quote:

OMG!!! My parents are fucking liars!!! Both said they graduated from HS! And, my Dad even said he graduated from college. How could he have done that since the DoEd wasn't even around yet?!?!?!?

quote:

I'm assuming that by "program" you are referring to the DoEd. And, I agree NCLB needs to be repealed. Yesterday wouldn't be soon enough. But, has the DoEd even come close to fulfilling it's purpose? Has our academic achievement gotten better since it's creation?

quote:

The Fed's aren't leveling any playing field. Gimme a break. And, that's an acknowledgement that corruption is acceptable.

quote:

And it takes a college education to be able to change a fuel injector? Seriously? That's laughable.

quote:

This has nothing to do with the DoEd. Jr. can get a job and put himself through college (my ex did just that). It might take him longer, but he'll be better off having had to go through that (even the President and First Lady acknowledge they would not have achieved as much as they have had they not had to fight through what they went through for their educations). Instead of putting the responsibility for a kid's advancement onto the parents, you are putting it onto the community, state and nation. You know that whoever is holding the purse strings is the one that makes the decisions, right? Your desire for the Federal government to pay for a kid's education isn't anything less than advocating for a kid to be beholden to government for that education. And, since it's not exactly the Fed's money (it's the taxpayers' money), does a taxpayer get a say?

quote:

Why do those areas not have any choice in schools? What is stopping them? I find that school choice is more heavily opposed by Unions and Democrats (probably mostly because the Democrats are heavily supported by Unions, not necessarily because Democrats are opposed to school choices). What is preventing a community from having a choice in school?

quote:

Not at all. It truly is the only way to provide a level playing field for each kid.

quote:

There are not many ways. A livable wage? I picked up a foreclosure recently. The people before me lost the house because they couldn't refinance their 3 mortgages. I'm sure it had nothing to do with their drinking, the drug use and sales,or their choosing to live off welfare. They stopped having trash pickup because they couldn't afford it. Two satellite dishes, cell phones, boats, vehicles, etc. they could afford. Trash pick up, they couldn't. After the family had been evicted, the County Health Dept. was called because of rat infestation. By the end of the following week, the garbage had been picked up... 4 huge rolloffs filled with garbage and a steady back and forth of garbage trucks took care of everything.

quote:

Livable wages, "viable" educational systems (why don't we already have a viable one?), and free college education will cost everyone more, and won't benefit everyone more. In my area, costs keep going up and up, yet results aren't keeping up. Throwing more and more money at the problem isn't going to fix anything. Money isn't the problem.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
Nope, it takes a college education to make the money that comes with being a certified mechanic.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
Yes, a two year degree, which is still college. College doesnt always mean a four year ivory education.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

OMG!!! My parents are fucking liars!!! Both said they graduated from HS! And, my Dad even said he graduated from college. How could he have done that since the DoEd wasn't even around yet?!?!?!?

rofl
The NCAA does the collegiate graduation rates.... didnt you know that?

quote:

quote:

I'm assuming that by "program" you are referring to the DoEd. And, I agree NCLB needs to be repealed. Yesterday wouldn't be soon enough. But, has the DoEd even come close to fulfilling it's purpose? Has our academic achievement gotten better since it's creation?

Nope, and it wont as long as our politicians keep raiding it.

quote:

quote:

The Fed's aren't leveling any playing field. Gimme a break. And, that's an acknowledgement that corruption is acceptable.

And you think corruption doesnt happen at a local level? even after your tirade about your son's school?

quote:

quote:

And it takes a college education to be able to change a fuel injector? Seriously? That's laughable.

