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RE: Romney.... product of welfare state - 9/19/2012 2:41:15 PM   
JanahX


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RE: Romney.... product of welfare state - 9/19/2012 2:45:25 PM   
Arturas


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

quote:


Let's take the food stamp program. It has grown 50 percent since Obama took office and he boosted benifits with stimulus programs (the "hidden" welfare increase). This number is not in your number.


Why did the republicans fund that 50% increase?  Only they can do it, revenue and spending originates in the house.  They did that for their teabaggers who are the welfare patients in this country. 






Okay. One more attempt by someone to divert I will deal with soundly.

"Why did the Republicans fund blah blah and blah..."
The Dems had both houses when that happened in 2009. So, guess I win again.

"They did that...blah blah".
Same answer I suppose would apply here. Since "they" did not do it then "they"...oh never mind...I still win.

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RE: Romney.... product of welfare state - 9/19/2012 2:47:38 PM   
Arturas


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JanahX

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I like the colors.

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RE: Romney.... product of welfare state - 9/19/2012 2:51:29 PM   
Arturas


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

quote:


Let's take the food stamp program. It has grown 50 percent since Obama took office and he boosted benifits with stimulus programs (the "hidden" welfare increase). This number is not in your number.


Why did the republicans fund that 50% increase?  Only they can do it, revenue and spending originates in the house.  They did that for their teabaggers who are the welfare patients in this country. 






Okay. One more attempt by someone to divert I will deal with soundly.

"Why did the Republicans fund blah blah and blah..."
The Dems had both houses when that happened in 2009. So, guess I win again.

"They did that...blah blah".
Same answer I suppose would apply here. Since "they" did not do it then "they"...oh never mind...I still win.



....and kinda as a "oh by the way'...the Dems (Obama/Pelosi) were focused on food stamps and taking over health care and not ... what...anyone...go ahead, you dems too...all togther everyone...

"It's The Economy, Stupid".

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RE: Romney.... product of welfare state - 9/19/2012 2:52:57 PM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas


quote:

ORIGINAL: JanahX

Pie Chart -






I like the colors.

But, are you capable of understanding what it says?


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RE: Romney.... product of welfare state - 9/19/2012 2:54:07 PM   
JanahX


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas


quote:

ORIGINAL: JanahX

Pie Chart -






I like the colors.

But, are you capable of understanding what it says?


Yeah - It reads, we owe China money and that we're fucked.

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RE: Romney.... product of welfare state - 9/19/2012 5:13:44 PM   
LookieNoNookie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

http://www.opposingviews.com/i/politics/2012-election/video-mitt-romney-son-welfare-receiving-mexican-immigrant-mother-says

The GOP presidential ticket of Mitt Romney and Rep. Paul Ryan is fond of attacking 'social entitlements,' but their campaign has failed to mention that Mitt Romney's father George Romney was on "welfare relief" when he first arrived in the U.S., according to an interview with Romney's mother Lenore recorded in 1962.

George Romney was running for governor in Michigan in 1962, so this interview was part of Lenore's effort to help him get elected, which he was (video below).

George Romney was born in Mexico and moved with his family to El Paso, Texas, during the Mexican Revolution, reports addictinginfo.org.

The family received $250, food, clothing, and other supplies from the U.S. government. The family later invested some of their money in the stock market and used that cash to send George Romney to college.





And?

This entire uproar is regards a stupid video that almost everyone has taken out of context.

A hand up is a wonderful thing....this just shows how effective that speech was as to the specifics....which were....47% of the population is hinged on taking something from the govt., ergo, where will their loyalties be?

Follow the money.

It always leads to the truth.

He further stated (in that same video) that he felt he could get 'some small percentage of the votes of people who want a better life...people who want to get out of the rut they're in" (I'm paraphrasing)..."but not most".

Why?

Because he felt (intelligently) that most people would rather be in the position of paying taxes...and he'd like to help them do so, and 47% of the population are not in the position to do so.

Some percentage of that 47% can be. Many don't know how to be, and some never will be able to.

(Tazzy....for clarity....I'm referring to federal income taxes....and no others).

I fucking loooooove it when my tax bill is extraordinary...because that means I'm making a lot.

His suggestion was that...if we can lift these folks (certainly not all) up to a point where they're making (more) money....then it would be beneficial to society because...they'll be making more money....they'll be paying (federal income tax) and the benefits will surround us all.

Who can argue with that? (I'm confident you'll find a way).

If his father came to this country and was "on the dole", it only proves the validity of his argument that...."you can rise above this....it can be done....and there's no one stopping you....but you". In most cases.

I've told you, I stopped voting since Gore lost the election with 1,000,000 more votes than Bush....but (as a non voter and a Republican...let's all recall, Gore was a Democrat....but the system should have prevailed) I'll say this....

If I have a choice between someone who is bland giving a speech but who has "done it" (as to economics/jobs) over a guy who has fucked everything sideways since Sunday....

I'll take the take the guy that's done it as opposed to the guy that wants to.

Every day.

