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RE: D/s and politics - where do you draw the line? - 10/5/2012 1:15:59 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		If I voted for a candidate who said he would do nothing to help educational loans or make it even worse than it is now, I would feel like I just betrayed Master because I know that's one of his sticking points in who he votes for. I knew the candidate's views on educational loans and yet I voted for him knowing if he won that it would harm Master and I'm sure he would be a bit upset about it. He would probably be wondering if maybe we were growing apart in morals and values. So that's basically how I feel when choosing who to vote for and his view of who he would want me to vote for.


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RE: D/s and politics - where do you draw the line? - 10/5/2012 1:22:15 PM   
mussorgsky


Posts: 44
Joined: 8/4/2011
From: Connecticut, USA
Status: offline 		littlewonder- but voting on a single issue neglects the rest of the issues. Would you be in favour of a candidate who supports your views on educational loans but was against all the rest? What if he had a perfect stance on that issue but was racist, homophobic, xenophobic, etc.?

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RE: D/s and politics - where do you draw the line? - 10/5/2012 1:28:38 PM   
SailingBum


Posts: 3225
Joined: 12/10/2007
From: Sailin the stormy sea
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Neither of us would be compatible with Republicans.

As it happens, in local stuff I'm usually the one who says who to vote for. In a small town, the big thing is not mayor but highway superintendent. And I'm more likely to know the people running since I've lived here longer than he has, and to know who is capable of handling this job.




I must admit anyone who votes strictly for one party or the other to my mind is a person who can't think for themselves. As they blindly follow the bull shit of their selected party without considering the actual person they are voting for. It happens all the time ppl that have voted for convicted felons for public office just because they have always voted for a certain party. How moronic is that???

So it's time for ppl to get their heads out of their collective asses and vote the person and not the party.

BadOne



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RE: D/s and politics - where do you draw the line? - 10/5/2012 1:33:30 PM   
Rainwalker


Posts: 38
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quote:

littlewonder- but voting on a single issue neglects the rest of the issues. Would you be in favour of a candidate who supports your views on educational loans but was against all the rest? What if he had a perfect stance on that issue but was racist, homophobic, xenophobic, etc.?


Key point that is most often overlooked by the not so sophisticated voter. Tracking the candidate in terms of what they have done in the past, not what the media projects but an in-depth accounting of which bills he/she supported, the stance when on the floor votes were called for. The list goes on and on.

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RE: D/s and politics - where do you draw the line? - 10/5/2012 1:37:56 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		it would depend on how important that one issue is to my family. If the candidate said he was going to cut military widow benefits and healthcare, it wouldn't matter to me what their other stances are. Without my widow benefits, I'm screwed and may as well be living on the streets. That's how important that issue is for me.



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RE: D/s and politics - where do you draw the line? - 10/5/2012 1:44:03 PM   
mussorgsky


Posts: 44
Joined: 8/4/2011
From: Connecticut, USA
Status: offline 		littlewonder: so what if the candidate promises to increase those same benefits while he/she: shreds the Constitution, imposes a more totalitarian state than we've already got, destroys what's left of the economy, puts armed political Party agents at key places to monitor and police activity, bans gay marriage on the federal level, bans all forms of contraception, bans all abortions, takes away our right to vote, and imposes a 75% tax rate on all people?

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RE: D/s and politics - where do you draw the line? - 10/5/2012 1:48:50 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		again, those ideas would still threaten my benefits that I receive so I would not vote for that person. They are intertwined with those benefits. But if they didn't intertwine with my benefits then I would probably still vote for that person because like I said, without my benefits nothing else will matter to me. I will be homeless and probably dead within two weeks so the other stuff won't matter to me anyway.


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RE: D/s and politics - where do you draw the line? - 10/5/2012 1:58:18 PM   
Aswad


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

How flipping shallow does somebody have to be to use their authority over somebody else to try to sway a political outcome?


How does shallow come into it?

IWYW,
— Aswad.


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RE: D/s and politics - where do you draw the line? - 10/5/2012 2:10:08 PM   
BambiBoi


Posts: 461
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

How flipping shallow does somebody have to be to use their authority over somebody else to try to sway a political outcome?


How does shallow come into it?

IWYW,
— Aswad.



When the exercise of power over another's right to vote is used to impact the outcome of an election, that is petty, small, and shallow. It turns my gift of submission, the power over my vote, into the same political game as paying homeless people with booze and cigarettes to vote a certain way. Is that what your girls are to you? Just bums who can be bought for smokes?