Nope, it takes a college education to make the money that comes with being a certified mechanic.

quote:

quote:

This has nothing to do with the DoEd. Jr. can get a job and put himself through college (my ex did just that). It might take him longer, but he'll be better off having had to go through that (even the President and First Lady acknowledge they would not have achieved as much as they have had they not had to fight through what they went through for their educations). Instead of putting the responsibility for a kid's advancement onto the parents, you are putting it onto the community, state and nation. You know that whoever is holding the purse strings is the one that makes the decisions, right? Your desire for the Federal government to pay for a kid's education isn't anything less than advocating for a kid to be beholden to government for that education. And, since it's not exactly the Fed's money (it's the taxpayers' money), does a taxpayer get a say?

I think the responsibility for education falls upon everyone. Instead of saying.. I got fucked to get mine, I will fuck you before you get yours.... we need to educate our youth for a better tomorrow.

quote:

quote:

Why do those areas not have any choice in schools? What is stopping them? I find that school choice is more heavily opposed by Unions and Democrats (probably mostly because the Democrats are heavily supported by Unions, not necessarily because Democrats are opposed to school choices). What is preventing a community from having a choice in school?

Most of the communities I have lived in werent unionized and had little to no choices in alternative schooling. There goes your theory.

quote:

quote:

Not at all. It truly is the only way to provide a level playing field for each kid.

No its not, its just your knee jerk reaction to something you dont wish to acknowledge.

quote:

There are not many ways. A livable wage? I picked up a foreclosure recently. The people before me lost the house because they couldn't refinance their 3 mortgages. I'm sure it had nothing to do with their drinking, the drug use and sales,or their choosing to live off welfare. They stopped having trash pickup because they couldn't afford it. Two satellite dishes, cell phones, boats, vehicles, etc. they could afford. Trash pick up, they couldn't. After the family had been evicted, the County Health Dept. was called because of rat infestation. By the end of the following week, the garbage had been picked up... 4 huge rolloffs filled with garbage and a steady back and forth of garbage trucks took care of everything.

Hell, I have seen that in rich neighborhoods with adults who had fantastic jobs and couldnt keep the drugs out of their noses, or end the martini lunches, or the man lost all his wealth in derivatives. One example.. hell.. even 100.. doesnt make your case.

quote:

quote:

Livable wages, "viable" educational systems (why don't we already have a viable one?), and free college education will cost everyone more, and won't benefit everyone more. In my area, costs keep going up and up, yet results aren't keeping up. Throwing more and more money at the problem isn't going to fix anything. Money isn't the problem.

And yet countries with better educational scores than ours manage to do just that.
Makes ya wonder huh

• A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  
• Personal Responsibility
  
• Help for the truly needy
  
• Limited Government
  
• Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)
  

quote:

No way. You said that was the DoEd. Which is it now?

quote:

Um, what's that now? You're saying that a kid has to go to college to make the money that comes with being a certified mechanic? Is that your way of saying that you can't be a certified mechanic without going through college?

http://www.ase.com/Tests.aspx

http://www.bls.gov/ooh/installation-maintenance-and-repair/home.htm

quote:

How to Become an Aircraft and Avionics Equipment Mechanic or Technician

Education and Training
Most mechanics and technicians learn their trade at an FAA-Approved Aviation Maintenance Technician School. Coursework normally lasts 18 to 24 months and provides training with the tools and equipment used on the job.

About one-third of these schools award 2- or 4-year degrees in avionics, aviation technology, or aviation maintenance management. Increasingly, employers are looking more favorably on those with a bachelor’s degree.

Aircraft trade schools are placing more emphasis on technologies being used in new airplanes, such as turbine engines, composite materials, and aviation electronics. These technical advances require mechanics to have stronger backgrounds in composite materials and electronics.

Courses in mathematics, physics, chemical engineering, electronics, computer science, and mechanical drawing are helpful because they teach the principles involved in operating an airplane. Mechanics often need this knowledge to figure out what is wrong and how to fix it.