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RE: Romney.... product of welfare state - 9/19/2012 5:18:47 PM   
fucktoyprincess


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FR

I think by definition, conservatives do not care about the past, and care even less about the future. They will manipulate whatever they can to maximize their wealth in the here and now, at the expense of anyone who crosses their path. That's the name of the game.

< Message edited by fucktoyprincess -- 9/19/2012 5:19:18 PM >


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RE: Romney.... product of welfare state - 9/19/2012 5:26:35 PM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

And?


And dont demonize the same system your past gereations have also utilized when they needed a helping hand.

quote:

He further stated (in that same video) that he felt he could get 'some small percentage of the votes of people who want a better life...people who want to get out of the rut they're in" (I'm paraphrasing)..."but not most".


Because most who use welfare these days include the blind and the elderly. They CANT come off it.

quote:

If his father came to this country and was "on the dole", it only proves the validity of his argument that...."you can rise above this....it can be done....and there's no one stopping you....but you". In most cases.


Pst... that constitutes 20% of the welfare enrollees.

20%....

The other 80% are on and off within 5 years....

60% by the end of two years.

The states decide for extensions to the 5 year limit.

So, lets attack a system that is ACTUALLY working.

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RE: Romney.... product of welfare state - 9/19/2012 5:31:42 PM   
Arturas


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quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

FR

I think by definition, conservatives do not care about the past, and care even less about the future. They will manipulate whatever they can to maximize their wealth in the here and now, at the expense of anyone who crosses their path. That's the name of the game.


I am your fellow American citizen first, and a Republican second. I have no wealth that I manupulate anything I can to maximize nor do I vote for anyone who does this. I care about our past and I care very much about yours and my future. I am not alone among Republicans in this regard, including Mitt. Mitt is your fellow American citizen first, a Morman second and a Republican third. Neither I nor Mitt nor Obama are bad people. Instead they are people with different priorities and views and methods of leadership for our country. Ok, maybe I am bad. But I am certain you honestly believe that rather than making some off the wall statement and I respect that belief. I would only ask why you believe that and promise I will not dream of challenging your beliefs in public.

Arturas

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RE: Romney.... product of welfare state - 9/19/2012 5:36:24 PM   
Lucylastic


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oooooh well what have we here, ....
Trying to recover, Romney says he's poor Americans' best bet
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/09/19/us-usa-campaign-idUSBRE88G19620120919

Mitt Romney said on Wednesday he would do a better job of helping the poor than President Barack Obama as the Republican candidate tried to recover from his disparaging remarks about the half of the country that gets government benefits.

Romney has sought to make the November 6 election a referendum on Obama's economic stewardship, but the spotlight over the past week has been fixed firmly on his own missteps. A secretly recorded video that surfaced on Monday showed him writing off supporters of Obama as welfare recipients with no sense of personal responsibility.

Some 43 percent of registered voters thought less of Romney after seeing the video, according to a Reuters/Ipsos poll, while a mostly Republican 26 percent viewed him more favorably. Independent voters were more likely to say the video lowered their opinion of Romney.

Romney hopes to recover by framing the presidential election as a choice between big government and economic growth. At an Atlanta fundraiser, Romney said he wanted to spur job creation by encouraging private enterprise.

"The question in this campaign is not who cares about the poor and the middle class. I do, he does," Romney said, jabbing the podium with his index finger and his voice rising with emotion.

"The question is who can help the poor and the middle class. I can, he can't and he's proven it in four years," he said.

Romney's campaign argues that Obama has presided over a stagnant economy, forcing more Americans to rely on food stamps and other government assistance.

The video, recorded in May at a luxurious Florida home, shows Romney telling wealthy campaign donors that 47 percent of Americans would back Obama no matter what. "I'll never convince them they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives," he says.

The remarks fed into a perception that multimillionaire Romney has battled throughout the campaign: that he is insensitive to the struggles of less-wealthy Americans. They drew condemnation from Democrats and an array of Republicans, including congressional candidates and conservative columnists.

In an apparent attempt to deflect attention from the video, Republicans are pointing to a 1998 recording that surfaced this week of Obama discussing his belief in "a certain level" of wealth distribution.

"Mitt Romney and I are not running to redistribute the wealth. Mitt Romney and I are running to help Americans create wealth," Romney's vice presidential running mate, Paul Ryan, said at a campaign event in Danville, Virginia.
More @ the link

And yet, there are still no clues as to his actual plans... apart from cut spending and lowering taxes for the wealthy and raising them on the poor?
Just attack on the ""redistribution" furor that lasted less time than joes plumbing days

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RE: Romney.... product of welfare state - 9/19/2012 5:38:22 PM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess
FR
I think by definition, conservatives do not care about the past, and care even less about the future. They will manipulate whatever they can to maximize their wealth in the here and now, at the expense of anyone who crosses their path. That's the name of the game.


Wow. Where'd you get that definition?

_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

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RE: Romney.... product of welfare state - 9/19/2012 5:39:12 PM   
fucktoyprincess


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas


quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

FR

I think by definition, conservatives do not care about the past, and care even less about the future. They will manipulate whatever they can to maximize their wealth in the here and now, at the expense of anyone who crosses their path. That's the name of the game.


