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RE: D/s and politics - where do you draw the line? - 10/4/2012 9:33:30 PM   
littlewonder


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RE: D/s and politics - where do you draw the line? - 10/5/2012 2:29:49 AM   
Rainwalker


Posts: 38
Joined: 10/3/2012
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quote:

Rainwalker: Thank you so much for your condolences. This time is a trial, but I think I'm doing fairly well considering everything. One thing I am doing is trying to reestablish friendships and hobbies. I hadn't realized how much mom's illness had isolated me in the last few months.


Perhaps I relate to or am sensitive to the devastatingly empty sorrowful feelings and emotions surrounding you because not so long ago I too went through them. (My wife and daughter.)

Now to your question, for a little over 18 years my mistress and I voted the same way. It seemed irrational and illogical to pursue a split ticket with her vote canceling my vote, especially when we shared the same issues. I



< Message edited by Rainwalker -- 10/5/2012 2:30:28 AM >

(in reply to Calandra)
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RE: D/s and politics - where do you draw the line? - 10/5/2012 8:52:08 AM   
Calandra


Posts: 725
Joined: 11/22/2004
Status: offline 		Looking back, I may have read something wrong, but Lady Pact said "How flipping shallow does somebody have to be to use their authority over somebody else to try to sway a political outcome? Would you, OP, want My opinion to garner two votes to your one?"

The way I understand it to discuss politics involves "swaying someone's opinion". In her follow up sentence she specifically uses the term "opinion".

That is what I was discussing... I can see that to order someone to vote a certain way is unethical, but it seemed as if perhaps even discussing politics is taboo to some? Maybe because of the inherent authority in a D/s relationship...?

Once again, no disrespect intended, just found it interesting.

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Lady Kathryn
Athens, Ga.
House of Phoenix

"Nothing is ever final until you're dead - and even then I'm sure God negotiates" Anjelica Huston in Everafter

(in reply to SylvereApLeanan)
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RE: D/s and politics - where do you draw the line? - 10/5/2012 9:01:43 AM   
Calandra


Posts: 725
Joined: 11/22/2004
Status: offline 		Thank you. I think this was what I was asking about - the give and take between Top and bottom in reaching a political decision together.

I remember a few years ago My cubby was not so very politically informed. I bought U.S. Government for Dummies and we read it together. He now ENJOYS researching political candidates, and we arrive at a decision together, however this would never have happened if I as a Domme had not been proactive. He even changed MY vote a few years ago in a presidential election.

I enjoy hearing how D/s couples (or multiples) work through real life, non-fantasy issues.

_____________________________

Lady Kathryn
Athens, Ga.
House of Phoenix

"Nothing is ever final until you're dead - and even then I'm sure God negotiates" Anjelica Huston in Everafter

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RE: D/s and politics - where do you draw the line? - 10/5/2012 9:02:40 AM   
OsideGirl


Posts: 14441
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From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SylvereApLeanan
with the expectation that they will only enter into/continue a relationship with someone who shares similar core values, making the swaying of their partners' votes a moot point.


We're voting for two different people and we share core values. We just see different issues as being the primary issue.

Neither one of us is a hardcore Democrat or Republican. We actually find things that we agree with under both parties. I don't get this concept that voting on the other side of the fence from me automatically means that person is 180 degrees from me and is therefore not compatible with me. Especially, since we're clearly compatible with each other.

He has explained to me why he is voting the way he is. I respect his well thought out decision.
I have explained to him why I am voting the way I am. He respects my well thought out decision.


< Message edited by OsideGirl -- 10/5/2012 9:22:22 AM >

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RE: D/s and politics - where do you draw the line? - 10/5/2012 9:09:16 AM   
Calandra


Posts: 725
Joined: 11/22/2004
Status: offline 		I could easily see cubby voting differently than I do. We are very compatible, however sometimes WHICH issues are at the forefront is different for him than for me.

Thanks for your comments.

_____________________________

Lady Kathryn
Athens, Ga.
House of Phoenix

"Nothing is ever final until you're dead - and even then I'm sure God negotiates" Anjelica Huston in Everafter

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RE: D/s and politics - where do you draw the line? - 10/5/2012 9:26:16 AM   
Rochsub2009


Posts: 2536
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Calandra

sub/slaves, do you WANT your Dominant to have influence over these areas of your life? Why do you answer the way you do?

How does your answer change if you are ambivalent to the candidates? If you are opposed to one or more of the candidates?


As a sub, I think I might be a bit offended if a Domme tried to dictate to me who I had to vote for. For example, I thought that Bush was a terrible president. If a Domme had commanded me to vote for Bush, I wouldn't have been able to obey that command. IMO, that would have been almost as unacceptable as if she had ordered me to molest a child or engage in scat play.

IMO, politics and religion are very personal things. Positions on those topics are very personal, and should not be dictated by another. To me, dictating who a sub must vote for is no different that dictating what religion they must accept. Both are hard limits for me. But I do recognize that there are many subs/slaves who would obediently change their position on both politics and religion if instructed to do so by their Dom/Domme.

