RE: Is sexual denial a barrier to intimacy?

RE: Is sexual denial a barrier to intimacy? (Full Version)

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littlewonder -> RE: Is sexual denial a barrier to intimacy? (9/23/2012 8:41:24 PM)
<grumbles about sexual denial> Master likes to play a little game called Defcon. Basically I am denied orgasms for months on end all the while he teases me, brings me to the brink of orgasm time and time and time again, only to deny me completely until he decides he wants to allow me an orgasm. He is currently playing this game now. [>:] And he's done it before. Yeah it's frustrating and I don't get to orgasm but that does not mean we are not intimate. Actually we have more intimacy now than when he does not play defcon. As he likes to say "denial can be sadistic" and one can "kill one with kindness". [:'(]

Aswad -> RE: Is sexual denial a barrier to intimacy? (9/23/2012 8:42:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CougarRick My god, there's a science behind all this? Science is a methodology, no more, no less. And a subset of rational methodology, at that. You can apply reason to just about anything, which I try to make a habit of. IWYW, — Aswad.

Alecta -> RE: Is sexual denial a barrier to intimacy? (9/23/2012 11:22:29 PM)
Penetrative sex for the woman does not have to be confined to the man's penis. Use of the man's penis does not have to equate to him enjoying it either. Denying sexual satisfaction or enjoyment to the man does not have to mean no penetrative sex to the woman. It's also a misconception that lesbians have no penetrative sex. There are lesbians who do not engage in or enjoy penetration, sure. But most of us who have no such issues have pretty extensive toy collections.

Rochsub2009 -> RE: Is sexual denial a barrier to intimacy? (9/24/2012 7:34:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: subartist Do you think that sexual denial and chastity is an impossible barrier to intimacy? Not necessarily. quote: I want a long term relationship that is intimate and real, but I also long to be denied, and cuckolded. This is where it becomes complex. Cuckolding creates it's own list of potential problems. Fantasizing about your wife having sex with another man is a very different thing than having your wife ACTUALLY have sex with another man. What if that other man fucks her better than you ever could? Be careful of what you wish for, because you may actually get it. Also, I always ask men who ASK to be cucked, "what's in it for the woman?" If someone else is fucking her, then what purpose do you serve? Why wouldn't she just choose to be in a relationship with the man who fulfills her sexual needs, and leave you out of the picture completely? Similarly, chastity brings a different set of challenges. In my experience, most of the Dommes who have placed me in chastity soon found themselves ripping off the chastity device. They discovered that they were punishing themselves more than they were punishing me, and so they removed the device and ravaged me sexually. You see, despite the rumors that women are sweet little creatures who have little/no desire for sex, the reality is that most women like to be fucked. ;-) If the woman initiates the chastity, then that's fine. But on most occasions, it seems to be the male who is suggesting the chastity. So even though he wants to be denied sex, it's still all about HIS DICK. Many men miss this subtle distinction, and think that they are making a sacrifice when they ask for chastity. But how can it be a sacrifice when you are the one who desired/requested it? Do you see how sometimes denial can actually be a selfish act? More importantly, just like in the case with cuckolding, why does a woman need you if she can't fuck you? Why wouldn't she just find a man with whom she has a good personal connection AND he fucks her well? Do you see how in both the cases of cuckolding and chastity you can seem selfish to a woman? Neither situation fully recognizes HER needs in the relationship. In both cases, it's all about you and your dick. The key is to find a woman who wants the same things that you do. But that can be difficult for the reasons that I stated above. Good luck in your search.

