DesideriScuri
Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
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ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk
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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
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ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk
LOL you never make any sense. Can you possibly imagine the shit that would have happened to the school systems in and around lucas county if those places would have closed? Man this stuff matters. Its not a fantasy discussion. You can look around and say...yeah. those plants close. people leave, housing values fall, tax revenues fall further....schools down the tubes...Cops laid off, Fire stations closed. Its not hypothetical.
I always hear about inefficient plants. Whatever happened to companies trying to fix things rather than closing and moving on? Fucked up CEO's like Jack Welsh and Mitt Romney is what happened.
Somehow you seem to have a notion that life would have been fine.........It wouldn't.
It would have been fine. Of that, I have no doubt. Would it have been rough? Sure as hell would have been. But, I do think that's a necessity, too.
People leave (they're still leaving now). Schools go down the tubes (some would argue that's already the case). cops laid off, fire stations closed (fewer people to protect anyway)
You can't tell me that no one would have come in to pick up the pieces and fill the auto demand needs. At least, you can't tell me that honestly. I simply can not fathom how you can't see beyond the first step. Yes, the auto plants closing would have been bad. Really bad. Really bad here, Detroit and the rest of the country. But, is it necessary to never experience the bad shit?
Nothing has been corrected. It's all going to fall apart again. There isn't enough money to continue to spend, spend, spend. Today it's the Top 1% (lowest earnings for a Top 1%-er was $345k in 2009). Tomorrow, it's the Top 10%. Then, it's the Top 25% and on and on until there is not more % to increase taxes on. We'll still be out there spending away. All will be glorious, if only we could get people to pay more taxes!
Why are you so pessimistic about life? Give me the data that says it is all going to fall apart again? We aren't giving the Auto Companies any more money. Are we?
Wonder how they'd have answered that question after loaning funds to Lee Iaccoca.
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Tell me what did it hurt to do this? We've recovered taxpayer money.
Not all of it, and with what we the taxpayer, via the Federal Government, still hold and how the stock price is tracking, we're not going to get our money back, either.
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We've helped family after family to be able to go move on in areas all over the midwest. What would you have rather happened. All of them losing their houses to create an even larger housing problem? Next step? We've had this scenario being played out for years around here where plants close to either to go or mexico. Does someone come in and bring those plants back up? No......(see GM plant in Mansfield/Chrysler plant in Parma)
And, why would anyone bring those plants backup? The demand is still being met. There isn't any great loss of supply to entice anyone to get into the business. Seriously, dude. Magna is a company in Canada that is involved in a lot of different areas of vehicle manufacturing. They run one of the plants at the Jeep Supplier park (originally built by Prism (I think) until they went under and then it changed hands with Chrysler a few times until Magna finally stepped in and has run it for the past few years), a plant in East Toledo that makes parts via injection molding, and a J.I.T. supplier for other Jeep/Chrysler/Dodge products made in the Toledo Jeep Assembly. And, they expanded their J.I.T. plant by 100% so they could start injection mold processes for a Mazda plant in MI. Magna didn't build the plant at the Supplier Park, nor did they build the plant in E. Toledo. They bought the plants out and started running them themselves. Seamless? Not sure about the E. Toledo plant (was done years and years ago), but the Supplier Park plant had no issues. Businesses will come in if there's a need. Bail the companies out and there is no need. Businesses move without reducing supply, there is no need. No excess demand is not an incentive to create more supply.
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Next step? Yes, I said that the next step would be total collapse. Just as you said people are already leaving, schools are in trouble. Can you possibly imagine the calamity? Who or what would have stepped in. God knows, you wouldn't want the Gov't to try and help out. Who would have?
Why do you wish to impose hardship on your fellow citizens. If you were working in one of those plants would you have said....yeah...Obama shouldn't bail us out. I am fine with losing my house, my possessions.....I will go try to find a very much lower paying job and try to make it......Come on man be realistic.
I don't wish for hardship on anyone. But, it needs to happen to clear the bad investments. I can tell you either didn't research the Austrian Business Cycle or you didn't understand it (I'm guessing the former).
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I actually feel bad for you. I see a person who has come to believe we need to please the rich in this country so that they will give us the scraps off their plates and keep things moving along. I pray that you and everyone like you will open their eyes and see that they need to stand up for themselves. Life is in your hands not theirs. Romney/Ryan love to throw Jesus around....I think we should too. James 5:1-5 is the best prescription for their reading.
Do I believe we need to please the rich? Not by my definitions, but it would be other's. I don't believe we need to confiscate earnings from anyone. Put a tax on consumption and the rich will pay more taxes as they consume more. That puts things in the hands of the taxpayer, not the Government. You are taking a Top-Down crazy ass view of the Federal Government. The larger Government grows, the smaller liberty gets. Are regulations needed? Absolutely, but only in a "protect the rights of the Citizens" way. Boosting one business over another is wrong for Government to do (and, that absolutely means I have no problem cutting the "Big Oil subsidies" when we cut all business subsidies). Government intervention skews markets and those market skews are rarely taken into account when a bill is considered, written and passed.
Read "Economics in One Lesson" by Henry Hazlitt. It's amazingly in depth and easy to understand (Hell, I read it and understood it). It blasts away a lot of common political economic myths.
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What I support:
- A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
- Personal Responsibility
- Help for the truly needy
- Limited Government
- Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)
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