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RE: mental Illness and submission - 9/25/2012 7:11:47 AM   
Toysinbabeland


Posts: 1693
Joined: 3/4/2012
From: the other end of Cx's leash
Status: offline 		complete disclosure.
without it there is no true submission.

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Profile   Post #: 41
RE: mental Illness and submission - 9/25/2012 7:58:12 AM   
RemoteUser


Posts: 2854
Joined: 5/10/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Toysinbabeland

complete disclosure.
without it there is no true submission.


Advertising is not the same as honesty. Turn on the TV if you need a reference to cite.


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Profile   Post #: 42
RE: mental Illness and submission - 9/25/2012 8:07:14 AM   
chatterbox24


Posts: 2182
Joined: 1/22/2012
Status: offline 		I am stupid.
I am ugly.
I am a slob.
I am mentally ill.
I am just using that as an example. (some think that about me btw...lol) If you tell people right up front these things they might think them before they meet you when its not even true TO THEM. You might get passed up by someone who wont see you as such once meeting you in the physical and getting to know you.
I just feel advertising might bring out some real goofballs, you have a better chance of avoiding, cause lets face it there are alot of creeps out there, that dont have your best interest in mind. Just theirs.

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Profile   Post #: 43
RE: mental Illness and submission - 9/25/2012 10:17:26 AM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		Personally, I feel that when someone has "I am mentally ill" in a profile, they are making that illness the priority of their lives. Their world revolves around the illness, it is the dominant trait of the person. And for me, when that happens they concentrate on the illness as being who they are instead of just seeing it as a small part of their lives.

If I feel that if the person runs their life around their mental illness, it feels like the person is playing the victim card and/or may not be seeking help or leading a stable life. So by mentioning it in your profile what you're basically saying is "My mental illness defines who I am".

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Profile   Post #: 44
RE: mental Illness and submission - 9/25/2012 1:20:51 PM   
fucktoyprincess


Posts: 2337
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: chatterbox24

I am stupid.
I am ugly.
I am a slob.
I am mentally ill.
I am just using that as an example. (some think that about me btw...lol) If you tell people right up front these things they might think them before they meet you when its not even true TO THEM. You might get passed up by someone who wont see you as such once meeting you in the physical and getting to know you.
I just feel advertising might bring out some real goofballs, you have a better chance of avoiding, cause lets face it there are alot of creeps out there, that dont have your best interest in mind. Just theirs.


Yes, point well taken. This applies not just to mental illness, but any number of other things about ourselves. You know, nothing kills romance deader than a doornail than to be too upfront. Some things are better discovered as one goes along. And just for the record, I'm not advocating anyone hide anything from anyone. It's a time and place judgment about when to reveal certain things about oneself.

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Profile   Post #: 45
RE: mental Illness and submission - 9/25/2012 2:24:00 PM   
kalikshama


Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
Status: offline
quote:

The "therapist" in particular... fuck me. I'd go further and say that if this therapist is a member of a professional body, he/she should be reported.


I'm guessing he's like the "neurologist" who went poof when I started asking him questions about neuroplasticity.

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Profile   Post #: 46
RE: mental Illness and submission - 9/25/2012 8:01:44 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		If some 'great guy' passed me by because of my mental illness, I'd be just as happy. To me, a person with zero knowledge of this is never going to be a great partner for me. I'm not interested in educating him.

But hell, I refused to even meet men who had not themselves been in therapy. It really is that important for me.

If it isn't for you, fine. But the fact that some of you see no reason to mention it doesn't mean that those of us who are upfront about it are wrong. We aren't, for us. Any more than you are, for you. More things in heaven and earth, Horatio ...

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Profile   Post #: 47
RE: mental Illness and submission - 9/26/2012 6:40:16 AM   
fucktoyprincess


Posts: 2337
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

If some 'great guy' passed me by because of my mental illness, I'd be just as happy. To me, a person with zero knowledge of this is never going to be a great partner for me. I'm not interested in educating him.

But hell, I refused to even meet men who had not themselves been in therapy. It really is that important for me.

If it isn't for you, fine. But the fact that some of you see no reason to mention it doesn't mean that those of us who are upfront about it are wrong. We aren't, for us. Any more than you are, for you. More things in heaven and earth, Horatio ...

I don't see anyone here advocating the "no reason to mention it approach" (maybe I missed it, and you can point it out to me),

I do see a discussion around when is an appropriate time to share things.

Again, my primary reason for suggesting that people might not want to advertise it in their profile on an open Internet site such as this, is simply because of the type of people that the OP said contacted her. The two who contacted her were upfront about their intentions, but not everyone who thinks the way they do are upfront.

