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RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 10/9/2012 5:21:05 AM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro

"Zimmerman claim", no medical proof Zimmerman injuries were caused by Martin, or even a result of a fight or any witnesses seeing the fight.



1) The burden of proof is not on the Defense.
2) It doesn't take a leap of logic to conclude that Martin caused Zimmerman's injuries. They were in a fight. Zimmerman got his injuries during that fight. Martin was on top of Zimmerman as he was taking those injuries.
3) Even the State prosecutor has acknowledged that Trayvon hit Zimmerman. So you're arguing something that will never see a courtroom.

(in reply to Nosathro)
Profile   Post #: 901
RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 10/9/2012 5:40:34 AM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun
3) Even the State prosecutor has acknowledged that Trayvon hit Zimmerman. So you're arguing something that will never see a courtroom.

I suspect that a lot of the people who think that Martin was a good kid got deluded by the concept "Innocent kid goes to store to buy candy and gets shot dead".

Instead what occurred here in fact was this: "Evil, tall thug goes to store to buy candy and gets shot dead when he attacks a shorter upright citizen".

(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 902
RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 10/9/2012 7:23:19 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro

"Zimmerman claim", no medical proof Zimmerman injuries were caused by Martin, or even a result of a fight or any witnesses seeing the fight.



1) The burden of proof is not on the Defense.
2) It doesn't take a leap of logic to conclude that Martin caused Zimmerman's injuries. They were in a fight. Zimmerman got his injuries during that fight. Martin was on top of Zimmerman as he was taking those injuries.
3) Even the State prosecutor has acknowledged that Trayvon hit Zimmerman. So you're arguing something that will never see a courtroom.



It doesn't take a leap of logic to conclude that Zimmerman tried to detain Martin at gunpoint without legal authority. Otherwise why would they have been in a fight?

Zimmerman was the one who expressed frustration at 'them' always getting away JUST BEFORE killing Trayvon Martin?

Well George Zimmerman made SURE that Trayvon Martin didn't get away, didn't he?



< Message edited by farglebargle -- 10/9/2012 7:24:31 AM >

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 903
RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 10/9/2012 7:32:59 AM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

It doesn't take a leap of logic to conclude that Zimmerman tried to detain Martin at gunpoint without legal authority. Otherwise why would they have been in a fight?



Pure speculation without any evidence is not sufficient for much.


(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 904
RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 10/9/2012 7:41:10 AM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle
It doesn't take a leap of logic to conclude that Zimmerman tried to detain Martin at gunpoint without legal authority. Otherwise why would they have been in a fight?

They were in a fight because Martin ambushed and attacked Zimmerman.

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle
Zimmerman was the one who expressed frustration at 'them' always getting away JUST BEFORE killing Trayvon Martin?

So what? Lots of people get frustrated when they step in dog poop. It does not cause them to want to kill the dog or its owner.

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle
Well George Zimmerman made SURE that Trayvon Martin didn't get away, didn't he?

Martin sure did not get away. And that in my opinion was a good thing, for now he won't ever mug my geriatric mom, nor anyone else.

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 905
RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 10/9/2012 7:57:18 AM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline
quote:

Zimmerman was the one who expressed frustration at 'them' always getting away JUST BEFORE killing Trayvon Martin?

Soooooo . . . now 'them' is a racial dog whistle?

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 906
RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 10/9/2012 7:59:33 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Considering the reason for Zimmerman's suspicion was the recent "wave" of break in's and thefts by young black youths.....

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 907
RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 10/9/2012 8:02:47 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

Martin sure did not get away. And that in my opinion was a good thing, for now he won't ever mug my geriatric mom, nor anyone else.


wow, considering Martin has never even been accused of mugging anyone, let alone convicted, thats a pretty telling statement there.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Rule)
Profile   Post #: 908
RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 10/9/2012 8:17:18 AM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Considering the reason for Zimmerman's suspicion was the recent "wave" of break in's and thefts by young black youths.....

Depends on whether you lay emphasis on the break ins or black youths. I would not deny, given the history of the place, that Z was racial profiling. But, does that make him a racist? Or could the 'them' have simply referred to suspected burglars? Tiz the conundrum similar to being suspicious of middle eastern men at airport check points, I think.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 909
RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 10/9/2012 8:22:12 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		I have said he wasnt a racist. Just pointing out how people could come to that conclusion. I do believe race had everything to do with Z following Martin, neglecting his own safety and ignoring his own admittance of fear.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 910
RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 10/9/2012 9:24:21 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		Whether or not George Zimmerman was profiling anyone or is a racist it irrelevant to the issue at hand, which is, is there any reasonable doubt to they hypothesis that George Zimmerman provoked Trayvon Martin to defend himself? Examining Trayvon Martin's potential motives says 'no', while a critical examination of George Zimmerman's behaviour certainly supports the notion that he let his temper override his good judgement and given the circumstance, I don't doubt that he provoked the incident by unlawfully trying to detain Trayvon Martin.

