RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case (Full Version)

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mnottertail -> RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case (10/2/2012 1:25:36 PM)

Jesus, how far did you complete English comprehension?

What is the case for George Zimmerman except his account of events and his character?

The defense has opened it, by their evidence.  




Raiikun -> RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case (10/2/2012 1:30:12 PM)

This thread is quickly on it's way to getting closed it seems.

quote:

The defense has opened it, by their evidence.


No, they haven't. The trial hasn't even started yet, so the Defense has not had the opportunity to introduce evidence as to George's honesty. It's not likely that they will; it just doesn't work that way.

If the Defense calls witnesses to talk about how honest George is, then the State can introduce evidence to rebut that. If the Defense doesn't bring in character evidence to prop up that specific trait, the State can't admit any negative character evidence on that trait.






mnottertail -> RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case (10/2/2012 1:30:40 PM)

Evidence of a person’s character or a trait of character is inadmissible to prove action in conformity with it on a particular occasion"

- Florida law

Show me that law in those words in the statute. 



Raiikun -> RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case (10/2/2012 1:33:02 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Evidence of a person’s character or a trait of character is inadmissible to prove action in conformity with it on a particular occasion"

- Florida law

Show me that law in those words in the statute. 



It's the first line of the statute I quoted.



mnottertail -> RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case (10/2/2012 1:35:08 PM)

nope, that is an inaccurate quote.



Raiikun -> RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case (10/2/2012 1:39:13 PM)

By that logic, a quote from a book is inaccurate unless you quote the entire book.



tazzygirl -> RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case (10/2/2012 1:46:22 PM)

quote:

(2) OTHER CRIMES, WRONGS, OR ACTS.—
(a) Similar fact evidence of other crimes, wrongs, or acts is admissible when relevant to prove a material fact in issue, including, but not limited to, proof of motive, opportunity, intent, preparation, plan, knowledge, identity, or absence of mistake or accident, but it is inadmissible when the evidence is relevant solely to prove bad character or propensity.


I think his character will be used to provide many things.

Btw, when asked for the source... try a link

http://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2012/90.404



Raiikun -> RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case (10/2/2012 1:48:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

(2) OTHER CRIMES, WRONGS, OR ACTS.—
(a) Similar fact evidence of other crimes, wrongs, or acts is admissible when relevant to prove a material fact in issue, including, but not limited to, proof of motive, opportunity, intent, preparation, plan, knowledge, identity, or absence of mistake or accident, but it is inadmissible when the evidence is relevant solely to prove bad character or propensity.


I think his character will be used to provide many things.

Btw, when asked for the source... try a link

http://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2012/90.404


The part you bolded is limited to material facts in regards to the event of that night though. Not what happened at the bond hearing, which is what we were discussing.

(And I didn't have a link handy, but I gave the source which met any obligation I felt I had.)



tazzygirl -> RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case (10/2/2012 1:54:35 PM)

And the minute the defense brings up any proof of his good character, which they will have to do, they have opened the door to the bond hearing.



tazzygirl -> RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case (10/2/2012 1:56:12 PM)

quote:

And I didn't have a link handy, but I gave the source which met any obligation I felt I had.


Why didnt you? You didnt pull that from your head, you copied it from a source.



mnottertail -> RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case (10/2/2012 1:57:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun

By that logic, a quote from a book is inaccurate unless you quote the entire book.


You have just said and only said:

A quote from a book is inaccurate unless you quote from the entire book.


that is not correct.




Raiikun -> RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case (10/2/2012 2:01:18 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

And the minute the defense brings up any proof of his good character, which they will have to do, they have opened the door to the bond hearing.


It doesn't work that way.

1) The State is only allowed to rebut the specific trait opened by the Defense. If the Defense shows evidence of George's tolerance of race (the kids he mentored, Sherman Ware, the FBI reports), the State is only allowed to rebut that specific trait.
2) George's testimony at the Bond hearing was limited to one thing: An apology. There's not likely to be anything there that has any relevance at trial.



mnottertail -> RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case (10/2/2012 2:11:59 PM)

Except by the prosecution to rebut the trait.


