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RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 10/1/2012 8:12:00 AM   
Raiikun


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

You're tapdancing around the question. "Why would the DA call near midnight and interfere with an investigation?"




I've not seen anything sufficient to believe that happened. There were a lot of claims about the case in those early days that turned out to be outright fabrications.

< Message edited by Raiikun -- 10/1/2012 8:16:32 AM >

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 321
RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 10/1/2012 8:19:17 AM   
vincentML


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Joined: 10/31/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

I never said he didnt. I merely asked how Martin's body came to rest on the ground, face down.

There is too much that, for me, doesnt fit the story.

Trying to put myself in Zimmerman's place for the moment and assuming what he said was more or less true, more or less because in the haze of adrenaline rush and panic events can easily be jumbled in the mind, but consider: There have been several reported burglaries by young blacks. I am on my back and a strong kid is straddling me. My nose is aflame. Maybe my eyes tearing. The holster becomes visible and the kid reaches for it. I clamp my arm against his desperately to stop his reach and BANG! I have shot him. He looks surprised and starts to fall toward me. Holy shit! I'm desperate to get free so I push him to the side in PANIC!!

All speculative on my part but based on what George said. So, I can see how Martin landed face down. It is easy for us to theorize all the bits and pieces in the cold, calm light of our pc screens. But in the moment? Oh, that is a different situation. I try to place myself in the moment. I try.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 322
RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 10/1/2012 8:21:43 AM   
vincentML


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Joined: 10/31/2009
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quote:

Oh, if he had said the 'same as' which it isn't and he didn't, that would be a reasonable statement, if he said the other, he is needing serious headpipe wrenching maintenance.

*shrugs* Depends on your religious inclinations, don't it? I think so.

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 323
RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 10/1/2012 8:22:11 AM   
Nosathro


Posts: 3319
Joined: 9/25/2005
From: Orange County, California
Status: offline 		Speaking about the Police, Intern Police Chief Myers now blames Spokesperson Sgt. David Morgenstern for all the trouble the police had in handling the Zimmerman case. What interesting to me is that the then Police Chief Bill Lee who also agrued for not charging Zimmerman on the night of the shoting was the only instructor at the community college that gave a passing grade to Zimmerman, he fail the rest of the classes. Lee was also a Lieutant in the Sheriffs Department and knew Osterman, the fired deputy who is Zimmerman body guard and wrote a book defending Zimmerman, but it appears it did even more damage to Zimmerman story. Zimmerman stated he was going to the store when in fact he and Osterman came from the Credit Union, the ATM camera shows Osterman making a withdrawal from Zimmerman account. Osterman was allowed to attend the video reenactment as well as hang out the crime scene that night.

http://www.businessinsider.com/sanford-police-blame-spokesman-for-public-backlash-after-trayvon-martins-death-2012-9

O'Mara now admits the Fox interview was disastrous (really?) he blames Hannity for it becasue Zimmerman looked on Hannity as a saviour? I think O'Mara is really loosing it, he called for "Stand Your Ground" hearing, found out the new judge was hard he changed his mind and canceled the request. Now O'Mara goes to the press stating Zimmerman is not a racist, his great grandfather was black?????????

http://www.businessinsider.com/lawyer-george-zimmerman-isnt-racist-2012-10

(in reply to Nosathro)
Profile   Post #: 324
RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 10/1/2012 8:23:23 AM   
Hillwilliam


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Joined: 8/27/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

You're tapdancing around the question. "Why would the DA call near midnight and interfere with an investigation?"




I've not seen anything sufficient to believe that happened. There were a lot of claims about the case in those early days that turned out to be outright fabrications.


I have seen you claim that it is a fabrication that the DA called and told tyhe cops to back off but I haven't seen you post a shred of evidence.


There were literally hundreds of reports that the police wanted to arrest Zimmerman and let the courts decide his innocence or guilt and the DA interfered.
(Had it played out this way, I don't think there would have been any controversy)
Post something to the contrary.

You keep saying that it never happened. prove it.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 325
RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 10/1/2012 8:28:53 AM   
tazzygirl


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Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

And George's father wasn't a retired judge; he was a retired magistrate from Virginia with no pull in Florida.


And there is another lie told by Zimmerman.


Got a quote?

Also back to this:

quote:

The lead investigator wanted to arrest him that night and the Assistant DA called the police department that night and told him not to.


It's of note that when the capias for manslaughter was filed (March 13, not the night of the shooting), the SPD still didn't feel there was sufficient evidence for an arrest, and made a statement that the reason for the capias was so prosecutors would take over and continue the investigation.




Yep...

http://www.scribd.com/doc/87064208/George-Zimmerman%E2%80%99s-application-for-the-Citizens-Police-Academy-in-2008

He said on his application that dad was a retired Magistrate Judge for the supreme court of Virginia.