Courses that develop writing, communication, and management skills are important for mechanics who want to move into senior positions.

quote:

Substitutions
You may receive credit for up to one year of your two-year work experience requirement by substituting relevant formal training in one, or a combination, of the following:
High School Training: Two full years of training, either in automobile/truck/school bus repair or in collision repair, refinishing, or damage estimating, may be substituted for one year of work experience.
Post-High School Training: Two full years of post-high school training in a public or private trade school, technical institute, community or four-year college, or in an apprenticeship program may be counted as one year of work experience.
Short Courses: For shorter periods of post-high school training, you may substitute two months of training for one month of work experience.
You may receive full credit for the two-year work experience requirement with the following:
Completion of Apprenticeship: Satisfactory completion of either a three-or four-year bona fide apprenticeship program.
Completion of an OEM-Sponsored Co-op Program: Satisfactory completion of a post-secondary, two-year factory-sponsored training program that results in a two-year associate's degree or equivalent, such as GM ASEP, Ford ASSET, Toyota T-TEN, Honda PACT, or Chrysler CAP; plus adequate hands-on experience obtained during the co-op program.

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel
WTF take a look in the mirror man, you're actually tying to justify being knowingly dishonest with finger pointing.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

Substitutions
You may receive credit for up to one year of your two-year work experience requirement by substituting relevant formal training in one, or a combination, of the following:
High School Training: Two full years of training, either in automobile/truck/school bus repair or in collision repair, refinishing, or damage estimating, may be substituted for one year of work experience.
Post-High School Training: Two full years of post-high school training in a public or private trade school, technical institute, community or four-year college, or in an apprenticeship program may be counted as one year of work experience.
Short Courses: For shorter periods of post-high school training, you may substitute two months of training for one month of work experience.
You may receive full credit for the two-year work experience requirement with the following:
Completion of Apprenticeship: Satisfactory completion of either a three-or four-year bona fide apprenticeship program.
Completion of an OEM-Sponsored Co-op Program: Satisfactory completion of a post-secondary, two-year factory-sponsored training program that results in a two-year associate's degree or equivalent, such as GM ASEP, Ford ASSET, Toyota T-TEN, Honda PACT, or Chrysler CAP; plus adequate hands-on experience obtained during the co-op program.

http://www.ase.com/Tests/ASE-Certification-Tests/Work-Experience.aspx
Nope.... no education needed.. just walk in off the street, take the test, get a job... bam... all set, right?
Hardly.

• A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  
• Personal Responsibility
  
• Help for the truly needy
  
• Limited Government
  
• Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)
  

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
Hey, I used your links, which argued with you.
Dont blame me.

• A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  
• Personal Responsibility
  
• Help for the truly needy
  
• Limited Government
  
• Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)
  

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
http://www.miamidade.gov/business/library/permits/repair-mechanic-permit.pdf

Even this one requires certification. And those programs arent free.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
Nope, it takes a college education to make the money that comes with being a certified mechanic.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
I should have said post high school education. These programs still require money, some still dont pay, and most require 18 - 24 months of further education... most with a completion degree or certificate. Dont know about you, but that sounds like a trade school or technical college to me.
If you want top split hairs over the terminology, then by all means do so. Its semantics.

• A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  
• Personal Responsibility
  
• Help for the truly needy
  
• Limited Government
  
• Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)
  

quote:

So, you're telling me, then, that anyone who wants an education should automatically be enrolled in the educational path of their choosing, on Uncle Sam's dime (that is, taxpayer's dimes)? Are there going to be any restrictions? Stipulations? Any sort of payback?

quote:

Free education refers to education that is funded through taxation, or charitable organizations rather than tuition fees. Although primary school and other comprehensive or compulsory education is free in many countries, for example, all education is mostly free (often not including books (from primary) and a number of administrative and sundry fees in university) including post-graduate studies in the Nordic countries.[1] In Norway and Finland, no fees apply for foreign students enrolling at a university, although they may not be eligible for a monthly study allowance and loan. Bachelor degree programmes in Norway are solely taught in Norwegian.[2] Master degree programmes in Norway are offered in either Norwegian or English depending on the programme and/or university.[3] Sweden, until recently, provided free education to foreign students but changes have been introduced to charge fees to foreign students from outside of the European community[4]. Denmark also has universal free education, and provides a monthly stipend, the "Statens Uddannelsesstøtte" or "SU", to students over 18 years of age.[5] Bachelor degree programmes in Denmark are solely taught in Danish.[6] Master degree programmes in Denmark are offered in either Danish or English depending on the programme and/or university. Greece and Argentina provide free education at all levels, including college and university.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
http://www.thecareercenter.net/tech_automechanics.php
This one isnt free.. though not expensive.

