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RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 10/1/2012 6:56:48 AM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun


And the lead investigator's thoughts were that the evidence did not exist to disprove the self defense claim, which is why they did not arrest.

As I remember, that's incorrect. The lead investigator wanted to arrest him that night and the Assistant DA called the police department that night and told him not to.

That's the main question I have. Did Zim's retired judge daddy call the DA and ask for a favor?

Why else would someone who hasn't even visited the scene ot looked at the evidence call the detective and tell him not to charge Zim?

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RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 10/1/2012 7:00:20 AM   
Raiikun


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

As I remember, that's incorrect. The lead investigator wanted to arrest him that night and the Assistant DA called the police department that night and told him not to.


That investigator admitted to the FBI that he did not feel there was evidence to press charges but was pressured by three officers to make an arrest.

And George's father wasn't a retired judge; he was a retired magistrate from Virginia with no pull in Florida.

< Message edited by Raiikun -- 10/1/2012 7:01:39 AM >

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 302
RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 10/1/2012 7:06:21 AM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

And George's father wasn't a retired judge; he was a retired magistrate from Virginia with no pull in Florida.


And there is another lie told by Zimmerman.

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RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 10/1/2012 7:09:25 AM   
Louve00


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Zimmerman should have been arrested that night, turned in his gun, been processed and then allowed bail. Thats typically what happens with most people who kill someone and the actions are questionable.

The problem is that the police, except for the detective who had a grudge against Zimmerman for defending homeless people against the police didn't see enough evidence for an aresst let alone a conviction. The evidence hasn't changed. There is still nothing to reject self defense, question perhaps but refute no.


And yet, when the state stepped in, he finally (about a month after the fact!) was charged (with 2nd degree murder), arrested and bail was set. And then set again, when they found out Zimmerman and his wife deceived the court. The defense wanted a new judge because that judge called it as it was and they got a new judge. This new judge is a hard ass too, so I think that alone is well served. Trayvon Martin wasn't homeless. That reason plays into nothing here. It took the family speaking out about the injustice before any media got involved.

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Profile   Post #: 304
RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 10/1/2012 7:10:40 AM   
Raiikun


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Louve00


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Zimmerman should have been arrested that night, turned in his gun, been processed and then allowed bail. Thats typically what happens with most people who kill someone and the actions are questionable.

The problem is that the police, except for the detective who had a grudge against Zimmerman for defending homeless people against the police didn't see enough evidence for an aresst let alone a conviction. The evidence hasn't changed. There is still nothing to reject self defense, question perhaps but refute no.


And yet, when the state stepped in, he finally (about a month after the fact!) was charged (with 2nd degree murder), arrested and bail was set. And then set again, when they found out Zimmerman and his wife deceived the court. The defense wanted a new judge because that judge called it as it was and they got a new judge. This new judge is a hard ass too, so I think that alone is well served. Trayvon Martin wasn't homeless. That reason plays into nothing here. It took the family speaking out about the injustice before any media got involved.


And when George is acquitted, it will have cost the State hundreds of thousands of dollars for nothing.

(in reply to Louve00)
Profile   Post #: 305
RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 10/1/2012 7:14:49 AM   
crazyml


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Zimmerman should have been arrested that night, turned in his gun, been processed and then allowed bail. Thats typically what happens with most people who kill someone and the actions are questionable.

The problem is that the police, except for the detective who had a grudge against Zimmerman for defending homeless people against the police didn't see enough evidence for an aresst let alone a conviction. The evidence hasn't changed. There is still nothing to reject self defense, question perhaps but refute no.


Fuck me... THERE WAS A CORPSE... now call me an old stick in the mud, but the presence of a fucking dead person, and someone who admits to having caused the dead person's demise, is as sure as fuck grounds to arrest them.

Fuck me.



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Profile   Post #: 306
RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 10/1/2012 7:15:21 AM   
Raiikun


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

And George's father wasn't a retired judge; he was a retired magistrate from Virginia with no pull in Florida.


And there is another lie told by Zimmerman.


Got a quote?