NiceButMeanGirl -> RE: Is sexual denial a barrier to intimacy? (9/24/2012 9:51:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess quote: ORIGINAL: NiceButMeanGirl It's true that a person can be a lot of intimacy without penetrative sex. Even though I missed the penetrative sex, I used to be in a very intimate relationship w/ a guy who had ED. When the relationship ended, it had nothing at all to do with his ED, the problems were totally unrelated to that. I just can't see purposely denying myself something that is so available by keeping him in chastity. NBMG Was penetrative sex part of your relationship before the ED issues, or did you have this relationship without any penetrative sex throughout the relationship? I would have thought the intimacy developed in the early part of the relationship when you were having penetrative sex, and that this intimacy that you developed then sustained you through the time when he had ED. But if you are saying that you had no penetrative sex at any time in this relationship, I would find that quite interesting. There was no penetrative sex except for one time. He managed to get it in there for a few seconds once and then it deflated. No matter what he & I did, it just never managed to happen again. quote: ORIGINAL: Alecta Penetrative sex for the woman does not have to be confined to the man's penis. True. I just happen to prefer it with his penis rather than a toy. I've never found a toy that feels quite like the real thing. NBMG

NiceButMeanGirl -> RE: Is sexual denial a barrier to intimacy? (9/24/2012 9:52:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rochsub2009 If the woman initiates the chastity, then that's fine. But on most occasions, it seems to be the male who is suggesting the chastity. So even though he wants to be denied sex, it's still all about HIS DICK. Many men miss this subtle distinction, and think that they are making a sacrifice when they ask for chastity. But how can it be a sacrifice when you are the one who desired/requested it? Do you see how sometimes denial can actually be a selfish act? QFT

SpyUnderCover -> RE: Is sexual denial a barrier to intimacy? (9/24/2012 10:21:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rochsub2009 Also, I always ask men who ASK to be cucked, "what's in it for the woman?" If someone else is fucking her, then what purpose do you serve? Why wouldn't she just choose to be in a relationship with the man who fulfills her sexual needs, and leave you out of the picture completely? Similarly, chastity brings a different set of challenges. <snip> You see, despite the rumors that women are sweet little creatures who have little/no desire for sex, the reality is that most women like to be fucked. ;-) If the woman initiates the chastity, then that's fine. But on most occasions, it seems to be the male who is suggesting the chastity. So even though he wants to be denied sex, it's still all about HIS DICK. Many men miss this subtle distinction, and think that they are making a sacrifice when they ask for chastity. But how can it be a sacrifice when you are the one who desired/requested it? Do you see how sometimes denial can actually be a selfish act? More importantly, just like in the case with cuckolding, why does a woman need you if she can't fuck you? Why wouldn't she just find a man with whom she has a good personal connection AND he fucks her well? Do you see how in both the cases of cuckolding and chastity you can seem selfish to a woman? Neither situation fully recognizes HER needs in the relationship. In both cases, it's all about you and your dick. Very well said, Rochsub. OP, you said, "I think that when I talk about sexual denial most women are turned off, and interpret this as no intimacy." I suspect that a lot of the women are turned off simply because sex -- including intercourse -- is an enjoyable, desirable activity. It seems some submissive males believe that a dominant woman shouldn't like or want sex (intercourse), or that if she "allows" the sub to have sex with her, she's somehow "submitting" or catering to his needs. As so many women have already pointed out here, many of us relish penetrative sex (including ejaculation) and don't want to do without. Spy

