RE: Rick Santorum finally speaks truth

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GotSteel -> RE: Rick Santorum finally speaks truth (9/22/2012 11:21:44 AM)
We're talking about Santorum not Romney.

slvemike4u -> RE: Rick Santorum finally speaks truth (9/22/2012 11:23:41 AM)
Nonsense,like creationism is non scientific,therefor hard to defend or explain.....sort of like wondering why science teachers resist the efforts to offer a non-scientific theory,such as creationism,in a scientific setting that is a science class.

Politesub53 -> RE: Rick Santorum finally speaks truth (9/22/2012 11:24:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GotSteel We're talking about Santorum not Romney. My bad, I meant Santorum and have watched the video in the OP. Thanks for the heads up.

MrRodgers -> RE: Rick Santorum finally speaks truth (9/22/2012 12:08:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: subspaceseven It does not get any better than this...... "Speaking Saturday at the Values Voters Summit, Rick Santorum said that “smart people” would never side with conservatives." Just remember that when you support the GOP on this or any other side... This is what they think of YOU..or at least one of the people who was running to be the GOP candidate here is the clip of him speaking www.rightwingwatch.org/content/santorum-we-will-never-have-elite-smart-people-our-side The real problem is on this particular note...Santorum is wrong. He means or should mean that "smart people would never side with republicans." The republicans haven't been 'conservatives' since 1980 and R. Reagan gave the political right (repubs) cover to be anything but. Conservatism as in the original conservatism reflected by our founding fathers and most (not all) of our 'leaders' for 3-4 generations...died after Goldwater. (this did not include his warmongering) Then real 'conservatism' was buried by Reagan when after saying that govt. isn't the solution, govt. IS the problem...gave us 8 years of proof.

MrRodgers -> RE: Rick Santorum finally speaks truth (9/22/2012 12:18:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: GotSteel http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20pjeeQ611s Here he is telling his audience to stop contributing to colleges. Seriously how many times does he need to speak out against education before you believe him? Why did he tell them to stop contributing? Because the colleges are "indoctrinating kids with left wing ideology." He is talking about stopping the indoctrination of kids. That wasn't about keeping the kids from getting an education. It was about keeping kids from being indoctrinated "with left wing ideology." Come on. At least try to not spin stuff. But the whole ridiculous postulation that colleges are indoctrinating students with some sort of left wing ideology is just more latter-day republican (current right wing) bullshit. As for their religious faith which is none of anybody's business, am I to believe that Santorum or his like, should prejudge theses college grads intelligence, logic or suitability for anything on that basis ? That's the suggestion and is a serious flaw in Santorum's character and anybody else's who feel the same way.

DesideriScuri -> RE: Rick Santorum finally speaks truth (9/22/2012 1:03:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GotSteel quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri he was talking against secular humanism. Bullshit! he never says that, "radical secular ideology" is vague enough that you could make up any excuse for his anti-education stance you want. I stand corrected. I hear "secular humanism" linked together enough that I was incorrect in stating that Santorum was railing against it. My bad. Doesn't change that he wasn't preaching against getting an education. quote: But instead of scouring these clips for secret hand signals, read his fucking legislation: quote: ORIGINAL: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santorum_Amendment The Santorum Amendment was a failed proposed amendment to the 2001 education funding bill (which became known as the No Child Left Behind Act), proposed by Republican Rick Santorum (who was at that time the United States Senator for Pennsylvania), which promoted the teaching of intelligent design while questioning the academic standing of evolution in U.S. public schools. OMG!!! His anti-education stance is so broad and deep that he's actually trying to get them to teach more!!! Holy fucking hell, batman!! Let's get this guy out of office!!! Oh, yeah. I'm with him on it. Intelligent Design should be taught just as Evolution is taught. Present it as two options to the beginning of Man. Then - at least outside of Texas - allow kids with their critical thinking skills to decide which one they believe. quote: He's a young earth creationist, he's trying to replace science education with his young earth creationist beliefs. I know this is true not just because he has said so but because he has written the legislation to do it. He isn't replacing any science education. He's trying to add other education to it all! quote: When he rants about smart people thinking they are superior, this is what he's talking about: quote: ORIGINAL: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santorum_Amendment In response, a coalition of 96 scientific and educational organizations wrote a letter to the conference committee, urging that the amendment be stricken from the final bill, arguing that evolution is, in the scientific fields, regarded as fact and that the amendment creates the mis-perception that evolution is not fully accepted in the scientific community, and thus weakens science curricula. The words of the amendment survive in modified form in the Bill's Conference Report and do not carry the weight of law. As one of the Discovery Institute intelligent design campaigns it became a cornerstone in the intelligent design movement's "Teach the Controversy" campaign. He's angry that scientists know more about science than he does. Good Lord. Could you possibly get any more ideological? I started a physics class last night. The instructor said that he was going to spend the next 10 minutes or so on the debate between science and religion, but only because it was in the book, and would not spend any more class time on it. Before he could get started, I raised my hand and asked him if it would ever show up on an exam. It was my view that if it's not going to be on any exam, and it isn't acting as a basis for future learning, why is it even being presented? He stated that all the religion vs. science issues are all one-sided... science doesn't care what the religious think. Know what? So, what's the problem? If the Theory of Evolution is right, why isn't it a Law?