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RE: D/s and politics - where do you draw the line? - 10/5/2012 2:20:58 PM   
mussorgsky


Posts: 44
Joined: 8/4/2011
From: Connecticut, USA
Status: offline 		littlewonder - that's a huge problem with America right now. Too many people are looking for what the government can give them, not thinking that the government already stole it from someone else. I'm not even talking about rich v. poor or any of that Marxist nonsense, I'm talking about how people do not understand the bigger picture.
Ask yourself, do you agree with the following:
-the State [should] make it its duty to provide opportunities of employment first of all for its own Citizens.
-It must be the first duty of every Citizen to carry out intellectual or physical work. Individual activity must not be harmful to the public interest and must be pursued within the framework of the community and for the general good.
-and therefore the abolition of all income obtained without labor or effort.
-the nationalization of all enterprises (already) converted into corporations (trusts).
-profit-sharing in large enterprises
-the large-scale development of old-age pension schemes
-the creation and maintenance of a sound middle class...the most careful consideration for the owners of small businesses in orders placed by national, state, or community authorities.
-Abolition of ground rent and prevention of all speculation in land.
-the ruthless battle against those who harm the common good by their activities. Persons committing base crimes against the People, usurers, profiteers, etc., are to be punished by death without regard of religion or race.
- the replacement of Roman Law, which serves a materialistic World Order, by [American] Law.
-In order to make higher education—and thereby entry into leading positions—available to every able and industrious [American], the State must provide a thorough restructuring of our entire public educational system. The courses of study at all educational institutions are to be adjusted to meet the requirements of practical life. Understanding of the concept of the State must be achieved through the schools (teaching of civics) at the earliest age at which it can be grasped. We demand the education at the public expense of specially gifted children of poor parents, without regard to the latter’s position or occupation.
-The State must raise the level of national health by means of mother-and-child care, the banning of juvenile labor, achievement of physical fitness through legislation for compulsory gymnastics and sports, and maximum support for all organizations providing physical training for young people.
-laws to fight against deliberate political lies and their dissemination by the press. This will include government oversight and regulation
-freedom for all religious denominations, provided that they do not endanger the existence of the State or offend the concepts of decency and morality
-carry out all the above we demand: the creation of a strong central autority in the [country]. Unquestioned authority by the political central [Congress] over the entire [nation] and over its organizations in general.

Think carefully on how many of those you or others agree with and hold dear. Though the nation in question has been changed, all of those come from the same source given in Munich, 1920. The source? The Party Platform for the National Socialists. Now think about totalitarianism and how it takes root in a country. It doesn't come overnight by a single dictator. No, it comes with full support from a political party and the people it mobilizes. How much longer before we sing praises to the Dear Leader in this country? Oh, wait, that's right, we've already got school children singing praises to Obama. And it's no wonder. He's dropped more bombs than any other Nobel Peace Prize winner. You know, the prize he got for, um, for... for the promise that he was going to do great things but never deliver on them. Riiiight. And if you believe that Romney is any better you should stop drinking the Kool-Aid.

[source http://users.stlcc.edu/rkalfus/PDFs/026.pdf]

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Si vis pacem, para bellum
Also...
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RE: D/s and politics - where do you draw the line? - 10/5/2012 2:31:45 PM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BambiBoi
When the exercise of power over another's right to vote is used to impact the outcome of an election, that is petty, small, and shallow. It turns my gift of submission, the power over my vote, into the same political game as paying homeless people with booze and cigarettes to vote a certain way. Is that what your girls are to you? Just bums who can be bought for smokes?

*blinks* Say uh... whaaa???? Holy cow whodathunk it? Suddenly all forms of influence and authority are identical and there's no point in differentiating? Man, my world sure is an awful lot simpler.


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RE: D/s and politics - where do you draw the line? - 10/5/2012 3:10:30 PM   
BambiBoi


Posts: 461
Joined: 8/10/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: BambiBoi
When the exercise of power over another's right to vote is used to impact the outcome of an election, that is petty, small, and shallow. It turns my gift of submission, the power over my vote, into the same political game as paying homeless people with booze and cigarettes to vote a certain way. Is that what your girls are to you? Just bums who can be bought for smokes?

*blinks* Say uh... whaaa???? Holy cow whodathunk it? Suddenly all forms of influence and authority are identical and there's no point in differentiating? Man, my world sure is an awful lot simpler.