DNAHelicase -> RE: Is sexual denial a barrier to intimacy? (9/24/2012 10:49:06 AM)
I seem to be the odd woman out on this issue, but I actually prefer no sex in my extramarital relationships. If the man wants to be in chastity, I might oblige so long as he doesn't pester the crap out of me about A) being put in chastity in the first place and B) the state of his penis once it's in chastity (which in either case might lead to a serious and not fun discussion between us). However, if he wants to masturbate on his own time or have sex with another partner, I don't particularly care so long as he isn't doing things that put my well-being at risk when I scene with him. My husband and I were once-in-a-while swingers for a few years. I do not equate sex with intimacy AT ALL. It's something fun to do when I'm in the mood, which is rarely the past couple of years. If I do want sex, my husband is happy to oblige. I have absolutely no need for a horny "sub" who thinks that I'm going to be some porn star spanking his butt a few times before fucking his brains out or sitting on his face for an hour. In fact, I dislike oral and fingering and most men think they're far better at sex than they actually are. I generally don't want to be touched much at any rate except for some cuddling at the end of scenes with certain people. I find engaging in scenes far more intimate and satisfying than sex almost always. I get better happy feelings after hurting somebody for a couple of hours than I do from sex most of the time--and sex with my husband is pretty fantastic, so that's not a negative critique of his skills. It's just that I get off on sadism more than I do on sex. In addition to that, when I've taken the 5 Love Languages tests in the past, I always score highest by far on acts of service. When people do things for me, like helping me with chores, or running an errand for me so that I don't have to do it, I feel all warm and fuzzy inside. THAT means far more to me than sex or a hug or a kiss (physical touch is the second lowest thing I score on, just before gifts). Spending quality time always ranks a close second on the tests for me--I love good conversations with people I care about, and I love being able to do things with them that interest us both. For example, taking a walk in a secluded forest together--seeing amazing insects and fungi and wildflowers, seeing beautiful vistas, feeling the warm fall sun on our skin, enjoying the solitude and peacefulness together--that shared, special experience is also more intimate to me than sex.

fucktoyprincess -> RE: Is sexual denial a barrier to intimacy? (9/24/2012 12:30:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NiceButMeanGirl quote: ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess quote: ORIGINAL: NiceButMeanGirl It's true that a person can be a lot of intimacy without penetrative sex. Even though I missed the penetrative sex, I used to be in a very intimate relationship w/ a guy who had ED. When the relationship ended, it had nothing at all to do with his ED, the problems were totally unrelated to that. I just can't see purposely denying myself something that is so available by keeping him in chastity. NBMG Was penetrative sex part of your relationship before the ED issues, or did you have this relationship without any penetrative sex throughout the relationship? I would have thought the intimacy developed in the early part of the relationship when you were having penetrative sex, and that this intimacy that you developed then sustained you through the time when he had ED. But if you are saying that you had no penetrative sex at any time in this relationship, I would find that quite interesting. There was no penetrative sex except for one time. He managed to get it in there for a few seconds once and then it deflated. No matter what he & I did, it just never managed to happen again. NBMG This is so interesting. Okay, I will have to revise my earlier thinking out loud. Obviously intimacy is possible even without penetrative sex. It all depends on circumstances, I think. I'm with you on toys not being quite the same....[sm=2cents.gif]

CougarRick -> RE: Is sexual denial a barrier to intimacy? (9/25/2012 7:37:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aswad Science is a methodology, no more, no less. And a subset of rational methodology, at that. You can apply reason to just about anything, which I try to make a habit of. Now I actually have to think when I do that? It's gonna be a first.

Toysinbabeland -> RE: Is sexual denial a barrier to intimacy? (9/25/2012 7:39:39 AM)
The mind is intimate, but not physically

Aswad -> RE: Is sexual denial a barrier to intimacy? (9/25/2012 8:48:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CougarRick Now I actually have to think when I do that? It's gonna be a first. I think when I do just about anything. It stops hurting after a while. [:D] IWYW, — Aswad.

CougarRick -> RE: Is sexual denial a barrier to intimacy? (9/25/2012 9:49:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess I don't consider intimacy to be the same as "romantic love". So I agree with you that sex without love is not as gratifying as sex with love. I'm not sure I would say the same thing about intimacy. For me, sex, intimacy, and love are all separate constructs. In other words, I could have sex and be intimate with someone who I am not in love with (in fact, I have done that - I would put one of my long term play partners in that category). I'm still trying to think through how much intimacy one can build before sex. I think you can have intimacy before, but how much? I sort of feel that while some intimacy can develop before sex, very deep intimacy comes after having shared a sexual relationship. I would argue that you can be deeply romantically in love with someone you have never had sex with. Again, I feel love is a separate construct from intimacy. When I suggest that sex is usually there at the "start" of a relationship, I think "start" has to be defined loosely. In the sense that I'm not suggesting that sex occur on the first date. I was simply suggesting that I could not imagine someone going for years without sex being part of the equation. The "start" of a relationship usually has sex as an objective earlier in the overall time frame rather than later, so to speak. A couple who has been together for 10 years is unlikely to have waited 5 years to have sex, for example. Surely, it would typically happen much sooner than that. Very well put. I was over simplifying my position, and overlooked the distinction between intimacy and love. Anyway, yes I imagine being in a relationship for a prolonged period of time without sex would also be weird. You bring a point I hadn't considered though, that the closeness of a sexuial relationship can increase the intimacy while the two remain distinct from one another.

