I've used here for many years. It's going on a decade since I first accepted and integrated my submission. I love who I am and this is not new to me. Neither is collar me. I often come here for advice, have met many wonderful people here, and generally love this "community".

That said, this is a throwaway account and I apologize. But I need guidance and this is where I come for that. Always have. I need the anonymity now.

So. My dilemma. I am dating, and very much in love with, a wonderful wonderful man. I met him after a fantastically submissive year of dating men who were dominant but none of which lit me up in that particular beautiful way. So I fell into the trap of questioning if I should worry about finding someone I love or finding someone who is a good dominant counterpart who I also love. It's a common trap for me. Date like "normal" and worry a out kink later or date "kinky" and worry about love later. Yes. I recognize that they shouldn't be so separate, so mutually exclusive, but I don't kid myself into believing that it's easy to fulfill both.

I'm monogamous. I'm happy in a triple but that's as poly as I get. Just a fact. We are who we are. So I find myself in a happy monogamous relationship but missing something that is very important to me. It's entirely possible that I underestimated exactly How Important expressing my submission is to me. I think that's where made the biggest mistake.

We have great communication. So when your instinct is to tell me to talk to him, which it should be, know that I have. He knows who I am. Knows I'm submissive, knows my past, my kinks, my toys, my wants. And is ok with that. But clearly I can't change him or mold him or any of that. And I wouldn't want to. I just... Need council. Thoughts. Advice. My friends are no help. He listens but it's becoming clear it's not something he'll ever fully truly understand. And that's not his fault. When I started this relationship, I talked to my best friend about this and her response was that it was going to be fine. What man doesn't want a kinky girlfriend? Her and I both underestimated my needs. Because it is growing and it's not good for me. He takes the edge off with simple things but it's never enough. And I don't like what it's doing to me.

So hit me with your wisdom. Your harsh words. Your sympathetic ones. Whatever. I just need a virtual hug from some people who understand me. I know I'll figure it out eventually. To one end or another.

Thanks again.



Whenready -> RE: He's Clearly Vanilla (9/15/2012 9:21:46 AM)

Tough choice. Sends the virtual hug.

Now the harder questions. Can you live without him? Can you live without submission? If you can answer those, you'll know what you have to do.

Sends another hug.



ThrowAway88 -> RE: He's Clearly Vanilla (9/15/2012 9:31:34 AM)

Thank you. Truly.

*sigh* I think if I had those answers I wouldn't be here. I'd be content with, and follow, that knowledge. If only I could see things so clearly.

Thanks again

quote:

ORIGINAL: Whenready

Tough choice. Sends the virtual hug.

Now the harder questions. Can you live without him? Can you live without submission? If you can answer those, you'll know what you have to do.

Sends another hug.




GreedyTop -> RE: He's Clearly Vanilla (9/15/2012 9:32:02 AM)

quote:

But clearly I can't change him or mold him or any of that. And I wouldn't want to.

Read this bit, that you wrote, again.


Can you live with this?



ThrowAway88 -> RE: He's Clearly Vanilla (9/15/2012 9:45:11 AM)

I love who he is. He is exactly what I wanted... Except this. Can I live with being in love with a wonderful, good good man? Yes. Who am I to have such expectations? No one is perfect. If this is his big flaw then he is the closest to perfect I've ever had.

But can I deny myself my submission? Can I give up and suppress something that I see as integral to my expression of love and a defining point of who I am?

I recognize the questions. I just don't have the answers. I don't want to force it to the breaking point either. But I definitely don't want to lose him.

Thank you for questioning me. It does help.



Tantriqu -> RE: He's Clearly Vanilla (9/15/2012 9:48:37 AM)

Unless you've used the words or actions [or pictures!] to describe precisely what you need with him and he said, 'EW! Major turn-off AND hard limit', it's unclear. Being repulsed by dom-ish men, I've never been in the position of being in a relationship with one who would try that behind closed doors, so I can't comment on the inverse. But have you asked specifically if he is sub, or is actively turned off by being asked to dom?
I'm constantly amused that the vanilla-est looking and sounding guys love to try the kinkiest things [cops and strapons, who knew?]. So I always say you never know until you ask AND try. We all have deal-breakers, and I was surprised that I could put up with not kissing with a bad kisser, but I could never put up with a guy who wasn't a 28/28 OSODD; fortunately, I've never had to make that choice.
But yes, if you'd specified you need 'x' and he says 'No, never', that's your only choice; your kink or this guy.
Bonne chance!