DesideriScuri -> RE: Rick Santorum finally speaks truth (9/22/2012 1:10:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GotSteel quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri You don't need a decoder ring. Just pay attention. Cool no decoder ring needed. In that case turn off the truthiness and pay attention to the words that keep coming out of this mans mouth. He has spoken extensively on this subject. Here's another clip where he's speaking condescendingly about the scientific community, science and explains that he wants God in science class. There's nothing controversial of baffling about what I'm saying. It's well documented that the creationism movement which he is part of has spent decades trying to override the "scientific community" on what constitutes the science curriculum. What does a scientist do? What is the one thing that a scientist can not do, no matter what? What is Santorum saying the science community is doing to science education? I agree with him. I also disagree that he's working towards over-riding the scientific community. Remember that the world used to be flat, until it wasn't. That leeches were standard operation procedures for medical care, until they figured out it wasn't. Things are extinct, until they're found alive. Your arguing against Santorum is also taking the position that you don't want kids to learn to use critical thinking skills. They can only be presented with one side. They can not be presented with a differing idea, else it undermines education. Bullshit. If anything, it will teach kids to be better thinkers.

DesideriScuri -> RE: Rick Santorum finally speaks truth (9/22/2012 1:11:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GotSteel quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri Your "anti-education factions" label is, in and of itself, a lie. What label should I use to describe the various movements such as young earth creationism that routinely speak out against education because our knowledge of reality is not saying what they want to hear? Can you not tell that that's about the content of the education, and not education itself?!? Good Lord, man.

DesideriScuri -> RE: Rick Santorum finally speaks truth (9/22/2012 1:14:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: GotSteel quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri And, that's blamed on going to college? Or, is it the general loose morals of the college campus? What you quoted isn't Santorum making any anti-education statement. He's explaining why he's against colleges and the worst part is that his statistic isn't even true [sm=gaah.gif] He's against colleges that indoctrinate with left wind ideology. He's against people funding those colleges who hold different beliefs. I have no supporting proof for the stat, which is fine because I didn't use it. But, do you have credible proof the stat isn't true? Santorum, Feb. 26: You know the statistic that at least I was familiar with from a few years ago — I don't know if it still holds true but I suspect it may even be worse - that 62% of kids who enter college with some sort of faith commitment leave without it. Santorum made the claim more forcefully at a Jan. 25 appearance in Naples, Fla., where he said "you know 62% of children who enter college with a faith conviction leave without it." He also encouraged people to not give money to colleges. But Santorum's claims are off base. Those not attending college were more likely to stop going to religious services and to report they no longer had a religious affiliation than their college-going cohorts, according to data cited in a 2007 report published by the Social Science Research Council and unearthed by PBS. (We asked the Santorum campaign if this was indeed the report to which the former Pennsylvania senator was referring, but we have not received a response.) The report said: "Contrary to our own and others' expectations, however, young adults who never enrolled in college are presently the least religious young Americans." Data from the National Longitudinal Study of Adolescent Health, the authors wrote, showed that "64% of those currently enrolled in a traditional four-year institution have curbed their attendance habits." But the figure was higher for those not in college. "Yet, 76% of those who never enrolled in college report a decline in religious service attendance." Santorum doesn't say whether young adults later on, in their years after college, start going to church more frequently — but that's exactly what the authors of the 2007 report expect. They wrote that many Americans' religious expression drops off in young adulthood and picks back up again as they get older. "The climb back into regular or semi-regular religious practice — if it occurs at all, and it usually does — is often stimulated by marriage and childbearing." http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/story/2012-02-27/fact-check-santorum-college-faith/53274624/1 His claim was not off base at all. He wasn't comparing the attendance declines in college kids vs. non-college kids. He stated that 62% of college kids leave college with less of a faith blah blah blah. What part of that isn't correct? You have actually proven that his stat was, more or less, correct!

