RE: FYI : Real data about tax rates.

RE: FYI : Real data about tax rates. (Full Version)

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mnottertail -> RE: FYI : Real data about tax rates. (9/25/2012 7:12:04 AM)
FR: LOLOLOL, what vacuous asswipe is being posted on this thread. Just the last two for instance, having nothing to do with real data about taxrates but some drooling valueless and factless soliloquys the prior being taken from some Brietbart, Boortz, WND or such hyperbolic pudpounding, Charles the dipshit Shithammer, a real imbecile of the highest magnitude.

DomKen -> RE: FYI : Real data about tax rates. (9/25/2012 7:27:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Arturas quote: That includes using taxation to undo harm done by capitalism There it is. America is a capitalistic country. So, you say one must use taxation to undo the harm done by America. That is to say, Change America from a capitalistic society to a socialistic society, a change attempted by the communist party here in the past and one tried by Soviet Russia and a change our valiant armed forces fought and died to prevent in Korea and Viet Nam and through years of a cold war with The Soviet Union and now attempted by the Left on this Great Country from within and behind their backs while these same American Armed Forces stand guard against this form of socialism on the 37th parallel in Korea still in Germany and on lonely warships on and beneath the seas to stand between Chinese Socialism and the free peoples of the world. All the while, some Americans at home are writing such words as "undo harm done by capitalism" and voting for Politicians who plan to obtain power by changing free citizens of the greatest capitalistic country in the word into dependent and under control wards of a socialistic state that would make Lenin proud. This is what is at stake next month, the survival of America as a free, capitialistic country verses a socialistic society. Bullshit. We've been a hybrid state for at least 80 years. We tried true unfettered laissez faire capitalism in the gilded age and it was an unmitigated disaster. Teddy Roosevelt started reining in the excesses of capitalism and FDR really moved us into a socialist state. Since then we've added more socialist programs and refined existing ones. We don't have it perfect but the balance is imroving. Socialist programs in the US Social Security Medicare Medicaid Pell Grants Public Schools Federal funding of research Thus it is wrong to equate America with capitalism in the manner you did.

DomKen -> RE: FYI : Real data about tax rates. (9/25/2012 7:30:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Arturas quote: The economy until 1959 was just what you say it wasn't...as millions more bought houses then than have since in any 10 year period. Mortgages that were $100/mo...were soon $1000/mo. BWomen went to work so the 'family' could afford to buy a house...she had to. I was there. My father purchased a small home. I was modest. Most were but could have been bigger if the woman had worked. Did you ever wonder why so many people could buy homes in the 50's? The GI Bill provided for education and government guaranteed home loans to vets. IOW socialist programs.

vincentML -> RE: FYI : Real data about tax rates. (9/25/2012 8:13:07 AM)
quote: So, the history of it is there, but that only provides correlation, and not necessarily causation. I believe we would have gotten there without the Progressive Era, and that repealing the history of the Progressives won't mean we go back to the way everything was prior to them. Ummm. . . how do you repeal the history of an era without wiping away the humane gains of that era? The era is defined by those advances. We won't go back? In fact there are children used today in the farmland to harvest crops. Additionally, have you not noticed the attempt to rollback the contracts and working conditions of public employees? I believe you have.

slvemike4u -> RE: FYI : Real data about tax rates. (9/25/2012 8:27:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Yachtie One thing about slvemike4u's standard socialist paradise he says Obama does not want - It begins with a near $1 trillion stimulus package. This is where Obama will show himself ideologically. It is his one great opportunity to plant the seeds for everything he cares about: a new green economy, universal health care, a labor resurgence, government as benevolent private-sector "partner." It is the community organizer's ultimate dream. On the contrary. With the country clamoring for action and with all psychological barriers to government intervention obliterated (by the conservative party, no less), the stage is set for a young, ambitious, supremely confident president -- who sees himself as a world-historical figure before even having been sworn in -- to begin a restructuring of the American economy and the forging of a new relationship between government and people. Don't be fooled by Bob Gates staying on. Obama didn't get elected to manage Afghanistan. He intends to transform America. And he has the money, the mandate and the moxie to go for it. That standard socialist paradise is built and maintained on redistribution and taxes. Yes, Obama wants to fundamentally transform America. More pearls before more swine Seems arturas is not the only poster who doesn't understand America....or my posts.[8\|]