Florida Law.    




tazzygirl -> RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case (10/2/2012 2:12:22 PM)

SANFORD, Fla. — The credibility of Trayvon Martin’s shooter could be an issue at trial after a judge said that George Zimmerman and his wife lied to the court about their finances to obtain a bond, legal experts say.

That’s because the case hinges on jurors believing his account of what happened the night the 19-year-old was killed.

The questioning of Zimmerman’s truthfulness by the judge on Friday could undermine the defendant’s credibility if it is brought up at trial. It also may complicate how his defense presents him as a witness, said Orlando-area attorney Randy McCLean, who is a former prosecutor.



“The other key witness, unfortunately is deceased,” McClean said. “Basically, Zimmerman is going to be asking the jury to believe his version of the facts ... As the case stands now, his credibility is absolutely critical to the case.”

..........

Both McClean and Hill said O’Mara would be able to challenge the admissibility of the bond revocation at trial by questioning its relevance.

http://articles.nydailynews.com/2012-06-02/news/31989832_1_prosecutor-bernie-de-la-bond-revocation-credibility

All depends on how the Judge rules.



mnottertail -> RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case (10/2/2012 2:27:53 PM)

And the prosecution will have a pretty solid arguement for relevance.  We will see what the judge says.



Raiikun -> RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case (10/2/2012 2:32:59 PM)

And that will be a cakewalk for O'Mara to keep inadmissible. Mainly because George said and did absolutely nothing in regards to that matter at the bond hearing.

And with the jailhouse calls coming out since then, we've found out that George did in fact tell O'Mara about the money before the bond hearing, that he tried to transfer (IIRC) 30k but it was blocked because of the paypal limit, and that O'Mara told him that the money didn't matter because the defense cost would still be much higher than that and that he was still going to apply for indigence.

Then the following week, George voluntarily turns the entire amount over at the earliest opportunity. There's very compelling evidence that came out after that bond hearing that it really was a mis-communication between George and his attorney.

So we're back to there being absolutely nothing at that bond hearing which can be used as character evidence toward George's honesty...and that "proof" of George lying there simply is non-existent.



mnottertail -> RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case (10/2/2012 2:40:59 PM)

His lawyer did in his behalf on information obtained by him for his defense and it was part of an affidavit, so, the lawyer is lying or was given a knowing lie to run thru the court.  No cakewalk whatsoever.

And the judge sorta figured it was attributable to Zimmerman, note the million dollar bail and castigation.



Raiikun -> RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case (10/2/2012 2:48:02 PM)

Sunday 4/8 GZ Defense fund (Pay Pal) running
Monday 4/9 Corey Cancels Grand Jury
Tuesday 4/10 Zimm laywers quit, GZ Defense Fund all over news
Wednesday 4/11 George arrested. O’Mara officially hired
Thursday 4/12 first court appearance before Recksiedler
Friday 4/13 Recksiedler announces conflict, advises council for recusal request
Saturday 4/14 George Tells buddy about conversation with O’mara regarding defense fund, that George tried to transfer 37k to O'Mara, and O'Mara says the money doesn't matter.
.
.
Tuesday 4/17 O’Mara requests Recksiedler recusal
Wednesday 4/18 Recksiedler steps asside and Lester takes over
.
Friday 4/20 First bond hearing
Following week, once George is out of jail, George turns over all the money to O'Mara, and O'Mara brings it to court's attention.


It's not gonna come up at trial.



Raiikun -> RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case (10/2/2012 2:49:07 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

And the judge sorta figured it was attributable to Zimmerman, note the million dollar bail and castigation.



And note the judge getting kicked off the case as a result.



mnottertail -> RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case (10/2/2012 2:49:24 PM)

LOL, unlikely scenario.



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