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RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 10/4/2012 1:46:01 PM   
mnottertail


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

There are certain mechanical body requirements and realities.


And they are 100% consistent with George's claim, with the currently known evidence.


They are consistent with a claim, but not with physical-martial reality.

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(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 561
RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 10/4/2012 3:26:26 PM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Which, of course, you'd have to believe that Trayvon Martin attacked George Zimmerman without provocation, which of course is laughable.



So what was the provocation for this then?

Kid sucker punching bus driver

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 562
RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 10/4/2012 3:34:54 PM   
Nosathro


Posts: 3319
Joined: 9/25/2005
From: Orange County, California
Status: offline 		Oh by the way that video of Raiikun is NOT Martin, it was filmed in Kansas.

(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 563
RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 10/4/2012 3:38:26 PM   
Raiikun


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro

Oh by the way that video of Raiikun is NOT Martin, it was filmed in Kansas.


I didn't say it was.

(in reply to Nosathro)
Profile   Post #: 564
RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 10/4/2012 4:06:10 PM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun
So what was the provocation for this then?

Kid sucker punching bus driver

That was an animal attacking a human being. I do hope that the females over there recognize that he is an animal and choose to not have him father their children.

(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 565
RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 10/4/2012 4:45:34 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun


quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle
how exactly is he going to be doing these three things simultaneously.


He never said it was simultaneous. We know the ordeal lasted at least 40 seconds, during which there was plenty of time for George's head to be smacked on the ground at some point, for Trayvon to cover his nose and mouth at some point, etc.


He had a broken nose, then his mouth and nose covered? Man, that had to be some intense pain.

All you ladies and gents who are casting doubt on the logistics . . . what is your alternative theory? Martin stood up and George jumped up and killed him? What are you sayin?


You start with the knowledge that George Zimmerman lies often enough to get into trouble with his own lawyers and the court. Starting from there, you examine George Zimmerman's claims that he was attacked without provocation. Since the only person suggesting that to be the case is a known liar, George Zimmerman, we move on to the hypothesis that George Zimmerman, in fact, provoked the entire incident, perhaps by attempting to unlawfully detain Trayvon Martin at gunpoint. Which is a lot more likely than the fairy-tales Zimmerman's been telling.

Credibility. It counts.

< Message edited by farglebargle -- 10/4/2012 4:46:48 PM >

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ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 10/4/2012 4:57:07 PM   
Raiikun


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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle


You start with the knowledge that George Zimmerman lies often enough to get into trouble with his own lawyers and the court.





You start with the fact that this lie doesn't exist and...ooops, the rest falls apart.

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 567
RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 10/4/2012 4:58:26 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		A lie by omission is still a lie.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
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Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 568
RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 10/4/2012 5:00:00 PM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

A lie by omission is still a lie.


He didn't even testify on the subject to give a lie by omission.

And after listening to jailcall 30 where George talks about telling O'Mara about the money before the bond hearing...there's zero proof that there was any intent to deceive the court.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 569
RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 10/4/2012 5:04:26 PM   
Rule


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Joined: 12/5/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle
You start with the knowledge that George Zimmerman lies often enough to get into trouble with his own lawyers and the court.

I never took into consideration anything that Zimmerman said when I made my judgment that he acted in self-defence. I suggest that you do the same.

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 570
RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 10/4/2012 5:08:28 PM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle
You start with the knowledge that George Zimmerman lies often enough to get into trouble with his own lawyers and the court.

I never took into consideration anything that Zimmerman said when I made my judgment that he acted in self-defence. I suggest that you do the same.



Pretty much same here. My stance from the beginning has been that anyone in that situation would want to make themselves look in the best light, so I look at only statements that are corroborated by evidence. (Which is a higher standard than in Florida; which is pretty explicit that if the evidence doesn't outright prove the defense's theory to be impossible the defendant must be acquitted no matter how guilty the evidence makes him look).