quote:

So, you're telling me, then, that anyone who wants an education should automatically be enrolled in the educational path of their choosing, on Uncle Sam's dime (that is, taxpayer's dimes)? Are there going to be any restrictions? Stipulations? Any sort of payback?

Never heard of aptitude tests?
Its certainly better than allowing only the factor of money being the deciding factor.

quote:

quote:

Free education refers to education that is funded through taxation, or charitable organizations rather than tuition fees. Although primary school and other comprehensive or compulsory education is free in many countries, for example, all education is mostly free (often not including books (from primary) and a number of administrative and sundry fees in university) including post-graduate studies in the Nordic countries.[1] In Norway and Finland, no fees apply for foreign students enrolling at a university, although they may not be eligible for a monthly study allowance and loan. Bachelor degree programmes in Norway are solely taught in Norwegian.[2] Master degree programmes in Norway are offered in either Norwegian or English depending on the programme and/or university.[3] Sweden, until recently, provided free education to foreign students but changes have been introduced to charge fees to foreign students from outside of the European community[4]. Denmark also has universal free education, and provides a monthly stipend, the "Statens Uddannelsesstøtte" or "SU", to students over 18 years of age.[5] Bachelor degree programmes in Denmark are solely taught in Danish.[6] Master degree programmes in Denmark are offered in either Danish or English depending on the programme and/or university. Greece and Argentina provide free education at all levels, including college and university.

Dunno... why not ask them?
Considering Finland is 2nd in the world for education, that might be a good place for you to start.

• A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  
• Personal Responsibility
  
• Help for the truly needy
  
• Limited Government
  
• Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)
  

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
If you want top split hairs over the terminology, then by all means do so. Its semantics.

quote:

Finland, while nothing spectacular, is tracking right along with the OECD average.

quote:

So, an aptitude test will be the arbiter of where you can go in the Market. Gotcha. Shall we do that before HS, so that we can spend those 4 years gearing them up for their slot? Or, before? Or, after? Or, whenever they decide to change their goals? What is to prevent someone from continuing to get a similar, but different major after the first one? Would you have to take another aptitude test?

What if the aptitude tests aren't blind (as in, they are weighted against certain population segments)?

quote:

“And so tonight, I ask every American to commit to at least one year or more of higher education or career training. This can be community college or a four-year school; vocational training or an apprenticeship. But whatever the training may be, every American will need to get more than a high school diploma. And dropping out of high school is no longer an option. It’s not just quitting on yourself, it’s quitting on your country — and this country needs and values the talents of every American.”

quote:

“There's technical schools. There's additional training, vocational training. There's skills and apprenticeships. There's all sorts of things that people can do to upgrade their skills, to be very productive and great workers here in America who provide for their families and build their community.”

That actually wasn’t Obama; it was Santorum, offering his alternative to college on “This Week with George Stephanopoulos.” We have a hard time discerning much of a difference, and Santorum’s campaign did not respond to a request for an explanation. (Update: Our colleagues at PolitiFact looked at 18 speeches in which Obama discussed education and still found little evidence to back up Santorum’s claim.)

quote:

“President Obama said he wants everybody in America to go to college. What a snob! There are good, decent men and women who go out and work hard every day and put their skills to test that aren’t taught by some liberal college professor trying to indoctrinate them. Oh I understand why he wants you to go to college. He wants to remake you in his image. I want to create jobs so people can remake their children into their image, not his.”