Again, we are all adults and can advertise whatever we want about ourselves. But in the context of what the OP first raised, I, personally feel like perhaps advertising this is not a good idea. If people like the ones who contacted the OP did not exist, I wouldn't have anything to say about this.

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Profile   Post #: 48
RE: mental Illness and submission - 9/26/2012 10:38:28 AM   
Ninebelowzero


Posts: 3134
Joined: 8/5/2011
Status: offline 		Hey OP my opinion (which is worth naff all in all honesty)

in kink or not sub or not either partner in a relationship is responsible to help the other stay as healthy as humanly possible.

Frankly anyone up front or not who wants to exploit such  an illness should be executed.

That's from someone who had 1 breakdown brought on by a multitude of curcumstances all negative, all hitting simultaneously. I am shit scared of ending up back there so that's how I feel.

Total respect for you for posting this & please steer clear.

x

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Profile   Post #: 49
RE: mental Illness and submission - 9/26/2012 12:25:35 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

I do see a discussion around when is an appropriate time to share things.

Again, my primary reason for suggesting that people might not want to advertise it in their profile on an open Internet site such as this, is simply because of the type of people that the OP said contacted her. The two who contacted her were upfront about their intentions, but not everyone who thinks the way they do are upfront.



It's always a trade off. If you don't mention it, then some people are going to feel that you lied by omission in order to suck them in. At that point you've started a relationship that you were feeling good about and then get to feel sad that it failed.

Or you might get a weirdo like the op did.

Same as mentioning if you're a single parent. You could be really unlucky and get some guy who is looking to do something illegal. But if you don't mention it you could get involved with some guy who has strong feelings about not getting involved with women whose first responsibility is their children and not their dom, and have to deal with accusations of lying.

There's no right or wrong here. It's entirely individual. Again, those of us who feel strongly enough about this, or about mentioning we have a physical handicap before meeting are doing what's right for us. The fact that it isn't right for you doesn't change it from being right for me.


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Profile   Post #: 50
RE: mental Illness and submission - 9/26/2012 12:28:55 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		Do people tell someone in a real life meeting, that they have a mental illness the second they meet them?? I mean that would be really creepy imo. So I guess I just don't understand that if you don't do it in real life, why would you do it online?


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Profile   Post #: 51
RE: mental Illness and submission - 9/26/2012 12:53:28 PM   
TallullahHk


Posts: 572
Joined: 8/20/2012
Status: offline 		I have to agree with most of littlewonder's points. You don't lay all your card on the table the first time you meet someone in real life. I know I would run fast if someone told me EVERYTHING about them right away.

Let people get to know you and show your cards as things come up. Relationships unfold like an blooming flower not a dynamite blast.

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Profile   Post #: 52
RE: mental Illness and submission - 9/26/2012 6:37:50 PM   
fucktoyprincess


Posts: 2337
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP


quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

I do see a discussion around when is an appropriate time to share things.

Again, my primary reason for suggesting that people might not want to advertise it in their profile on an open Internet site such as this, is simply because of the type of people that the OP said contacted her. The two who contacted her were upfront about their intentions, but not everyone who thinks the way they do are upfront.



It's always a trade off. If you don't mention it, then some people are going to feel that you lied by omission in order to suck them in. At that point you've started a relationship that you were feeling good about and then get to feel sad that it failed.

Or you might get a weirdo like the op did.

Same as mentioning if you're a single parent. You could be really unlucky and get some guy who is looking to do something illegal. But if you don't mention it you could get involved with some guy who has strong feelings about not getting involved with women whose first responsibility is their children and not their dom, and have to deal with accusations of lying.

There's no right or wrong here. It's entirely individual. Again, those of us who feel strongly enough about this, or about mentioning we have a physical handicap before meeting are doing what's right for us. The fact that it isn't right for you doesn't change it from being right for me.



Just to be clear, I am only speaking about the specific topic (mental illness) that was mentioned in the OP's post. If anything I posted on this thread suggested otherwise, I apologize for it being misleading. I would actually have to consider on a point by point basis what other things would fall into the category of "reveal before meeting" vs. "reveal face-to-face". So just to be clear, I have no opinion about profiles and the mentioning of physical handicaps, single parenthood, or any other personal information. I am certainly NOT suggesting that all personal information has to be in one's profile.