Whenready -> RE: He's Clearly Vanilla (9/15/2012 9:53:11 AM)

A follow on.

None of us are perfect. If he's the closest to perfect... go for it...but... see if you can answer either question too.

Good luck!



LadyHibiscus -> RE: He's Clearly Vanilla (9/15/2012 10:01:04 AM)

Here's where I need some clarification... what do you mean by "submission"? Do you mean, serving and following? Because anyone can do that. Do you mean kinky sex? Because anyone can do that to, to a degree.

I am a domly dom bossy broad. I am a serious perv. I am a fingerpaint-in-blood sadist. If I had to, would give up any one of those for "perfect"? IN A HEARTBEAT.

Would I take my little breaks into perversity, in whatever manner we agreed on? Sure. But yes, the kink would absolutely go by the wayside if I had everything else.



ThrowAway88 -> RE: He's Clearly Vanilla (9/15/2012 10:04:12 AM)

This made me giggle. Only because hard limit is probably not even in his vocabulary.

How do you fully explain this? I feel like I've done the best I can but it's a dynamic. It just Is. To be dominant is simply not a part of his personality . To ask him to be what I want is to ask him to change who he is.

Let me also clarify that the sex is amazing. I'm completely satisfied in that aspect. What I'm struggling with is much more emotional.

He'll tie me up and he can spank me. Those things are good. But to really go beyond that his heart would have to be in to dominating me for his own satisfaction. And he is not that man. He views me as his equal. His partner. And a free agent. It's quite beautiful and would be the envy of any vanilla girl I know.

Maybe I'm robbing him of being with someone for whom that is enough. That, right there, really bothers me. Because I love him and I want him to be happy and to be with someone for whom he is well suited. I told him this once. He didn't like it. Loves me and wants us to work. I do too. I just wonder if we're fighting the tide.

In putting down my thoughts I also wonder if I gave unrealistic expectations. Both when in vanilla relationships and D/s ones. That's possible too. And I should work on it. I'm not entirely sure that I want is realistic.

Thank you for your response.



LadyHibiscus -> RE: He's Clearly Vanilla (9/15/2012 10:07:40 AM)

May I ask how you wound up with this person, and why you even chose someone vanilla? If you've been here any length of time, you know that there have been many conversations about how people are who they are. Did you expect some kind of miraculous transformation in either one of you?



ThrowAway88 -> RE: He's Clearly Vanilla (9/15/2012 10:19:50 AM)

Thank you for this. It's a good question.

I mean both. I'm not... How do I phrase this... Excessive in what I want. I'm happiest in a loving D/s relationship. It feels pretty standard to me but I've run the gamut and explored what exactly my brand of submission is and it's fairly tame. I'm a 1950's, vanilla looking on the outside, kinky in the bedroom, worshiping, eager to please, content with tasks and rituals, loves to be praised, trained and molded kind of girl.

Does that make sense? Maybe that's excessive. It feels pretty basic. But he is not the opposite of that. He is kind and gentle, thoughtful, wants me to be happy, independent, honest and intelligent... But he's not dominant. He's not submissive by any means just... Independent.

The short of that though is no, not everyone can do that.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

Here's where I need some clarification... what do you mean by "submission"? Do you mean, serving and following? Because anyone can do that. Do you mean kinky sex? Because anyone can do that to, to a degree.

I am a domly dom bossy broad. I am a serious perv. I am a fingerpaint-in-blood sadist. If I had to, would give up any one of those for "perfect"? IN A HEARTBEAT.

Would I take my little breaks into perversity, in whatever manner we agreed on? Sure. But yes, the kink would absolutely go by the wayside if I had everything else.