Huge difference that a magistrate who isnt even a judge.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 326
RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 10/1/2012 8:29:01 AM   
Nosathro


Posts: 3319
Joined: 9/25/2005
From: Orange County, California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

I never said he didnt. I merely asked how Martin's body came to rest on the ground, face down.

There is too much that, for me, doesnt fit the story.

Trying to put myself in Zimmerman's place for the moment and assuming what he said was more or less true, more or less because in the haze of adrenaline rush and panic events can easily be jumbled in the mind, but consider: There have been several reported burglaries by young blacks. I am on my back and a strong kid is straddling me. My nose is aflame. Maybe my eyes tearing. The holster becomes visible and the kid reaches for it. I clamp my arm against his desperately to stop his reach and BANG! I have shot him. He looks surprised and starts to fall toward me. Holy shit! I'm desperate to get free so I push him to the side in PANIC!!

All speculative on my part but based on what George said. So, I can see how Martin landed face down. It is easy for us to theorize all the bits and pieces in the cold, calm light of our pc screens. But in the moment? Oh, that is a different situation. I try to place myself in the moment. I try.


Still does not justifiy murder. There is nothing I repeat NOTHING that indicated Martin was doing anything in the way of a crime. Have you seen pictures of Martin, his arms do not show any sign of weight lifting, which make it hard for me to believe Zimmerman and the head bashing and that is beside the medical reports. Zimmerman out side of shoting Martin has never made any indication of how he defended himself. No Martin DNA on gun or holster! As one lawyer put it "Zimmerman would not have left his truck if he didn't have the gun"

(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 327
RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 10/1/2012 8:29:20 AM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

You're tapdancing around the question. "Why would the DA call near midnight and interfere with an investigation?"




I've not seen anything sufficient to believe that happened. There were a lot of claims about the case in those early days that turned out to be outright fabrications.


I have seen you claim that it is a fabrication that the DA called and told tyhe cops to back off but I haven't seen you post a shred of evidence.


There were literally hundreds of reports that the police wanted to arrest Zimmerman and let the courts decide his innocence or guilt and the DA interfered.
(Had it played out this way, I don't think there would have been any controversy)
Post something to the contrary.

You keep saying that it never happened. prove it.


You're demanding I prove a negative. It doesn't work like that. You're making a positive assertion that on February 26th an affidavit was made that Serino didn't believe George but was called at midnight to not arrest him. I'm not seeing any evidence of that affidavit existing. What there *is* evidence of, is that they investigated the hell out of the case for some time after, and Serino telling both the media and the FBI that he did not feel there was sufficient evidence for an arrest. THAT *is* on the record.

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 328
RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 10/1/2012 8:32:48 AM   
tazzygirl


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Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

Holy shit! I'm desperate to get free so I push him to the side in PANIC!!


again.. try it. In that panic, as you push, you are pushing sideways.. he wont fall on his face.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 329
RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 10/1/2012 8:33:25 AM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro

Still does not justifiy murder.


If this was done in self defense, then it wasn't murder.

quote:

There is nothing I repeat NOTHING that indicated Martin was doing anything in the way of a crime.


Trayvon is not the one on trial.

quote:

Have you seen pictures of Martin, his arms do not show any sign of weight lifting, which make it hard for me to believe Zimmerman and the head bashing and that is beside the medical reports.


George's broken nose, 2 black eyes, 2 lacerations on the back of his head, and bruising/swelling on all sides of his head came from somewhere. Since Trayvon was the one George was pinned to the ground under while those injuries occurred, it's probable Trayvon caused them.

quote:

No Martin DNA on gun or holster!


1) Martin's DNA was only excluded from the grip. The rest of the grip and holster was inconclusive.
2) That's consistent with George's story, that the gun was in the holster until pulled as a last resort right before shooting.

< Message edited by Raiikun -- 10/1/2012 8:34:12 AM >

(in reply to Nosathro)
Profile   Post #: 330
RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 10/1/2012 8:34:50 AM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

Holy shit! I'm desperate to get free so I push him to the side in PANIC!!


again.. try it. In that panic, as you push, you are pushing sideways.. he wont fall on his face.



I see no reason to make that assumption.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 331
RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 10/1/2012 8:39:05 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		I didnt say make an assumption. I told you to try it yourself. Go ahead.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 332
RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 10/1/2012 8:45:09 AM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun


What there *is* evidence of, is that they investigated the hell out of the case for some time after, and Serino telling both the media and the FBI that he did not feel there was sufficient evidence for an arrest. THAT *is* on the record.

Then SHOW it instead of tapdancing.