(in reply to Calandra)
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RE: D/s and politics - where do you draw the line? - 10/5/2012 9:43:16 AM   
Rainwalker


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quote:

IMO, politics and religion are very personal things. Positions on those topics are very personal, and should not be dictated by another. To me, dictating who a sub must vote for is no different that dictating what religion they must accept. Both are hard limits for me. But I do recognize that there are many subs/slaves who would obediently change their position on both politics and religion if instructed to do so by their Dom/Domme.


Oh I recognize your point, there are a host of things I would not even consider but they were discussed, pristinely defined and agreed upon before we commited to each other. Where voting was concerned we both faced the same challenges so it was just which candidate offered the greatest opportunity to reach our goals. Even if that were not the case, I would have voted as she did simply to not be causal of her vote to become meaningless.

(in reply to Rochsub2009)
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RE: D/s and politics - where do you draw the line? - 10/5/2012 9:44:31 AM   
Calandra


Posts: 725
Joined: 11/22/2004
Status: offline 		While I deeply appreciate your sentiment, you use the term dictate, while I use the term influence... there is a huge difference bettween the two.
Dictate does not involve discussion, negotiation, communication, whereas, influence would involve all of those things. I have found a benefit in discussing politics with my slave because we get to discuss a whole range of issues that are important to us.

_____________________________

Lady Kathryn
Athens, Ga.
House of Phoenix

"Nothing is ever final until you're dead - and even then I'm sure God negotiates" Anjelica Huston in Everafter

(in reply to Rochsub2009)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: D/s and politics - where do you draw the line? - 10/5/2012 9:56:03 AM   
JeffBC


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From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
This is one of those areas where I give a standard answer. Could I? Yes. Would I? No, because it's not ethical. How flipping shallow does somebody have to be to use their authority over somebody else to try to sway a political outcome?

Well, apparently, as shallow as me. I'm afraid I just don't see it the same way. By this reasoning ALL campaigning or politics or political activism is bad and I just can't go there. Yes, people try to influence other people to vote certain ways. Me too. My influence with Carol just happens to be... uh... excessive. Nor do I believe I am the only husband on the face of the planet who strongly influences the vote of his wife. I'm pretty cool with my shallow position on this one.


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RE: D/s and politics - where do you draw the line? - 10/5/2012 10:13:42 AM   
Rainwalker


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Joined: 10/3/2012
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quote:

Well, apparently, as shallow as me. I'm afraid I just don't see it the same way. By this reasoning ALL campaigning or politics or political activism is bad and I just can't go there. Yes, people try to influence other people to vote certain ways. Me too. My influence with Carol just happens to be... uh... excessive. Nor do I believe I am the only husband on the face of the planet who strongly influences the vote of his wife. I'm pretty cool with my shallow position on this one.


Let me see if I can address the use of the word shallow. As a dom and caretaker of your slaves (submissive) best interest it is your responsibility to lead and guide her.
Ultimately advise (demand) inform and instruct her in how to vote in her best interest..


< Message edited by Rainwalker -- 10/5/2012 10:15:20 AM >

(in reply to JeffBC)
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RE: D/s and politics - where do you draw the line? - 10/5/2012 10:21:08 AM   
RemoteUser


Posts: 2854
Joined: 5/10/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
This is one of those areas where I give a standard answer. Could I? Yes. Would I? No, because it's not ethical. How flipping shallow does somebody have to be to use their authority over somebody else to try to sway a political outcome?


Well, apparently, as shallow as me. I'm afraid I just don't see it the same way. By this reasoning ALL campaigning or politics or political activism is bad and I just can't go there. Yes, people try to influence other people to vote certain ways. Me too. My influence with Carol just happens to be... uh... excessive. Nor do I believe I am the only husband on the face of the planet who strongly influences the vote of his wife. I'm pretty cool with my shallow position on this one.



Question: do you discuss and influence her views on the people, or the issues? It makes a difference. With issues, if she votes differently than you, you can take satisfaction and pride from knowing that she's making an informed choice, even if it isn't the choice you would make.



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RE: D/s and politics - where do you draw the line? - 10/5/2012 10:22:26 AM   
Rochsub2009


Posts: 2536
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Calandra

you use the term dictate, while I use the term influence... there is a huge difference between the two.
Dictate does not involve discussion, negotiation, communication, whereas, influence would involve all of those things. I have found a benefit in discussing politics with my slave because we get to discuss a whole range of issues that are important to us.


I agree that dictate and influence are different. I would have no problem with intellectual debate with the intent being to influence. In fact, I'd find that to be stimulating. What I would find offensive would be if the Dom/Domme tried to dictate, rather than influence.

(in reply to Calandra)
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RE: D/s and politics - where do you draw the line? - 10/5/2012 10:25:42 AM   
Calandra


Posts: 725
Joined: 11/22/2004
Status: offline 		I should also probably clarify... I see the act of forcibly demanding that a sub/slave vote a certain way is unethical. If a sub/slave WANTS to yield their vote to their Dom/me, and that Dom/me accepts the responsibility, I do not see a problem. In my opinion, a Dom/me would never go to the trouble of voting if they were not convinced they were supporting the right person, or at the least voting for the lesser of two evils.