DesideriScuri -> RE: Rick Santorum finally speaks truth (9/22/2012 1:17:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MrRodgers But the whole ridiculous postulation that colleges are indoctrinating students with some sort of left wing ideology is just more latter-day republican (current right wing) bullshit. As for their religious faith which is none of anybody's business, am I to believe that Santorum or his like, should prejudge theses college grads intelligence, logic or suitability for anything on that basis ? That's the suggestion and is a serious flaw in Santorum's character and anybody else's who feel the same way. I'm not sure I understand your question well enough to answer it. If you would rephrase it, or explain what you're asking for, I'll be more than happy to answer it to the best of my ability.

GotSteel -> RE: Rick Santorum finally speaks truth (9/22/2012 1:55:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri Can you not tell that that's about the content of the education, and not education itself?!? Good Lord, man. When knowledge is replaced with nonsense it's not education anymore.

GotSteel -> RE: Rick Santorum finally speaks truth (9/22/2012 2:06:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri His claim was not off base at all. He wasn't comparing the attendance declines in college kids vs. non-college kids. He stated that 62% of college kids leave college with less of a faith blah blah blah. What part of that isn't correct? You have actually proven that his stat was, more or less, correct! His percentage number was close, for a politician speaking from memory I think that's just fine. However, he's used the statistic as evidence that colleges are faith stealing indoctrination mills at least twice that I'm aware of. That's not the statistic...his claim is the opposite of true according to what the statistic actually says.

tazzygirl -> RE: Rick Santorum finally speaks truth (9/22/2012 2:48:07 PM)
quote: His claim was not off base at all. He wasn't comparing the attendance declines in college kids vs. non-college kids. He stated that 62% of college kids leave college with less of a faith blah blah blah. What part of that isn't correct? You have actually proven that his stat was, more or less, correct! His stat was correct, his attempt to infer that a college education resulted in people losing their faith was incorrect. “I understand why Barack Obama wants to send every kid to college, because of their indoctrination mills, absolutely … The indoctrination that is going on at the university level is a harm to our country.” Now, since Santorum is so dead set against public education.... which I find laughable in regards to his using that public education in PA for his own kids, then getting busted and leaving the state to pick up the tab for his kids education.... http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/local/uncategorized/state-agrees-to-pay-penn-hills-schools-for-santorum-448697/

GotSteel -> RE: Rick Santorum finally speaks truth (9/22/2012 4:04:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri If the Theory of Evolution is right, why isn't it a Law? Your question is nonsensical and a perfect example of why it is so important not to let creationists anywhere near the science curriculum. You are repeating creationist propaganda, that's not how laws work. Evolution has been documented under laboratory conditions, it is a fact. It is a fact, that's not my position that's me quoting you the position of the scientific community again. Yet it is not a law and will not be a law not because it needs to be more proven but because THAT'S NOT HOW LAWS WORK [sm=hair.gif] quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri Oh, yeah. I'm with him on it. Intelligent Design should be taught just as Evolution is taught. Present it as two options to the beginning of Man. Then - at least outside of Texas - allow kids with their critical thinking skills to decide which one they believe. Evolution is not controversial among the scientific community and there is no alternate scientific theory. On this subject the massive overwhelming consensus of biologists is vastly superior to the opinion of someone who doesn't even know what a law is. Disagreeing with the massive overwhelming consensus of biologists on a subject where you are not even familiar with the basics is ridiculous. quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri He isn't replacing any science education. He's trying to add other education to it all! He's attempting to undermine the teaching of evolution, a core concept of biology. Young earth creationists have to reject evolution, it is one of a number scientific facts which are mutually exclusive with their religious beliefs in that it proves their religious beliefs to be wrong.

DesideriScuri -> RE: Rick Santorum finally speaks truth (9/22/2012 4:26:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GotSteel quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri Can you not tell that that's about the content of the education, and not education itself?!? Good Lord, man. When knowledge is replaced with nonsense it's not education anymore. That's just too damn funny. Is it possible that presenting both sides of an argument allows students to learn critical thinking skills? If that's not educating...

DesideriScuri -> RE: Rick Santorum finally speaks truth (9/22/2012 4:28:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GotSteel quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri His claim was not off base at all. He wasn't comparing the attendance declines in college kids vs. non-college kids. He stated that 62% of college kids leave college with less of a faith blah blah blah. What part of that isn't correct? You have actually proven that his stat was, more or less, correct! His percentage number was close, for a politician speaking from memory I think that's just fine. However, he's used the statistic as evidence that colleges are faith stealing indoctrination mills at least twice that I'm aware of. That's not the statistic...his claim is the opposite of true according to what the statistic actually says. So, you can prove that colleges aren't faith-stealing indoctrination mills? I wonder what the stat is when you factor everything out...