It goes someting like this.

http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/03/29/report-police-initially-wanted-to-make-arrest-in-trayvon-martin-case/
http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/03/29/report-police-initially-wanted-to-make-arrest-in-trayvon-martin-case/
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2121352/Trayvon-Martin-case-Detective-wanted-arrest-Zimmerman-manslaughter.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2121352/Trayvon-Martin-case-Detective-wanted-arrest-Zimmerman-manslaughter.html
http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-martin-investigator-wanted-charge-george-zimmerman-manslaughter/story?id=16011674
http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/03/27/453123/lead-investigator-wanted-to-arrest-and-charge-zimmerman/?mobile=nc


There were approximately 144,000,000 results I dont think you want them all. LOL.

The bottom line that noone has explained why did the DA make a call at midnight? There had to be some motivation somewhere? this call is the cause of the ffoofraw. If Zim had been charged, the courts would have decided, not some pro or anti Zim lynch mob, and there would be little or no controversy about the whole thing.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 333
RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 10/1/2012 8:46:04 AM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

I didnt say make an assumption. I told you to try it yourself. Go ahead.


The act of trying it involves several assumptions. Some of which would make it likely you'd flip him over; others not so much.

For starters: How long was Trayvon sitting up before he fell? Did George wait until he had finished falling before getting out from under him?

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 334
RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 10/1/2012 8:49:04 AM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun


What there *is* evidence of, is that they investigated the hell out of the case for some time after, and Serino telling both the media and the FBI that he did not feel there was sufficient evidence for an arrest. THAT *is* on the record.

Then SHOW it instead of tapdancing.

It goes someting like this.

http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/03/29/report-police-initially-wanted-to-make-arrest-in-trayvon-martin-case/
http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/03/29/report-police-initially-wanted-to-make-arrest-in-trayvon-martin-case/
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2121352/Trayvon-Martin-case-Detective-wanted-arrest-Zimmerman-manslaughter.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2121352/Trayvon-Martin-case-Detective-wanted-arrest-Zimmerman-manslaughter.html
http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-martin-investigator-wanted-charge-george-zimmerman-manslaughter/story?id=16011674
http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/03/27/453123/lead-investigator-wanted-to-arrest-and-charge-zimmerman/?mobile=nc


There were approximately 144,000,000 results I dont think you want them all. LOL.

The bottom line that noone has explained why did the DA make a call at midnight? There had to be some motivation somewhere? this call is the cause of the ffoofraw. If Zim had been charged, the courts would have decided, not some pro or anti Zim lynch mob, and there would be little or no controversy about the whole thing.


Those links give the same tired old info of an affidavit that has no record of existing, and a capias request made March 12th, the same week that Serino told the media that there's no evidence to refute George's story.

And stating what evidence exists is not "tapdancing" by any stretch of the word.

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 335
RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 10/1/2012 8:53:30 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

I didnt say make an assumption. I told you to try it yourself. Go ahead.


The act of trying it involves several assumptions. Some of which would make it likely you'd flip him over; others not so much.

For starters: How long was Trayvon sitting up before he fell? Did George wait until he had finished falling before getting out from under him?


even if he waited for him to fall, the outcome would not change.

If he fell forwards, the hands would not have been underneath him had Zimmerman wiggled out.

If he had fallen sideways, his body weight would have been a side ways then tipping motion from a higher position to the ground.

Face down, hands under him, is impossible.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 336
RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 10/1/2012 8:56:36 AM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

If he fell forwards, the hands would not have been underneath him had Zimmerman wiggled out.


His hands weren't underneath him after the shooting according to W6. The one individual who reported his hands being underneath him came later, and couldn't even accurately describe what Martin was wearing.

W6, however, said after the shooting Martin's hands were to his sides, and drew a picture depicting such.

< Message edited by Raiikun -- 10/1/2012 8:57:40 AM >

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 337
RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 10/1/2012 9:28:52 AM   
Nosathro


Posts: 3319
Joined: 9/25/2005
From: Orange County, California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

If he fell forwards, the hands would not have been underneath him had Zimmerman wiggled out.


His hands weren't underneath him after the shooting according to W6. The one individual who reported his hands being underneath him came later, and couldn't even accurately describe what Martin was wearing.

W6, however, said after the shooting Martin's hands were to his sides, and drew a picture depicting such.


And W6 changed his story....

(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 338
RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 10/1/2012 9:29:28 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
All speculative on my part but based on what George said.


Seeing as George Zimmerman has no credibility, why would you give any credit to what George Zimmerman claims?

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 339
RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 10/1/2012 9:36:23 AM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro


quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

If he fell forwards, the hands would not have been underneath him had Zimmerman wiggled out.


His hands weren't underneath him after the shooting according to W6. The one individual who reported his hands being underneath him came later, and couldn't even accurately describe what Martin was wearing.

W6, however, said after the shooting Martin's hands were to his sides, and drew a picture depicting such.


And W6 changed his story....


W6 has never changed his testimony that Martin was on top.

(in reply to Nosathro)
Profile   Post #: 340
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