Also back to this:

quote:

The lead investigator wanted to arrest him that night and the Assistant DA called the police department that night and told him not to.


It's of note that when the capias for manslaughter was filed (March 13, not the night of the shooting), the SPD still didn't feel there was sufficient evidence for an arrest, and made a statement that the reason for the capias was so prosecutors would take over and continue the investigation.


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Profile   Post #: 307
RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 10/1/2012 7:17:14 AM   
Raiikun


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quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml

Fuck me... THERE WAS A CORPSE... now call me an old stick in the mud, but the presence of a fucking dead person, and someone who admits to having caused the dead person's demise, is as sure as fuck grounds to arrest them.

Fuck me.



Except under the law, Probable Cause is still needed that it was an unjustified killing before an arrest is made.

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Profile   Post #: 308
RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 10/1/2012 7:18:33 AM   
Louve00


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Joined: 2/1/2009
Status: offline 		We shall see, Raiikun. We shall see. You vehemently defending GZ and others (including me) thinking Trayvon was murdered needlessly, will all see, in time. And all these posts about it will have been for nothing, too!

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Profile   Post #: 309
RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 10/1/2012 7:19:06 AM   
crazyml


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun

And when George is acquitted, it will have cost the State hundreds of thousands of dollars for nothing.



So... you don't reckon there should be a trial?

You don't think there should be an examination of the evidence?

Do you think everyone should just "take a guy's word for it"?

Can you see the potential problems that "take a guy's word for it" approach might cause... c'mon! Work with me....

If George, who - and you have to concede this - has all the markings of a nut-job-homicidal-maniac - gets acquitted (and I'm afraid I think he will be) it will be after his justification is tested.

If he's found guilty, it will be because his justification failed the test.

But for fuck's sake... in any event, it has to be tested.


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Profile   Post #: 310
RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 10/1/2012 7:19:07 AM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

As I remember, that's incorrect. The lead investigator wanted to arrest him that night and the Assistant DA called the police department that night and told him not to.


That investigator admitted to the FBI that he did not feel there was evidence to press charges but was pressured by three officers to make an arrest.

And George's father wasn't a retired judge; he was a retired magistrate from Virginia with no pull in Florida.

1. A Commonwealth magistrate has many of the powers generally reserved for judges. http://www.bvso.net/Documents/The%20Office%20of%20The%20Virginia%20Magistrate.pdf

2. If you think a retired magistrate, judge or LEO from one state has no ability to (make a phone call and see if I cant 'talk to someone' wherever they might they settle) you are incredibly naive.

3. Here is the evidence that the DA requested that Zim not be arrested. http://www.newser.com/story/142833/lead-cop-wanted-zimmerman-arrested.html

As for cops pressuring another cop to go ahead and make an arrest, isn't that what cops do? At least they were in the building looking at the guy instead of a DA that made a phone call near midnight for some reason. My question is "What motivated a DA to make a phone call near midnight to instruct a police officer not to make an arrest?".

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

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Profile   Post #: 311
RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 10/1/2012 7:27:24 AM   
Raiikun


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
3. Here is the evidence that the DA requested that Zim not be arrested. http://www.newser.com/story/142833/lead-cop-wanted-zimmerman-arrested.html


I've heard claims of that affidavit before, except there's no record of it actually existing. Looking at what evidence actually does exist shows Serino questioning George that night until midnight-ish, then again the next day, then again the day after, and later telling the media and the FBI that he didn't feel evidence existed to make an arrest.

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Profile   Post #: 312
RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 10/1/2012 7:46:47 AM   
vincentML


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quote:

If George, who - and you have to concede this - has all the markings of a nut-job-homicidal-maniac - gets acquitted (and I'm afraid I think he will be) it will be after his justification is tested.

Hmmmm. . . . what are the markings of a nut-job-homocidal-maniac anyway? Just wondeering.

(in reply to crazyml)
Profile   Post #: 313
RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 10/1/2012 7:54:11 AM   
Nosathro


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From: Orange County, California
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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

If George, who - and you have to concede this - has all the markings of a nut-job-homicidal-maniac - gets acquitted (and I'm afraid I think he will be) it will be after his justification is tested.