DesideriScuri -> RE: Rick Santorum finally speaks truth (9/22/2012 4:37:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: His claim was not off base at all. He wasn't comparing the attendance declines in college kids vs. non-college kids. He stated that 62% of college kids leave college with less of a faith blah blah blah. What part of that isn't correct? You have actually proven that his stat was, more or less, correct! His stat was correct, his attempt to infer that a college education resulted in people losing their faith was incorrect. That's based on....? quote: “I understand why Barack Obama wants to send every kid to college, because of their indoctrination mills, absolutely … The indoctrination that is going on at the university level is a harm to our country.” Now, since Santorum is so dead set against public education.... which I find laughable in regards to his using that public education in PA for his own kids, then getting busted and leaving the state to pick up the tab for his kids education.... http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/local/uncategorized/state-agrees-to-pay-penn-hills-schools-for-santorum-448697/ So, he pays all sorts of taxes in that area, including taxes to Penn Hills, State law says that the local school district has to pay a "fee" or whatever for kids enrolled in the cyber-school (I'm assuming it's akin to a charter school), Santorum's kids were attending the cyber school, and the school wasn't paying the cyber-school. Because of that, Santorum is against public education. Congratulations on your flexibility to stretch that far!

DesideriScuri -> RE: Rick Santorum finally speaks truth (9/22/2012 4:45:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GotSteel quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri If the Theory of Evolution is right, why isn't it a Law? Your question is nonsensical and a perfect example of why it is so important not to let creationists anywhere near the science curriculum. You are repeating creationist propaganda, that's not how laws work. Oh, then, do tell how laws work. This may get very interesting... quote: Evolution has been documented under laboratory conditions, it is a fact. Link? quote: It is a fact, that's not my position that's me quoting you the position of the scientific community again. Yet it is not a law and will not be a law not because it needs to be more proven but because THAT'S NOT HOW LAWS WORK [sm=hair.gif] How can something be more proven?!? It's like saying that you want things to be more fair. Either it's proven, or it's not. Either it's fair, or it's not. Is this another "consensus" thing (which is not how science actually works, btw)? quote: quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri Oh, yeah. I'm with him on it. Intelligent Design should be taught just as Evolution is taught. Present it as two options to the beginning of Man. Then - at least outside of Texas - allow kids with their critical thinking skills to decide which one they believe. Evolution is not controversial among the scientific community and there is no alternate scientific theory. On this subject the massive overwhelming consensus of biologists is vastly superior to the opinion of someone who doesn't even know what a law is. Disagreeing with the massive overwhelming consensus of biologists on a subject where you are not even familiar with the basics is ridiculous. I am not even familiar with the basics?!? And you know that.... how? quote: quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri He isn't replacing any science education. He's trying to add other education to it all! He's attempting to undermine the teaching of evolution, a core concept of biology. Providing two contrasting beliefs is undermining the teaching of evolution? If you are also teaching critical thinking skills, and both are presented as contrasting beliefs, would you not be improving the education of evolution? quote: Young earth creationists have to reject evolution, it is one of a number scientific facts which are mutually exclusive with their religious beliefs in that it proves their religious beliefs to be wrong. Is a Young earth creationist different from a regular creationist, or do you just like the typing practice (and I've never heard of a "Young earth" creationist)?

tazzygirl -> RE: Rick Santorum finally speaks truth (9/22/2012 4:50:46 PM)
quote: So, he pays all sorts of taxes in that area, including taxes to Penn Hills, State law says that the local school district has to pay a "fee" or whatever for kids enrolled in the cyber-school (I'm assuming it's akin to a charter school), Santorum's kids were attending the cyber school, and the school wasn't paying the cyber-school. Because of that, Santorum is against public education. Congratulations on your flexibility to stretch that far! Read the link. You might not appear so misinformed that way.

DesideriScuri -> RE: Rick Santorum finally speaks truth (9/22/2012 5:55:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: So, he pays all sorts of taxes in that area, including taxes to Penn Hills, State law says that the local school district has to pay a "fee" or whatever for kids enrolled in the cyber-school (I'm assuming it's akin to a charter school), Santorum's kids were attending the cyber school, and the school wasn't paying the cyber-school. Because of that, Santorum is against public education. Congratulations on your flexibility to stretch that far! Read the link. You might not appear so misinformed that way. Where am I wrong (I did read the link, btw)?

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