Witnesses say the fight took place where George said it did; he had the broken nose, black eyes, swelling on all sides of the head, lacerations, etc; the fight moved south from where it started like George said it did; George says someone came out of a house and he screamed at him for help; that witness corroborates that...

...and there's still no evidence to prove George wrong.

(in reply to Rule)
Profile   Post #: 571
RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 10/4/2012 5:11:17 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		A lie by omission is still a lie.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 572
RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 10/4/2012 5:12:38 PM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

A lie by omission is still a lie.


He didn't even testify on the subject to give a lie by omission.

< Message edited by Raiikun -- 10/4/2012 5:13:01 PM >

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 573
RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 10/4/2012 5:15:56 PM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline 		And the evidence shows that this was a misunderstanding between George and O'Mara. A misunderstanding that once figured out, was responded with: George surrendering all of the money voluntarily and O'Mara bringing it to the court's attention right away.

(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 574
RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 10/4/2012 5:18:43 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

A lie by omission is still a lie.


He didn't even testify on the subject to give a lie by omission.



Dude, thats the omission part. He sat there and listened while everyone else lied.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 575
RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 10/4/2012 5:24:56 PM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

A lie by omission is still a lie.


He didn't even testify on the subject to give a lie by omission.



Dude, thats the omission part. He sat there and listened while everyone else lied.


Dude, that's the misunderstanding part. It's normal for defendants to be instructed to remain silent and still, not react, etc. And again, there's the evidence that George tried to transfer money to O'Mara and told O'Mara about it, and O'Mara told him that the money didn't matter, since George would be unable to work or support himself or his family, etc, and that he'd file for indigence anyways.

A lie is an intent to deceive. This looks like a misunderstanding. George tells O'Mara about money beforehand. O'Mara misunderstands George and says it doesn't matter. George thus thinks the bond hearing was all done how O'Mara intended. George gets out of jail and asks O'Mara what he should do with the money the following week. O'Mara says he needs to turn it all in, George does so, and O'Mara informs the court.

Yeah, such devious trickers George and O'Mara are...to lie to hide the money and then tell the court about it!

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 576
RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 10/4/2012 5:35:53 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		According to the transcripts with the wife, there was no "misunderstanding".. and George sat there and listened as she lied to the court. All the tapes reveal is that O'Mara may have known about the 37K attempt to transfer funds... Zimmerman says on the call that he didnt know about the rest.

A legal defense fund is just that. Why would O'Mara have reason to believe more than 37K was in there?

Why would O'Mara believe the wife had already transferred out more?

George told the Lawyer he couldnt get the 37.. did He tell his lawyer he got other transfers?

quote:

Records show that in the days before an April bond hearing for her husband, Shellie Zimmerman, 25, transferred $74,000 in eight smaller amounts ranging from $7,500 to $9,990, from her husband's credit union account to hers, according to an arrest affidavit. It also shows that $47,000 was transferred from George Zimmerman's account to his sister's in the days before the bond hearing.


The "misunderstanding" was not on George's part... he knew good and well how much money was in there and that he was no indigent according to the questions asked of his wife.

A lie by omission is still a lie.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 577
RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 10/4/2012 5:37:03 PM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline 		No proof of a lie by omission even, as pointed out. Feigning attempts at mind reading does not make a convincing argument otherwise.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 578
RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 10/4/2012 5:47:19 PM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline 		And here is a lengthy essay about the subject, that originally I thought was stretching at some points, until it became public that George did try and transfer 37k to O'Mara and was told not to worry about the website funds. (This article was written prior to those jail calls being made public.

< Message edited by Raiikun -- 10/4/2012 5:48:04 PM >

(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 579
RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 10/4/2012 6:07:11 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		George knew O'Mara didnt know about the rest... he admitted as much. 37K for someone who isnt working going into a fund is a whole lot different than 200K.

For George's sake, he needs to stick with just the Judge at trial.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 580
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