Arturas -> RE: FYI : Real data about tax rates. (9/25/2012 8:39:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u quote: ORIGINAL: Yachtie One thing about slvemike4u's standard socialist paradise he says Obama does not want - It begins with a near $1 trillion stimulus package. This is where Obama will show himself ideologically. It is his one great opportunity to plant the seeds for everything he cares about: a new green economy, universal health care, a labor resurgence, government as benevolent private-sector "partner." It is the community organizer's ultimate dream. On the contrary. With the country clamoring for action and with all psychological barriers to government intervention obliterated (by the conservative party, no less), the stage is set for a young, ambitious, supremely confident president -- who sees himself as a world-historical figure before even having been sworn in -- to begin a restructuring of the American economy and the forging of a new relationship between government and people. Don't be fooled by Bob Gates staying on. Obama didn't get elected to manage Afghanistan. He intends to transform America. And he has the money, the mandate and the moxie to go for it. That standard socialist paradise is built and maintained on redistribution and taxes. Yes, Obama wants to fundamentally transform America. More pearls before more swine Seems arturas is not the only poster who doesn't understand America....or my posts.[8\|] Or not.

DesideriScuri -> RE: FYI : Real data about tax rates. (9/25/2012 8:46:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Arturas quote: Then economy depended on refinancing and cashing out your home equity. My economy did not depend on refinancing and cashing out my home equity. Neither did my neighbors, all of them. My home is secure. I have equity. The economy never depended on refinancing and cashing out unless you define the economy as driven by those who could not aford a home buying a home nonetheless and then pretending it was an ATM year after year for a few years. The point is, the economy then and now would have been overall better, "better" defined as steady growth and stability, if nobody bought homes they could not afford and nobody then used them for ATMs. So, that bubble was not "an economy", it was a bubble like the stock market in the crash of 1929 and the economy suffered from the bubble but was not defined by the bubble. Actually, Arturas, MrRodgers is correct here. He isn't talking about your economy, or your neighbors' economies. He's talking about the overall US economy, which did (and still does) rely on debt supported spending from private citizens. I call it American Consumerism, and it's the scourge of the US social everything. People, as a generality, but not guaranteed to apply to each individual, have a propensity to consume and to consume as much, more than, and/or as high a quality, as their neighbors, or others they are socially linked to. That can lead to incredible debt problems if your income doesn't limit your spending. If you aren't over your head in debt, losing your job isn't near as cataclysmic as if you are in debt up to your eyeballs. People were buying without currently having means to pay, speculating that their means were going to improve, or that they could hang in long enough to realize a large appreciation. The company I worked for at the time was a supplier of "stuff." Businesses, government entities, and private citizens were our customers. The company got hit hard when things went south at the end of 2008. Jan thru Oct of '08, the company was running at 8% annual growth over '07. The company I worked for had a hoard of cash they were sitting on, and carried zero long-term debt. Short-term debt was there, but it was one of those things where it was paid off by the time the invoice was due. That did help the company weather the downturn very well, better than some of their competitors who were not as financially solid.

Arturas -> RE: FYI : Real data about tax rates. (9/25/2012 8:59:30 AM)
quote: Socialist programs in the US Social Security Medicare Medicaid Pell Grants Public Schools Federal funding of research None of these define America as a socialist country. They define America as a capitalistic society with paid into programs and a single program that compassionately provides basic medical needs for the poor. The only entitlement programs that exist are the Public Schools and the Common Defense (Armed Forces) and medicaid, and you must be very poor to use it or disabled. The first two is why the Government exists and the third is the safety net for the down and out. So, only one compassionate program and two that define why we have a Government, education and defense and the others you are not entitled to just by breathing and being an American citizen. This weakens you argument a great deal for without the need for common defense we would not have even created the U.S. Government. Later Public education was added and then finally medicaid because we are a compassionate society but by no means does being compassionate mean we are socialistic.

Arturas -> RE: FYI : Real data about tax rates. (9/25/2012 9:05:17 AM)
hate to break it to you but Social Security is not a gimmie either, unless you paid into it you don't get it and the benefit is not the same for all but is based on what you paid into it, along with your employer also based on your wage amounts. Hope that did not destroy your retirement plan.

