RE: Rick Santorum finally speaks truth (Full Version)

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slvemike4u -> RE: Rick Santorum finally speaks truth (9/18/2012 9:49:01 PM)

You sure do put a lot of stock in that "non verbal communication" thing.
Her's the problem though,when someone is SPEAKING to a group of people it really is the VERBAL part that defines the content.
This is sort of what a SPEAKING engagement entails.....VERBAL communications,
So it behooves the SPEAKER to SPEAK intelligently and be clear in his VERBAL communication.
This is how smart and yes elite people communicate(for the most part)
Of course mimes do it differently,but that a whole nother thing and a conversation best left for another time [:)]




tweakabelle -> RE: Rick Santorum finally speaks truth (9/18/2012 10:30:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

It is something I would expect to see in a Month Python sketch.



Pssst Tweakable........ Is this like a Mony Python sketch, only longer ? [8D]

LOL. Actually I am kind of torn between the Monty Python reference and Aldous Huxley's nightmarish notion of "double speak".

The idea that Romney, born with a silver spoon in his mouth, a corporate financier by trade and strident advocate for wealth re-distribution (taking from those who have a little to benefit those who have too much already and corporate/special interest welfare at a national level), the notion of such a person condemning ordinary people as the "elite' qualifies as "double speak" perfectly.

Sadly, as we are talking about real events, not fiction, events and ideas that may have profound effects on millions of lives in the USA and elsewhere, deciding which reference is more accurate and more terrifying is difficult.




tweakabelle -> RE: Rick Santorum finally speaks truth (9/18/2012 10:42:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
Mittens latest remarks about 47% of Americans being "victims", and "dependent" on "entitlements" from Govt, and not paying income taxes are strong evidence that Mittens shares St. Santorum's views about ordinary people, or to put that a bit more accurately, Mittens and St. Santorum are united in their contempt for ordinary people.
How hilarious to see a multi-millionaire Wall St financial shark trying to criticise ordinary people for being the "elite". It is something I would expect to see in a Month Python sketch. It really does show how out of touch Mittens is with the struggles and issues that face ordinary people.


The sad fact of the matter, tweakabelle, is that more and more people are becoming dependent on government. We have generations that know nothing but the welfare life, and have been raised to accept welfare as the way to go. Now, there are still many people who are on welfare that won't be there forever, and there is no real reason (or attempt) to defund the welfare system. It's all about getting the necessary help to the ones who need it, and getting the lazy leeches off their asses and off the system (note: those who truly need the help are not the lazy leeches).
[...]
Santorum's message is not the same as what Romney stated. Not by any stretch.


I do hope gracadieu won't mind my borrowing her post to respond to you DS. It summarises the issues perfectly:

"I think the half-ish of his own party that he described as dependent victims who don't take responsibility for their life might care. Not to mention the independents he's trying to win over.

Since when are retirees, students, soldiers, the laid-off, and hard-working working class families the"welfare class", anyway? I mean, those are the people he was talking about."
(my emphasis)

Irrespective of the merit or otherwise of your claims re: 'welfare dependency', the ordinary people targeted by Romney and St Santorum are just that - ordinary hard working people, many of whom might choose to vote Republican. Romney and St Santorum are united in their contempt for ordinary people - people like you, me and almost all the people posting here.




DesideriScuri -> RE: Rick Santorum finally speaks truth (9/19/2012 5:05:15 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
Mittens latest remarks about 47% of Americans being "victims", and "dependent" on "entitlements" from Govt, and not paying income taxes are strong evidence that Mittens shares St. Santorum's views about ordinary people, or to put that a bit more accurately, Mittens and St. Santorum are united in their contempt for ordinary people.
How hilarious to see a multi-millionaire Wall St financial shark trying to criticise ordinary people for being the "elite". It is something I would expect to see in a Month Python sketch. It really does show how out of touch Mittens is with the struggles and issues that face ordinary people.

The sad fact of the matter, tweakabelle, is that more and more people are becoming dependent on government. We have generations that know nothing but the welfare life, and have been raised to accept welfare as the way to go. Now, there are still many people who are on welfare that won't be there forever, and there is no real reason (or attempt) to defund the welfare system. It's all about getting the necessary help to the ones who need it, and getting the lazy leeches off their asses and off the system (note: those who truly need the help are not the lazy leeches).
[...]
Santorum's message is not the same as what Romney stated. Not by any stretch.