I've dated people who have had mental illness before, both in the vanilla world and in BDSM. In none of those situations did people tell me about their issues before we had met. In all instances, I was explicitly told face-to-face before we embarked on anything sexual. I never felt "duped", "mislead" or any such thing. If anything, having met them and spent time with them, it gave me context for what their mental illness was within the framework of their overall lives (and for at least one person, it was a bigger issue than for the others). For the record, I do not have any mental illness, and so, to the extent it matters, my advice on this thread should be taken with that in mind. I guess I am speaking from the perspective of my experience as the other person in a relationship (and also from the perspective that everyone should try to be safe on the Internet).

As for the safety issue given that there are predators out there who actively seek those with mental illness, I would just say, the only advice one can give is to at least point out that the risk is there. Obviously, people are free to voluntarily assume whatever risks they want. But it would not be fair to this discussion to not at least point out the explicit risk involved because on this thread, that risk was not immediately apparent.

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Profile   Post #: 53
RE: mental Illness and submission - 9/27/2012 6:36:04 PM   
tsatske


Posts: 2037
Joined: 3/9/2007
From: Louisville, KY
Status: offline
quote:

You don't lay all your card on the table the first time you meet someone in real life.


A hard and fast rule I live by in the dating world - the absolute latest I will tell someone is our very first coffee meet. Usually I tell them by the time we are talking on the phone.

I'm stricter about this than about my physical handicaps. i talk about my physical handicaps as the subject comes up. If they ask about if there's anything I can do, or specifically talk about kneeling, I tell them the artheritis in my knees now prohibits me from kneeling. When we talk about activity levels, I mention how far I can (and can't) walk, and how slow I am. One I talked to recently, who is in a wheel chair himself, told me I should look into getting a motorized chair, but I told him I am avoiding them as long and as much as I can, since walking, even when difficult, is good for me. I have used one in shopping exactly one time, last Nov, when I went out with my sister. We left to catch an early craft show at 6 am, and at 11:p when we walked into the grocery for the last stop of the day, I was limping, and my sis told me to take a chair. usually I just take a seat and have a rest when I am tired, and if people are with me, they do some shopping with out me, then I am ready to go a bit more. When I yardsale, the trick is, buy some good magizines at an early stop. then when I am shopped out, i can sit in the car for a stop or two and read my magizines.

I do think it's important to be upfront with people. If I let someone start to think I was a great catch, then they found out, and it was a hard limit for them, I'd feel, myself, as if I had misled them. rather get it out upfront. But it has been moved to the middle of my profile, so unless they take the time to read the whole thing, they won't see it now. Just like all the young'uns who don't see the warning, at the end of my profile, that if they are as young as my own children, I'm gonna ask 'em how school is going. :>

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Profile   Post #: 54
RE: mental Illness and submission - 9/28/2012 8:53:03 PM   
alexander75310


Posts: 22
Joined: 9/14/2012
Status: offline 		I hope you read the comment by Lizi twice. The last thing you need is to expect a bad apple to make good apples better.
So that you better understand your problem, quit calling yourself "bi-polar". That is simply a new way of saying manic-depressive.

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Profile   Post #: 55
RE: mental Illness and submission - 9/30/2012 11:06:06 AM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline 		The trouble with mental illness is if we were to believe the psychology industry, we would be led to believe everybody has one, it's good for industry simple as that and so in industry's interest to diagnose where applicable.... as everyone of us can be diagnosed with something and that is a fact.

What it used to be to be human with all our differences is now suddenly a game of segregating people into different labels so studies can be conducted and those people dominated under the heading of helped.

I have been diagnosed with much over the years, Autistic spectrum disorders, dyspraxia, chronic depression, bipolar disorder and now Klinefelters syndrome, the latter being the first definite as it is proved through karotype testing and one cannot change that and I do believe there was a few tests done as I am the first diagnosed with such in my area of my country. But of all these diagnosi I have experienced 'experts' trying to tell me what I am thinking as if they have all empirical knowledge because they have studied the condition and so know more than me. It does really bother them when I tell them they are way off the mark and they really haven't a clue and because of this I have no confidence in them and their studies, so they throw up their hands and say they can't help because I am not prepared to be told how I feel, but perhaps x medication may bring me around to their line of thought. Yeah like I am going to do that, no chance, come back when they have a clue because I am not something to be experimented on.

So I understand from my experiences of the medical profession it is not so much about helping people, it is about dominance and so when I hear of people specifically seeking those with mental illnesses in this game alarm bells begin to ring, here is someone who attempts to dominate through a persons medical weakness and to me that, is not on and I do have to wonder exactly what kind f mind is behind such an interest, if a medical professional, then it would be abuse of the impressionable.