I am your fellow American citizen first, and a Republican second. I have no wealth that I manupulate anything I can to maximize nor do I vote for anyone who does this. I care about our past and I care very much about yours and my future. I am not alone among Republicans in this regard, including Mitt. Mitt is your fellow American citizen first, a Morman second and a Republican third. Neither I nor Mitt nor Obama are bad people. Instead they are people with different priorities and views and methods of leadership for our country. Ok, maybe I am bad. But I am certain you honestly believe that rather than making some off the wall statement and I respect that belief. I would only ask why you believe that and promise I will not dream of challenging your beliefs in public.

Arturas


Conservative policies within the last 25 years or so have all been about reducing property and income taxes and also reducing payments made for any type of infrastructure or social assistance, whether it is education, health, welfare or other. What this does is ensure that people have more in their pocket today, but does so at the expense of future generations. This is well documented. For one very small example, look at the impact that Proposition 13 has had on the education system in California. And that is just the tip of the iceberg.

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RE: Romney.... product of welfare state - 9/19/2012 5:44:14 PM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
Ooops... missed part of my OP.
Why is he denigrating 47% of the US when his own grandfather used that very system Romney is complaining about?

Is Romney calling for an end to *all* entitlements? Is he going to remove all Federal assistance from the services offered by the Federal government?

No he isn't,and I have seen no one here suggest he is...what he is doing though is denigrating all of those who avail themselves of those programs.
And please do not bother denying this,at best his words suggest that all of those folks can be counted on to ,in effect,sell their votes in order to keep this gravy train rolling.


I have said he was wrong, but not for his intent. His %-age is wrong. 47% don't pay Federal Income taxes (on net, tazzy), so they aren't contributing in that way (and I'm only talking about Federal Income taxes, tazzy). All those people aren't the ones who aren't going to vote for Romney, or vote automatically for Obama. That's ludicrous. If it were true, Romney's a landslide victim in November. Do you think Obama can count on 3% of the top 53% of tax filers for support? That puts him at 50%, and that's a pretty tough number to beat.

And, I will tell you I believe more people will sell their votes than not, to keep government giving to them.

_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

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Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Romney.... product of welfare state - 9/19/2012 5:44:21 PM   
Lucylastic


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RE: Romney.... product of welfare state - 9/19/2012 5:49:57 PM   
JanahX


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Just wait till' he sticks his foot in his mouth in the debates. Which he will. No doubt about it.

He likes the taste of his feet.

The polls will really reflect then.

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RE: Romney.... product of welfare state - 9/19/2012 6:02:28 PM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

I have said he was wrong, but not for his intent. His %-age is wrong. 47% don't pay Federal Income taxes (on net, tazzy), so they aren't contributing in that way (and I'm only talking about Federal Income taxes, tazzy).


part of that 47% do pay federal income taxes. They get a refund at the end of the year. Thats a year long free of charge use to the tax payers money. No pay in, no refund check.

See how that works?

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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Romney.... product of welfare state - 9/19/2012 6:14:02 PM   
LookieNoNookie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

And?


And dont demonize the same system your past gereations have also utilized when they needed a helping hand.

I'm not aware of ever having done so.

quote:

He further stated (in that same video) that he felt he could get 'some small percentage of the votes of people who want a better life...people who want to get out of the rut they're in" (I'm paraphrasing)..."but not most".


Because most who use welfare these days include the blind and the elderly. They CANT come off it.

You may have missed my comment....I'll repost it for you, highlighted twice now for additional reference if it proves helpful for you.."but not most"...his words....not mine. Having invented something for blind people back in 1994, received 2 patents on same, installed now in 39 states, I'm quite familiar with their needs and in fact assisted in writing some of the federal legislation prior to January 10, 2001 when we presented our final findings to the DOJ. I not only couldn't....I wouldn't argue this point.

quote:

If his father came to this country and was "on the dole", it only proves the validity of his argument that...."you can rise above this....it can be done....and there's no one stopping you....but you". In most cases.


Pst... that constitutes 20% of the welfare enrollees.

20%....

The other 80% are on and off within 5 years....

60% by the end of two years.

The states decide for extensions to the 5 year limit.

That's fabulous. Did you simply want to argue? Because I have no debate with this.

So, lets attack a system that is ACTUALLY working.

Well, contrary to your suggestion, (and thank you, by the way for same) my preference would be to attack the ones that aren't. The one's that work...I'm thinking we should keep (It's a gut feel, but I'm gonna go with it).



< Message edited by LookieNoNookie -- 9/19/2012 6:17:35 PM >

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RE: Romney.... product of welfare state - 9/19/2012 6:26:33 PM   
LookieNoNookie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess
FR
I think by definition, conservatives do not care about the past, and care even less about the future. They will manipulate whatever they can to maximize their wealth in the here and now, at the expense of anyone who crosses their path. That's the name of the game.


Wow. Where'd you get that definition?


Oh you didn't know?

It's a fact.

It was posted on CollarMe.com for gawwwds sake.

Conservatives, more specifically, Republicans are evil fucks bent on destroying the world.

(That is a total known fact).

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Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Romney.... product of welfare state - 9/19/2012 6:35:15 PM   
subrob1967


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Things that make you go hmmm...




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