I do hope gracadieu won't mind my borrowing her post to respond to you DS. It summarises the issues perfectly:
"I think the half-ish of his own party that he described as dependent victims who don't take responsibility for their life might care. Not to mention the independents he's trying to win over.
Since when are retirees, students, soldiers, the laid-off, and hard-working working class families the"welfare class", anyway? I mean, those are the people he was talking about."
(my emphasis)
Irrespective of the merit or otherwise of your claims re: 'welfare dependency', the ordinary people targeted by Romney and St Santorum are just that - ordinary hard working people, many of whom might choose to vote Republican. Romney and St Santorum are united in their contempt for ordinary people - people like you, me and almost all the people posting here.


And, herein lies our problem. I do think Romney was wrong, but not for saying what he said. He was wrong when it comes to the percentage he quoted. Sure, 47% of earners don't have a Federal Income Tax liability, but those people won't necessarily end up voting for Obama just because. Not every one of those 47% aren't working hard, striving for a better life, and cutting things out to get ahead. Some are. Some are playing the system. Some of those 47% are college attendees who don't have time to work 2 jobs and make enough money to be saddled with Federal Income Tax liability.

And for everyone to ponder, is Condoleeza Rice not intelligent?




mnottertail -> RE: Rick Santorum finally speaks truth (9/19/2012 7:45:16 AM)

I would characterize her as elitist, so by your definition, yes.  She can breathe without a beeper.




DesideriScuri -> RE: Rick Santorum finally speaks truth (9/19/2012 11:16:45 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
I would characterize her as elitist, so by your definition, yes.  She can breathe without a beeper.


How so? Wait, which meaning of "elitist" are you using there?




mnottertail -> RE: Rick Santorum finally speaks truth (9/19/2012 11:17:49 AM)

I SAID >so by your definition

Give that one a think.




DesideriScuri -> RE: Rick Santorum finally speaks truth (9/19/2012 11:35:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
I SAID >so by your definition
Give that one a think.


The question posed: Is Condoleeza Rice not intelligent?

Your answer: "I would characterize her as elitist, so by your definition, yes."

You would characterize her as an elitist. So, you are saying that you are characterizing her as an arrogrant snob and not intelligent. Is that actually agreeing that my definition of elitist is an accurate, though not the only, definition?!?




mnottertail -> RE: Rick Santorum finally speaks truth (9/19/2012 11:40:16 AM)

you equate intelligence with elitism, and have several times.  The I am confused in such a way that I will impugn your words and use strawmans in questioning fashion is sort of getting to be real fucking droll.

So are you saying that all republicans are crammed into airport bathrooms to perform homosexual acts?

^^^^^Like that.

Personally, I think Rice is a very fuckin ignorant cunt, totalling unadulterated floccinaucinihilipilification.    

My comment to you was a reductio ad absurdum, and certainly not agreement with your inaccurate representation of people, or even definitions. 




DesideriScuri -> RE: Rick Santorum finally speaks truth (9/19/2012 11:58:53 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
you equate intelligence with elitism, and have several times.  The I am confused in such a way that I will impugn your words and use strawmans in questioning fashion is sort of getting to be real fucking droll.
So are you saying that all republicans are crammed into airport bathrooms to perform homosexual acts?
^^^^^Like that.
Personally, I think Rice is a very fuckin ignorant cunt, totalling unadulterated floccinaucinihilipilification.    
My comment to you was a reductio ad absurdum, and certainly not agreement with your inaccurate representation of people, or even definitions. 


So, you are saying that the example I gave was not a strawman?




mnottertail -> RE: Rick Santorum finally speaks truth (9/19/2012 12:09:32 PM)

Nearly  every post you write contains at least one strawman.  So, we have agreements on your strawmen.




Politesub53 -> RE: Rick Santorum finally speaks truth (9/19/2012 12:48:18 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Nearly  every post you write contains at least one strawman.  So, we have agreements on your strawmen.



Should the plural of Strawman not be "A clutching of straws" ? [;)]




GotSteel -> RE: Rick Santorum finally speaks truth (9/19/2012 12:55:05 PM)

If it was a one time gaff I would give him the benefit of the doubt, maybe he was just feeling butthurt about being told his facts weren't factual or something.