But this game BDSM can help those with questions in their mind, I know because I find after a heavy session of SM my mind clears of all the fudge of confusion, catharsis perhaps, it works and it especially works with those that have a dim view of mental illness that take no excuses for failure, we either can or we can't and if we can't that can be worked on until we can.

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Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

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RE: mental Illness and submission - 9/30/2012 11:47:41 AM   
xssve


Posts: 3589
Joined: 10/10/2009
Status: offline
quote:

I told both I think they have an idea that is better in fantasy. The new one specifically said he'd like to keep me in a diseased state to 'better serve him domestically and sexually'. I told hiim depressed people don't want to clean or have sex, or do much of anything else, except maybe cry, and maybe not even that. (sometimes depression feels sad, sometimes it just feels empty). when either depressed enough or manic enough, touch - even the unaviodable touch of air on my skin - can be painful, it's called nerve pain, I take a pill for it, but if I get manic enough it still happens. since even such unaviodable things as wearing clothes or taking a shower hurt, I'm sure not going to be up for much play.
Yeah, I think I'm with you on that, it's your call - unless you're a nymphomaniac.

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Profile   Post #: 57
RE: mental Illness and submission - 10/1/2012 6:53:43 AM   
alildifferent


Posts: 38
Joined: 9/30/2012
Status: offline 		I grew up trans. Most professionals say they don't believe that it's a mental illness. Privately I think they believe differently. It's left me with poor self esteem. You can't go through life being thought of as an "it" by 95 percent of the population without damage in that respect. I think it's left me with the feeling I deserve to be on the submissive side. I deserve and crave punishment. When I'm also used sexually it's doubly powerfull because it also for one minute makes me feel like an attractive person again. Knowing this about myself how can I diss doms who give me exactly what I need on both ends?

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Profile   Post #: 58
RE: mental Illness and submission - 10/1/2012 10:58:52 AM   
angelikaJ


Posts: 8641
Joined: 6/22/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: alexander75310

I hope you read the comment by Lizi twice. The last thing you need is to expect a bad apple to make good apples better.
So that you better understand your problem, quit calling yourself "bi-polar". That is simply a new way of saying manic-depressive.




No, they changed the definition because manic-depressive suggests that everyone in that group gets "manic", and that is not true.

Some people never become what they would identify as "manic".
They have identified 5 different forms of bi-polar disorder.
http://www.webmd.com/bipolar-disorder/guide/bipolar-disorder-forms

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Profile   Post #: 59
RE: mental Illness and submission - 10/1/2012 3:59:17 PM   
tsatske


Posts: 2037
Joined: 3/9/2007
From: Louisville, KY
Status: offline 		alaxander,
I fail to see how using a dated, outmoded label for my condition will cause me to have a better understanding of myself.

My take on diagnosi and labels is this: they should be used if, and for as long as, someone finds them helpful in leading a more fulfilling life. For instance, i have identical twin sons who were diagnoised in their teens with Aspburgers. The one who is now getting his PhD in math finds the label helpful in understanding himself, and still identifeis as Aspie. The one who was turned away from Army service, who is now getting his BFA in Theatre writting, does not find it helpful, and no longer identifies as being on the Autism spectrum, but instead considers himself neuro-normative. The fact is, they are identical twins. They either both have aspburgers, or niether one does. But I fully embrace each of their decisions, as being right for them. That is what matters.

It is helpful to me to know that not everything I see is real, and not everything I think is true. Then I can learn to identify the false, non-helpful, non-productive thoughts. I know a lot of people that are clearly mentally ill, as in bat shit, no doubt about it, crazy. They are people who. like me, have hullicinations, but who, unlike me, aren't able to identify them as such. I thank God for the blessing of my self awareness. The world is a scary place if you don't understand why no one sees what you see or knows what you know. I'm able to understand that if I just know something is true - and EVERYONE else knows that it is false - (like that computers are trying to take over the world) - I'm probably the one that is in the wrong. Then I act on that knowledge, instead of the internal knowledge which FEELS more right, but is, in fact, wrong.

Anyway, as I said, the purpose of labels is to help you do a better job of living life succesfully. Being able to keep up with the latest thoughts on treating my illness helps me, and I don't see how being stuck back in the DSMV II or III and calling it 'Manic Depression' (which is what it was called when I was diagnoised) would be helpful. You specifically said this would lead to greater enlightenment for me. Can you explain how? I'm always open to learning new things that will help me.

< Message edited by tsatske -- 10/1/2012 4:01:03 PM >

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