JUST like I tell my daughters, "If you're kidnapped, your best strategy is to try to escape as soon as possible, maiming or killing your attackers if necessary..."

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 911
RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 10/9/2012 9:35:27 AM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle
is there any reasonable doubt to they hypothesis that George Zimmerman provoked Trayvon Martin to defend himself?


Tons of it, starting with the complete lack of evidence of such.

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 912
RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 10/9/2012 9:42:04 AM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle
is there any reasonable doubt to the hypothesis that George Zimmerman provoked Trayvon Martin to defend himself?

You are fantasizing again.

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle
Examining Trayvon Martin's potential motives says 'no'

Did you ever consider that Martin must be a savage animal out to mug those whom he considered prey?

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle
a critical examination of George Zimmerman's behaviour certainly supports the notion that he let his temper override his good judgement

People who live with Vincent's elves in fantasy land have no notion of the concept of being critical. The only way for them to acquire a glimmer of what it means, is if they gift a friend with a puppy and the friend names the puppy Critical and grows the puppy into a mature dog and the dog next bites the gifter in the ass.


quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle
given the circumstance, I don't doubt that he provoked the incident by unlawfully trying to detain Trayvon Martin.

It is your privilege not to doubt. Well done. However. it does not mean that you are right in not doubting.

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle
JUST like I tell my daughters, "If you're kidnapped, your best strategy is to try to escape as soon as possible, maiming or killing your attackers if necessary..."

That is good advice. And remember that kidnappers will take their victims from the place of attack to a more quiet kill zone. Never let them take you away from the place of attack.

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 913
RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 10/9/2012 10:03:11 AM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

I have said he wasnt a racist. Just pointing out how people could come to that conclusion. I do believe race had everything to do with Z following Martin, neglecting his own safety and ignoring his own admittance of fear.

Okay. I haven't read every post so sorry if I misunderstood.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 914
RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 10/9/2012 10:30:03 AM   
RacerJim


Posts: 1583
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

JUST like I tell my daughters, "If you're kidnapped, your best strategy is to try to escape as soon as possible, maiming or killing your attackers if necessary..."

Too bad Travon's father didn't tell him that, or Travon ignored his father's advice.
According to the evidence, Travon escaped from Zimmerman's sight but instead of going to his father's condo after escaping he circled back and confronted Zimmerman.

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 915
RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 10/9/2012 11:03:20 AM   
DomYngBlk


Posts: 3316
Joined: 3/27/2006
Status: offline 		Bullshit

(in reply to RacerJim)
Profile   Post #: 916
RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 10/9/2012 11:14:29 AM   
Nosathro


Posts: 3319
Joined: 9/25/2005
From: Orange County, California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro

"Zimmerman claim", no medical proof Zimmerman injuries were caused by Martin, or even a result of a fight or any witnesses seeing the fight.



1) The burden of proof is not on the Defense.
2) It doesn't take a leap of logic to conclude that Martin caused Zimmerman's injuries. They were in a fight. Zimmerman got his injuries during that fight. Martin was on top of Zimmerman as he was taking those injuries.
3) Even the State prosecutor has acknowledged that Trayvon hit Zimmerman. So you're arguing something that will never see a courtroom.


O,Mara is taking the "Stand Your Ground" there will be a hearing which mean Zimmerman would have to prove his case, even testify. Even if it went "self defense" the defense would have prove the claim.

(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 917
RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 10/9/2012 11:19:21 AM   
Nosathro


Posts: 3319
Joined: 9/25/2005
From: Orange County, California
Status: offline

[/quote]
Did you ever consider that Martin must be a savage animal out to mug those whom he considered prey?

Again no criminal record of any kind on Martin, lot's on Zimmerman...which so people here ignore. Your remark on Martin is very distasteful to say the least also does sound racists.


(in reply to Rule)
Profile   Post #: 918
RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 10/9/2012 11:21:46 AM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline 		Not sure how never being convicted of anything = "Lots of criminal record"

(in reply to Nosathro)
Profile   Post #: 919
RE: Update on Trayvon Martin case - 10/9/2012 11:24:41 AM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline
quote:

O,Mara is taking the "Stand Your Ground" there will be a hearing which mean Zimmerman would have to prove his case, even testify. Even if it went "self defense" the defense would have prove the claim.

Not sure that Z would have to testify. The Defense could call on the police record of his statements the night of the incident.
When does the Defendant ever have to prove anything in American Criminal Law?

(in reply to Nosathro)
Profile   Post #: 920
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