Hmmmm. . . . what are the markings of a nut-job-homocidal-maniac anyway? Just wondeering.


How about the "It was in God Plan that I kill Martin" for starters?

(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 314
RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 10/1/2012 7:56:27 AM   
farglebargle


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quote:


And looking at the evidence now, it really isn't hard to see why they didn't feel there was probable cause.



Why do you disagree with the Judge who signed off on it? The Judge explicitly believed that the evidence supported the charge, otherwise he wouldn't have permitted it. So, I'm very curious as to what you know which the Judge doesn't?

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Profile   Post #: 315
RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 10/1/2012 8:02:03 AM   
vincentML


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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

Some here make the most impassioned accusations with flimsy evidence. Sorta like we'll hang him and then have a trial to prove him guilty.


Can you please provide a detailed list of EVERYONE who suggested we hang Zimmerman and then have a trial, because as I've witnessed, EVERYONE HAS DEMANDED A TRIAL TO SORT OUT ZIMMERMAN'S CONFLICTING CLAIMS.

The only person I see suggesting otherwise is you, and I wonder what your motivation is.

You wonder what my motivation is? Oh my, that is a bit of an ad hoc jab isn't it? Feeling a little defensive are you? All those threads you started on this topic.

And aren't you twisting my words a bit here? Yes, you are. I said some here make the most impassioned accusations. I drew an analogy to the hang em first, try em later mentality. If the analogy is too abstruse for you I nevertheless stand by it. All the nattering nit-picking with respect to this event is unseemly imo.

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Profile   Post #: 316
RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 10/1/2012 8:04:58 AM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

If George, who - and you have to concede this - has all the markings of a nut-job-homicidal-maniac - gets acquitted (and I'm afraid I think he will be) it will be after his justification is tested.

Hmmmm. . . . what are the markings of a nut-job-homocidal-maniac anyway? Just wondeering.


How about the "It was in God Plan that I kill Martin" for starters?


Okay, how about it? If George said that it can easily be the same as saying the incident was an unintentional act of fate. Nothing nut-jobbie about that.

(in reply to Nosathro)
Profile   Post #: 317
RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 10/1/2012 8:06:34 AM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
3. Here is the evidence that the DA requested that Zim not be arrested. http://www.newser.com/story/142833/lead-cop-wanted-zimmerman-arrested.html


I've heard claims of that affidavit before, except there's no record of it actually existing. Looking at what evidence actually does exist shows Serino questioning George that night until midnight-ish, then again the next day, then again the day after, and later telling the media and the FBI that he didn't feel evidence existed to make an arrest.


You're tapdancing around the question. "Why would the DA call near midnight and interfere with an investigation?"


_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 318
RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 10/1/2012 8:10:11 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

If George, who - and you have to concede this - has all the markings of a nut-job-homicidal-maniac - gets acquitted (and I'm afraid I think he will be) it will be after his justification is tested.

Hmmmm. . . . what are the markings of a nut-job-homocidal-maniac anyway? Just wondeering.


How about the "It was in God Plan that I kill Martin" for starters?


Okay, how about it? If George said that it can easily be the same as saying the incident was an unintentional act of fate. Nothing nut-jobbie about that.



Oh, if he had said the 'same as' which it isn't and he didn't, that would be a reasonable statement, if he said the other, he is needing serious headpipe wrenching maintenance.

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Profile   Post #: 319
RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 10/1/2012 8:10:46 AM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
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quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml

So... you don't reckon there should be a trial?



Unless there's some compelling evidence that supports the charge that hasn't been made public, then no. There shouldn't have been an arrest.



quote:

You don't think there should be an examination of the evidence?


I think that was done.


quote:

Do you think everyone should just "take a guy's word for it"?

Can you see the potential problems that "take a guy's word for it" approach might cause... c'mon! Work with me....


Strawman, I've taken no such stance. It's the overwhelming evidence that backs up a self defense claim, and the utter lack of any evidence to refute it that has me believing there shouldn't have been an arrest.


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Profile   Post #: 320
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