ThrowAway88 -> RE: He's Clearly Vanilla (9/15/2012 10:35:14 AM)

This is another good question. Thank you.

I got tired of dating and putting kink first. I thought, naively, that if I sought someone who lit me up and who I loved that it would be enough. Not the first time I've done this, sadly. And I break hearts because of it. One of my closest friends calls me heart breaker. But I have never gone into any situation kinky or vanilla without expressing and being very clear about who I am and what I want. It may be harsh but I hold people responsible for their own emotions. I value honesty and communication highly and make sure people know what they're getting with me.

If he and I don't work it won't be because I was deceptive or cruel. My intentions are good and I love him.

And yes I know this can be a fairly common discussion. For good reason. Dating, and looking for your lifelong partner as I am, is hard. There's no right way to do it and we all take risks in doing so. Dating with kink first is no different but it narrows the pool to pick from and, honestly, for someone like me who's rather tame, it gets overwhelming. So I went traditional. I have traditional wants, for the most part. It wasn't completely irrational. And I don't expect to change him. I simply thought we'd be a good match. And we are. Excepting this.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

May I ask how you wound up with this person, and why you even chose someone vanilla? If you've been here any length of time, you know that there have been many conversations about how people are who they are. Did you expect some kind of miraculous transformation in either one of you?




ARIES83 -> RE: He's Clearly Vanilla (9/15/2012 10:48:03 AM)

The best type of relationship IMO is one
where you get to be yourself, no hideing,
no wishing it was different...

-Aries



sexyred1 -> RE: He's Clearly Vanilla (9/15/2012 10:48:45 AM)

You talk about how honest you are and not cruel and you seem to relish being called a "heartbreaker".

And yet here you are asking people to give you advice on how to deal with your almost perfect man.

Wow.

If you know something is essential for your life, you make sure you know if someone can give this to you upfront. If you want a child or marriage and someone says I never want kids or I am never getting married, you may choose to date them and hope they will change their mind, but most of time you cannot change someone.

If you are submissive or Dominant and this is so critical for you to have someone who matches this, why stay with a man who clearly is not going to fulfill this in you? You are doing him a terrible disservice when he could be with someone who loves him completely for who he is and not for the one thing he is not.

I have been with men who clearly could not give me what I needed in that area, but the difference is they were not perfect for me in the other areas.

If I EVER could describe someone as you have described your man, I would run into his arms and never leave and I might miss some of what I like to do, but I have done it all, except find someone perfect for me. This is more important than kink.

Everyone has to prioritize their life needs and so do you. But however much of a "heartbreaker" you are, remember, some things do not last, some things only come around once in a lifetime and you may find yourself without what you really needed vs what you think you want.

Remember, you cannot have everything in life, so choose wisely.



LadyHibiscus -> RE: He's Clearly Vanilla (9/15/2012 10:49:36 AM)

D/s is never "tame".

So... you go after men that you know won't satisfy you, in the hope of what, exactly? YOU are not going to change. HE is not going to change. No matter what, HE ISN'T ENOUGH and he never will be. If you thought he was, you wouldn't be here asking the likes of us, would you?




LaTigresse -> RE: He's Clearly Vanilla (9/15/2012 11:03:23 AM)

I echo what SexyRed and LadyHib have already written.

Shame on you OP! You are a reasonably intelligent, mature, woman. Saying that you were honest about your desires yet you pursued a relationship with this man is a cop out......and a bad one.

I point out the reverse.....YOU KNEW what kind of man HE WAS and yet you allowed him to care more deeply for you. You are using the idea that he is responsible for his emotions as an easy out for you not being honest with him. If you were being as honest as you have convinced yourself you were, and are trying to no avail to convince us......you would not have entered into this relationship in the first place.

He deserves better than you.



ThrowAway88 -> RE: He's Clearly Vanilla (9/15/2012 11:05:30 AM)

Having failed relationships is definitely not something I relish nor am proud of. I say it to highlight my obvious struggle. We all have them. I'm human and I do my best. I screw it up a lot too.