But it's not, he's consistently courted the anti-education factions of the republican party throughout his campaign. He's called Obama a snob for valuing education and referred to education as indoctrination.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkjbJOSwq3A&feature=player_embedded


It is not arrogant to consider education more valuable than ignorance. It's not wrong to recognize that a candidate who understands that Africa is not a country is superior to Sarah Palin. It's not wrong to recognize that a candidate who knows real facts is superior to Rick Santorum.




DesideriScuri -> RE: Rick Santorum finally speaks truth (9/19/2012 5:56:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel
If it was a one time gaff I would give him the benefit of the doubt, maybe he was just feeling butthurt about being told his facts weren't factual or something.
But it's not, he's consistently courted the anti-education factions of the republican party throughout his campaign. He's called Obama a snob for valuing education and referred to education as indoctrination.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkjbJOSwq3A&feature=player_embedded
It is not arrogant to consider education more valuable than ignorance. It's not wrong to recognize that a candidate who understands that Africa is not a country is superior to Sarah Palin. It's not wrong to recognize that a candidate who knows real facts is superior to Rick Santorum.


That wasn't the point Santorum was making at all. lmao

Santorum was stating that everyone going to college isn't going to happen, nor is it necessary. Did the crew that built your road all go to college? Does a damn fine bricklayer need to go to college to learn how to lay brick?

You know what happens when we have everyone go to college? We have the best educated workforce doing the least education-demanding jobs. You want to take a college graduate and put him on a roofing crew, or would you rather have a guy that spent those same 4 years roofing?

Formal education isn't the only way to get somewhere in life (ask Bill Gates).

Would you rather have the guy that can't count to 4?
Would you rather have a guy that doesn't know that the USA has 50 states?




Politesub53 -> RE: Rick Santorum finally speaks truth (9/20/2012 3:12:23 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

Formal education isn't the only way to get somewhere in life (ask Bill Gates).



FFS, you say some stupid things but this takes the biscuit.




DesideriScuri -> RE: Rick Santorum finally speaks truth (9/20/2012 5:04:36 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Formal education isn't the only way to get somewhere in life (ask Bill Gates).

FFS, you say some stupid things but this takes the biscuit.


Really? Please, do go on and show me where I'm wrong. Or, was it that you're a MAC person, in which case, you can channel Steve Jobs. Is that better?




mnottertail -> RE: Rick Santorum finally speaks truth (9/20/2012 7:29:39 AM)

Ah yes, anecdotes are the new synecdoche.   Add to that list Gacy, Manson and Joe the Plumber and swirl all that in there in a nice spin.

Reality is the new reality.




Politesub53 -> RE: Rick Santorum finally speaks truth (9/20/2012 12:10:02 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Formal education isn't the only way to get somewhere in life (ask Bill Gates).

FFS, you say some stupid things but this takes the biscuit.


Really? Please, do go on and show me where I'm wrong. Or, was it that you're a MAC person, in which case, you can channel Steve Jobs. Is that better?



Are you suggesting Gates had an average schooling going to Lakeside, or that Princeton and Yale students dont have an advantage in life, or even that construction workers dont go to technical college ?




DesideriScuri -> RE: Rick Santorum finally speaks truth (9/20/2012 1:06:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Formal education isn't the only way to get somewhere in life (ask Bill Gates).

FFS, you say some stupid things but this takes the biscuit.

Really? Please, do go on and show me where I'm wrong. Or, was it that you're a MAC person, in which case, you can channel Steve Jobs. Is that better?

Are you suggesting Gates had an average schooling going to Lakeside, or that Princeton and Yale students dont have an advantage in life, or even that construction workers dont go to technical college ?


Construction workers don't necessarily go to college. "Trade school" isn't the same college, either. Trade School actually teaches you something you can rely on damn near anywhere at any time. Someone who went to school to be a CPA is relying on someone else to hire them, or will start their own business. It is still a necessity that someone requires a CPA. A tradesman can ply his trade working for someone, working for him/her self, and can even go into the production of products that require the special skills honed through plying the trade. Skilled tradesmen are not crawling out of the woodwork (no pun intended) like college graduates.




mnottertail -> RE: Rick Santorum finally speaks truth (9/20/2012 1:10:30 PM)

And they are not sawing out the woodwork in any great numbers either, so the point must be that there is no point.




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