VioletViolence -> RE: Is sexual denial a barrier to intimacy? (9/25/2012 11:03:30 AM)
I myself have a curiosity about chastity because I have a huge kink for orgasm control. My only problem is 90% of the men who are interested in chastity want to be kept locked up long term and are often quite small in the peen department. The only way around that is to have other lovers, which I'm really not all that interested in. I want him locked up because it's a reminder that it's mine to use when and how I wish, not because his cock is worthless or because he doesn't deserve sex. Sex =/= intimacy in my mind, but I absolutely love PIV sex and have zero interest in living without it for the rest of my life.

PolySJR -> RE: Is sexual denial a barrier to intimacy? (9/25/2012 6:29:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pyschosubmission quote: ORIGINAL: WomanlyWiles it's about his sexuality being in my power and at my discretion. I was coming here to say that very thing, and she bet me to it! [:D] also this quote: And I like sex, a lot I lean more toward restrictions not full chastity. I want penetrative sex, just on my schedule!

MsMillgrove -> RE: Is sexual denial a barrier to intimacy? (9/28/2012 3:00:30 PM)
As the thread indicates, there are dommes who would accept a non-penetration sexual limit from a sub, because that's what the domme desires as well. It comes down only to personal preference and matching up with someone who is a fit. However, I think the word "most" is operative here. Most dommes don't want that set-up. I feel this way myself, even though I've had subs I don't want to experience penetrative sex with--still I feel that it's my call on it. So I avoid subs who tell me that is their hard limit. What if the day comes when I think to myself.. mmm... let's get it on baby. Too late then. No reason why "intimacy" must be linked with anything at all--it only requires a close relationship between two people.

solitarycrowd -> RE: Is sexual denial a barrier to intimacy? (11/7/2012 9:32:23 PM)
Late post, I know.. I believe that sexual denial CAN be a barrier, but isn't always. I regularly keep my sub "caged" in a chastity device. You see, he would love to cum at least once a day, and I'm more of the every couple of days kind of girl. He works from home and it keeps him from playing without me, while also building sexual tension and his anticipation for release. Keeping him in chastity denies him the sexual release and he is very attentive and hungry for me during these times especially. When I want to play, I'll allow him to please me orally, which is fun for me and just adds to the build-up for him. Then, when I want to fuck him I take what I want and we both climax - these are usually very intense and intimate times for us. Bottom line, he gets the control from me that he craves, I get to have his orgasms purely to myself, and I get to fuck him WHEN I WANT. Keep in mind that I am not talking about long-term denial here. A week or less before I want to use his cock for my pleasure (as well as have that uber-intimate charge.) We both enjoy this arrangement, and find that our intimacy and his affection levels have been somewhat higher since we started using chastity on a regular basis. ....and I NEVER deny myself anything I want when it comes to sex. :)