RacerJim -> RE: FYI : Real data about tax rates. (9/25/2012 9:05:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: Yachtie quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: Yachtie quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen The New Deal, WW2 spending and post war veterans benefits put wealth into the hands of the middle class directly while taxing the wealthy at very high rates. This allowed us to greatly expand the middle class while not running up crippling debt. By the above one would have to conclude that the middle class was built by taxes paid by the wealthy and government largess.[8\|][8\|][8\|] It pretty much was. You're welcome to present contrary evidence but note that means numbers not assertions. You mean as opposed to your assertions?[8\|] You are not worthy any expense of energy. I can back my statements with both math and facts. You obviously cannot. So, DomKen, are you saying that the Middle Class was grown to the size it is through government largess (paid for by taxes paid by the wealthy), and that we need to tax the wealthy more to continue to subsidize an entire economic class of people? That strikes you as "good" and/or "right?" I'm a socialist. It strikes me as obvious that one of government's roles is to provide social and economic justice to the people. That includes using taxation to undo harm done by capitalism. Since you're a socialist it strikes me as obvious that you should donate all of your 'ill-begotten' (via living in capitalist America) assets to a worthy cause (Fisher House and/or the Wounded Warrior Project?), renounce your U.S. citizenship, move to a socialist country, become a citizen there and stay there. To help you expidite same here's a link: List Of Socialist Countries Enjoy.

Arturas -> RE: FYI : Real data about tax rates. (9/25/2012 9:34:55 AM)
Here is the basic problem. It's not rocket science. Thinking citizens already know it and I expect it to happen sooner than later. The problem is one our Founding Fathers recognized when they formed this Union. The problem occurs when a majority of the electoriate, those that vote, do not pay taxes, and we are approaching that point if not already there. Human beings being who they are, those who pay no taxes will vote to obtain more from those who do by force of majority vote. When this country was formed there was no entitlement of voting for all. Only those with a stake in the country could vote, those who paid taxes could vote. This is the only fix, take the vote away from those who do not pay into America; You pay taxes you vote and therefore decide how those taxes are used. You don't pay taxes then nobody cares what you think about how those taxes you did not pay into are used. This is how the country was founded and it must go back to that founding principle or perish.

DesideriScuri -> RE: FYI : Real data about tax rates. (9/25/2012 9:41:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: So, the history of it is there, but that only provides correlation, and not necessarily causation. I believe we would have gotten there without the Progressive Era, and that repealing the history of the Progressives won't mean we go back to the way everything was prior to them. Ummm. . . how do you repeal the history of an era without wiping away the humane gains of that era? The era is defined by those advances. We won't go back? In fact there are children used today in the farmland to harvest crops. Additionally, have you not noticed the attempt to rollback the contracts and working conditions of public employees? I believe you have. You undo all the programs, policies, and laws put in place. Do you truly believe that if we got rid of Unions, that we'd have the same conditions that served as the motivation for creating the Unions in the first place? I'd like to think that, as a country, we've grown and matured past that. Plus, in the information age, those actions can lead to greater and greater impact on the bottom line of a company once they start abusing employees. Hell, Chik-Fil-A noticed an impact after their CEO came out against gay marriage, even though there weren't lots of lawsuits and claims that there was any discrimination against homosexuals. There wasn't any employee abuse, and look what happened there. It's more and more difficult to get away with bullshit these days, and I, for one, like that. Now, what are the contract stipulations and working conditions for public employees that employers are attempting to roll back?

mnottertail -> RE: FYI : Real data about tax rates. (9/25/2012 9:48:04 AM)
Lets look at what is really being said, that unions are the reason there is no business in this country, why would that be, there are much stronger unions in Germany than we have ever had in their hay day (I dont like heyday), they woke the fuck up after the nazis broke those unions, and became a military industrial complex. Financially, Germany is handing us our ass business wise, and so, as a matter of course and fact, the idea wont wash. Just as ignorant an idea as taxes are killing business.