Sadly I was unable to vote FOR a president for many years, only AGAINST the one I did not want in that office.

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Lady Kathryn
Athens, Ga.
House of Phoenix

"Nothing is ever final until you're dead - and even then I'm sure God negotiates" Anjelica Huston in Everafter

(in reply to Rainwalker)
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RE: D/s and politics - where do you draw the line? - 10/5/2012 11:14:55 AM   
mussorgsky


Posts: 44
Joined: 8/4/2011
From: Connecticut, USA
Status: offline 		"Sadly I was unable to vote FOR a president for many years, only AGAINST the one I did not want in that office." - Calandra

And that's precisely why I stopped voting either of the two parties in presidential elections. It's obvious that they both suck at choosing an "ideal" candidate. The best thing I've heard about Romney is that he's not Obama, and the best about Obama is he's not Romney... when they are almost indistinguishable on most issues. [Aside from the fact that Romney is contesting John Kerry's record on flip-flopping] I encourage people to vote Third Party, even if not Libertarian like I do. Why? Because it's a step better than staying home: it's giving both parties the finger. It's a protest vote if nothing else. And when enough people start doing it we can send a clear signal to those bastards that they can't and won't get away with their lousy game of screwing us every day. Think about this: when's the last time either party has done something good for this country without simultaneously raping it and our freedoms?

Never forget the Ninth and Tenth Amendments to the US Constitution. Our politicians purposefully ignore them; that alone is reason enough to enforce them.

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Also...
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(in reply to Calandra)
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RE: D/s and politics - where do you draw the line? - 10/5/2012 11:20:45 AM   
Rainwalker


Posts: 38
Joined: 10/3/2012
Status: offline
quote:

Think about this: when's the last time either party has done something good for this country without simultaneously raping it and our freedoms?


The really sad thing is, one of the candidate is going to win…we all lose.

(in reply to mussorgsky)
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RE: D/s and politics - where do you draw the line? - 10/5/2012 11:36:17 AM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		Yeah, I don't see it as a big deal when Master "influences" me on voting or issues. There have been many times he has changed the way I view certain topics and candidates. He's just a tad more right wing than I am and I feel over the years he's kinda swayed my moving more to the right wing as well. I just feel we're getting older and as you get older your views change. Ours have become a little more....mm...the word to use....realistic instead of idealistic. I think I may have influenced him as well about some things. It's all part of being in a relationship. How could one be in a relationship and NOT have influenced each other unless you are so extremely stubborn that you shut off listening to any views from your partner. I'm glad Master isn't like that. We love to help each other see things in a different view. It's fun. It's educational, it's interesting. It keeps life from being dull.

But if he felt I was sooo completely wrong on my stance that it would possibly hurt his life if the wrong candidate was elected and if he told me to vote for another party, I would. Not only because I'm his slave, but I also take into account how something may hurt or harm him in some way.



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RE: D/s and politics - where do you draw the line? - 10/5/2012 11:56:43 AM   
JeffBC


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From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RemoteUser
Question: do you discuss and influence her views on the people, or the issues? It makes a difference. With issues, if she votes differently than you, you can take satisfaction and pride from knowing that she's making an informed choice, even if it isn't the choice you would make.

Carol and I discuss everything and she is highly influential on me just as I am on her. Nor have I decided that I will tell her how to vote this time around. But I reject the idea presented that this particular area of control is somehow different than so many others and/or somehow subversive to the political system as a whole.



_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to RemoteUser)
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RE: D/s and politics - where do you draw the line? - 10/5/2012 12:14:29 PM   
myotherself


Posts: 7157
Joined: 3/9/2006
From: The cold bit of the UK
Status: offline 		Master and I have similar political views. We discuss politics quite a lot, and I'm sure if we were in the run-up to a General Election we would discuss it a lot more.

I doubt he'd try to influence my vote - he trusts me to make the best decision for me, and he understands that I would rather be allowed to cast the vote my own way.

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RE: D/s and politics - where do you draw the line? - 10/5/2012 12:28:43 PM   
BambiBoi


Posts: 461
Joined: 8/10/2010
Status: offline 		How is voluntarily handing over ones power and right to vote any different than voluntarily handing over one's rights to other freedoms? Submissives often give up constitutionally protected rights, and the fundamental human rights that flow from them, for a host of reasons.

I see no appreciable difference between voluntarily giving up one's right to vote as compared to giving up one's right to speak. In this regard, I agree with Calandra.

I agree with others who feel that forcing an s-type to vote a certain way when they don't want to is the difference between sex and rape. I find it unhealthy for a dominant to use their power in a relationship to sway a political debate in the household. To say "well we both have good points, but I own you, so I win" is a logical fallacy.

What it really boils down to is how much the s-type cares about voting. If it's important to the s-type to have a say in elections, and the dominant is using relational aggression (bullying by threatening the relationship e.g. "It's a dealbreaker if you vote for X") to force a response, then the relationship has an element of abuse. Transfer of voting power, just like all limitations/requirements s-types submit to is predicated on submissive consent. Once that's gone, there is no more power exchange, only abuse.

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