theRose4U -> RE: Is sexual denial a barrier to intimacy? (11/7/2012 9:50:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: subartist Thanks everyone for your thoughts on the subject! I think that Alecta hit the nail on the head when she said that, "social conditioning has been teaching us that male ejaculation = male satisfaction and leads the typical vanilla woman to believe that if a man doesn't cum, he doesn't enjoy her." Or at least that was the observation I had in my head, but it's obviously a very complicated subject. It seems to me that my desire for sexual denial, and not cuckolding, is the thing that most often turns women off. Or else sexual denial means having a less intimate relationship, a friendship, etc. Whereas I want intimacy and love, all of that, but for our expression of intimacy to be different than the norm. I'm sure everyone in a kink forum understands that. I suppose that my needs are very selfish, as are a lot of things in the world of D/s dynamics and kink. The trick is to meet the rare woman whose own selfish needs happen to match mine, and we can be consensually selfish together. :) Uh no...finding someone to match your kink the way you mean is turning her into a fetish delivery system...we hate that!!! Intimacy without sex is easy if you remember she's in charge...what makes HeR happy? I feel most intimate when a snarky comment of "you want to please me wax my floors" actually happens!! No strutting around to make sure I see him do it, no constant "is this right" & certainly no "when can my dick be happy". In my relationships real deep intimacy has been "I know you're working hard this week let me bring you dinner, do you need anything, is there anything I can do"...it has nothing to do with sex or kink. Edit to add: I am one of the odd ducks that had a long term non penitrative (ED) relationship & never felt neglected. He knew service, affection & intimacy were what kept me happy & he liked the idea of me threatening him with a BJ when he was under too much stress. I knew he wouldncall me on it, he knew nothing would come of it...but it reminded him of how primal my desire for him was. For the record, just because a dick isn't invited to the party doesn't mean I'm going without!!

OpenMindOpenHand -> RE: Is sexual denial a barrier to intimacy? (11/7/2012 10:15:19 PM)
I think that denying men sexually is a tedious waste of time, and a sure sign that they think too much of their own flesh. lol The word intimacy means closeness, deep friendship, being known. Is it possible to know another human being without sex? I should hope so! It's certainly possibly with my family. I know my son, very well, and I would never be remotely sexually attracted to him. Is it possible to know another human being and be pleasured by them, and for them to receive some sort of pleasure, without their penis being involved? I knew a paralyzed man who still loved to taste a woman, even though he could not do anything else with her. Just saw a movie about a paralyzed man wherein he mentioned he liked to have his ears touched. So, yes, of course it is possible. However, the majority of men who want to be owned by women, and be sexually denied but provide oral sex, are closeted homosexuals who spend their time lying and saying they are straight, and lying does not make for a good owner/owned relationship. Aside from which, unless one is a sex slave, a slave should not be considering having sex with their owner in the first place. They shouldn't be making that kind of demand or even dishonoring them by thinking of their owner that way, without permission. So, back to sexual denial being about the man thinking his flesh is oh so important ..

FrostedFlake -> RE: Is sexual denial a barrier to intimacy? (11/8/2012 3:09:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MaleBitchLA "sexual denial" (of the male) through enforced chastity does not automatically mean "sexual denial" for the Female. Although the male's psychological fulfillment may be derived from the feeling that his own penis-pleasure & orgasms are denied, he can still sexually perform--using his tongue & fingers-- to pleasure his lady. From what I understand, males kept in chastity are not only deprived of penis-pleasure but their pent-up sexual energy is re-directed by the Dominant into housework, chores, etc. as well as performing oral sex. A cuckold household where the husband is kept totally chaste does not have to mean that he has no intimacy with her since he can loving kiss her, affectionately cuddle & hug her, and, use his tongue & fingers on her clit to show his devotion to her, especially if, as a cuckold, he is using his tongue to 'prep' her for another man who stands by waiting (and the cuck can also use his tongue to 'prep' the other man, too.) So, denying the male does not have to mean denying the female; it simply changes how the intimacy is shown. Uhmmm. Uhhmmmmm. Uhm. Glib simili. Uhm. Redirecting sexual energy into housework is like using Dom Perignon to water the lawn. Extremely wasteful and not good for the lawn are both true, but the main attraction is the POINTLESSNESS of the enterprise. Let us all wonder at the magnificence of NOT HAVING SEX. It gets me horny, I grant you. But that can be cured. Temporarily. Sex can do this for you. Y'know, I don't want to be disrespectful (Yeah, yeah! That's the ticket!) of others proclivities, but, why is there not a thread, much less a popular kink, where tops try to see how many times a day they can get their bottoms off, and try to make them get better at it over time? Yeah. I know. That couldn't be much fun. Could it?

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