When I decided to date again I went looking for the things that matter in a partner. And I have them. He is moral and trustworthy and fun and sexy and a good good man. I'm looking for advice on life. Pretty typical standard stuff. It's about balance. I'm just being honest about the rest.

I don't know that my submission is so critical as you described. You say that if you found someone who was a wonderful match for you, you'd happily give up all of your kink. All I'm saying is that it isn't always so easy. Relationships are hard. But I do want to do right by him. And I've said so numerous times.

I'm sorry you take what I've said and think I'm being thoughtless. I honestly have his needs at heart too. I think you can latch on to one part of what I say but the rest matters also.

I guess I thought, like you've said, that it would be enough. If you read what I'm saying I'm trying to make it clear that I want what's best for everyone and am struggling with this. It's not as easy as running into his arms and never thinking about this again. I wish I could. I'm not sure I can.

I do appreciate your viewpoint. Thank you for saying this.


quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1

You talk about how honest you are and not cruel and you seem to relish being called a "heartbreaker".

And yet here you are asking people to give you advice on how to deal with your almost perfect man.

Wow.

If you know something is essential for your life, you make sure you know if someone can give this to you upfront. If you want a child or marriage and someone says I never want kids or I am never getting married, you may choose to date them and hope they will change their mind, but most of time you cannot change someone.

If you are submissive or Dominant and this is so critical for you to have someone who matches this, why stay with a man who clearly is not going to fulfill this in you? You are doing him a terrible disservice when he could be with someone who loves him completely for who he is and not for the one thing he is not.

I have been with men who clearly could not give me what I needed in that area, but the difference is they were not perfect for me in the other areas.

If I EVER could describe someone as you have described your man, I would run into his arms and never leave.

Everyone has to prioritize their life needs and so do you. But however much of a "heartbreaker" you are, remember, some things do not last, some things only come around once in a lifetime and you may find yourself without what you really needed vs what you think you want.

Remember, you cannot have everything in life, so choose wisely.




LadyHibiscus -> RE: He's Clearly Vanilla (9/15/2012 11:05:39 AM)

Thank you, LaT. You said that more kindly than I would have. Which is why I engaged the SHUTUPHIB filter.



delilahdelight -> RE: He's Clearly Vanilla (9/15/2012 11:09:07 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ThrowAway88
How do you fully explain this? I feel like I've done the best I can but it's a dynamic. It just Is. To be dominant is simply not a part of his personality . To ask him to be what I want is to ask him to change who he is.

Let me also clarify that the sex is amazing. I'm completely satisfied in that aspect. What I'm struggling with is much more emotional.

He'll tie me up and he can spank me. Those things are good. But to really go beyond that his heart would have to be in to dominating me for his own satisfaction. And he is not that man. He views me as his equal. His partner.


Every word of this you said...I truly empathize. I have been right where you are, thinking the same thoughts and feeling the same emotional turmoil. It is not an easy place to be. To crave that dynamic is a seriously powerful force. So is the need to be with a good and wonderful man. And when the two don't match up, it causes much angst. In the end, I made a definitive choice, and I haven't looked back nor regretted it. There are times when I spend a few self-indulgent moments longing for what's not there, but the positives in the life I did choose far surpass anything else.

In your case, you'll have to decide. For your sake and his, just make sure it's a decision that is the best thing for you both.

All the best.




lizi -> RE: He's Clearly Vanilla (9/15/2012 11:15:18 AM)

Ok, maybe I'm dense, but where exactly is he not fulfilling you? You go to great lengths to describe him as perfect and wonderful even down to your love life- then where are you wanting? It almost sounds like if you have what you want except for the label and the BDSM trappings, then why sweat that stuff?

I have to say my initial feeling is that if things are so perfect what's your beef? You seem old enough to know that close to perfect things come along very rarely. Could I forgo the BDSM and such for a wonderful man? Hell yes. I have. I was married to one, happily. We raised kids together for 17 years. It was a good life. I never regret it or look at is as lacking because he didn't suit me as exactly as he could have. I did what you do in a relationship and adjusted my outlook on things to accommodate what we had instead of holding out for perfection and I was very happy.



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