Arturas -> RE: FYI : Real data about tax rates. (9/25/2012 10:38:58 AM)
quote: p.s. unlike you I feel know need to shout from the mountain tops my appreciation of this country,patriotism being the last refuge of the scoundrel and all that. Neither do I feel the need to make any claim of service ,this is the internet,one can claim most anything,I can claim to walk around wrapped in a flag 24/7...it means less than nothing. As do your claims I don't understand what you mean by "patriotism being the last refuge of the scoundrel". I suppose I can flip that around and get the meaning through a little logic: I am a patriot therefore I am a scoundrel. Or, a patriot is a scoundrel and since scoundrels are "bad" then since I am a patriot then I am "bad". I'm not sure why you would even suggest I am just claiming to be a veteran? Is it because you must deflect my response only by saying I am just claiming to be a veteran? I am sure I cannot debate with one who eventually must respond only with "you are a liar and a scoundrel".

Arturas -> RE: FYI : Real data about tax rates. (9/25/2012 10:52:12 AM)
quote: He's talking about the overall US economy, I suggest such a thing does not exist. What does that mean, overall economy? It does not exist in tangible terms. In reality, "the economy" is localized for every single soul. The economy in CA is not the same as that in Nashville, TN. The houseing bubble in parts of the country impacted my house values but only temporarilly and did not result in our houses going on the auction block because "our economy" was stronger, our personal, our local our city our state economies.

Arturas -> RE: FYI : Real data about tax rates. (9/25/2012 10:54:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: Arturas quote: The economy until 1959 was just what you say it wasn't...as millions more bought houses then than have since in any 10 year period. Mortgages that were $100/mo...were soon $1000/mo. BWomen went to work so the 'family' could afford to buy a house...she had to. I was there. My father purchased a small home. I was modest. Most were but could have been bigger if the woman had worked. Did you ever wonder why so many people could buy homes in the 50's? The GI Bill provided for education and government guaranteed home loans to vets. IOW socialist programs. You would be wrong. The GI bill was part of the compensation package then and when I joined.

mnottertail -> RE: FYI : Real data about tax rates. (9/25/2012 10:57:29 AM)
Yeah, and the VA loans were still there, except they were for a max of 17,5 and housing had surpassed them by several magnitudes.

Arturas -> RE: FYI : Real data about tax rates. (9/25/2012 10:59:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: Arturas quote: All of your flag waving support the troops(yet lets not pass any bills to support the veterans,eh?) I am a veteran. I did not know I needed anything more. Yes, I'm sure I don't need anything more. How about you, are you a veteran and if so, what did you need that somehow I did not seem to need? First: Thanks for your service. Second: Not all veterans are getting what they need. My cousin spent 3 tours in Iraq and isn't suffering any ill effects from the broken ankle he received from an IED. Some may question his mental status, but he's not a loose cannon and has matured from the quiet, artistic, shy, runner in High School to a hard working, in your face, good Father (his artistic side is fed by his jamming out jazz grooves on his guitar). There are others, though, who are having a tough time with injuries, physical and/or mental in nature. I, personally, hold the belief that we do not support our troops enough during or after duty (I have never been in the military). I am glad that you have your needs met, but there are plenty of others who do not, and can not on their own meet their needs. I thank you. Could you be more specific about the un-met needs? I was from the Nam era and that was a bad war. Today, there are nam vets still living in VA hospitals and homes around the country. There are a lot more suicides in the armed forces today than there were in the Nam and Korea eras. It is hard to head that kind of thing off I am thinking. I am also of a mind the suicides are not because the danger or seperation from loved ones is more intense that that in Nam or Korea but the outlook of the young men is different now and they have more trouble dealing with Military life and seperation from home and family, it was hard then during Nam and is hard now but not more so.

Arturas -> RE: FYI : Real data about tax rates. (9/25/2012 11:03:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail Yeah, and the VA loans were still there, except they were for a max of 17,5 and housing had surpassed them by several magnitudes. I don't agree. My first house was 900 plus square feet, a small one, and one could get that now on the VA bill. One must make compromises on their first house on size and location and age even and have realistic expectations and even save a little.

mnottertail -> RE: FYI : Real data about tax rates. (9/25/2012 11:15:59 AM)
Ok, so you dont agree, I will alert the media, but Ken is still looking right to me, with his 50s and government loans for housing and you disagree with that as well. Well, no suprises but it was the largest home ownership drive in america and is generally credited by the GI BIll....... So, I am gonna go with that one.

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