I submit that various forms of authority or influence that serve the same end can be considered alike, and caution should be exerted to make sure they do not slip into becoming identical.

If all Top cares about is that Bottom votes for X, with no kinky "I say, you do because of love and ownership" element, then what is the difference? The point is drawn even more clearly because any one vote is equal to another vote. So for those who are mustering votes by exerting relational aggression ("I can't be friends with you if you vote for Romney" or "no slave of mine will vote for Obama") are reducing their beautiful power exchanges into bribing bums to vote.

The reality is that when Top tells Bottom who to vote for, it probably BOTH serves Top's political wishes AND is the sort of exercise of power that strengthens their bonds. I would be more than happy to continue my explanation, if you'd like.

< Message edited by BambiBoi -- 10/5/2012 3:11:59 PM >

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RE: D/s and politics - where do you draw the line? - 10/5/2012 3:49:37 PM   
Whenready


Posts: 319
Joined: 3/5/2009
Status: offline 		I would require her to vote.

How she votes - or spoils her paper - is up to her.

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RE: D/s and politics - where do you draw the line? - 10/5/2012 3:53:12 PM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline 		I think I'll let it drop. The examples you gave are so far afield of the situation I actually face that the comparisons are pointless.

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RE: D/s and politics - where do you draw the line? - 10/5/2012 7:27:27 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline
quote:

littlewonder - that's a huge problem with America right now. Too many people are looking for what the government can give them, not thinking that the government already stole it from someone else. I'm not even talking about rich v. poor or any of that Marxist nonsense, I'm talking about how people do not understand the bigger picture.


Sorry but when it comes down to it, all I care about is me and mine. I'm not really worried about the rest of the world. My family and I come first. So if me voting for something that will determine my entire life, then that's what I'm going to do. I don't really care how it will affect the rest of the world at that point. Call me greedy or cold or whatever, really doesn't matter to me but my priority is not the rest of the world.

and yeah, like Jeff, I'm gonna bow out I think since I very much agree with him.



< Message edited by littlewonder -- 10/5/2012 7:28:08 PM >

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RE: D/s and politics - where do you draw the line? - 10/5/2012 8:27:38 PM   
Aswad


Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BambiBoi

When the exercise of power over another's right to vote is used to impact the outcome of an election, that is petty, small, and shallow.


As opposed to, for instance, pooling votes?

And how is this any worse than telling her that we are through if she votes for the White Power Alliance?

quote:

It turns my gift of submission, the power over my vote, into the same political game as paying homeless people with booze and cigarettes to vote a certain way.


There is no gift involved in our relationship, nor can I see there being one in a future relationship.

quote:

Is that what your girls are to you? Just bums who can be bought for smokes?


The flaws in your logic aside, I don't see why you look down on bums.

I have one girl, and if you cared to know anything about her, me or us, you would probably be well aware of how silly your question sounds.

IWYW,
— Aswad.


< Message edited by Aswad -- 10/5/2012 8:30:00 PM >

_____________________________

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From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


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RE: D/s and politics - where do you draw the line? - 10/5/2012 9:43:33 PM   
SexyThoughts


Posts: 180
Joined: 7/14/2011
Status: offline 		"Polite" Etiquette guides recommend steering clear of Sex, Religion and Politics for a reason.

You normally save those topics for your close friends. Those close enough to drunkenly punch you, and be forgiven when you both sober up.

Though saying that, I once had an pretty close to 1%, American sex tourist sub claim she was so "no limits" that her safe word was "I love Obama". If she ever said that, I was supposed to also call an ambulance since she was about to die.

Americans are weird

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RE: D/s and politics - where do you draw the line? - 10/5/2012 10:26:07 PM   
Alecta


Posts: 1355
Joined: 1/19/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Calandra
This said, how much control do you exert over their political activities? Do you expect them to vote as you do? Do you engage in discussions on the issues?



This is a moot question. You are asking pointedly towards a TPE situation, and first of all, why anyone who are not compatible enough to have similar or at least accommodating political views would put themselves together in that situation is beyond me. Secondly, there are only 3 words: "Master Knows Best".


Like it or not, politics are a big part of who we are as people, even being disinterested or overzealous. Politics seeps into everything. Being for any one party implies that you hold certain values higher over others and have certain opinions and these things count. It isn't just a button you wear.

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RE: D/s and politics - where do you draw the line? - 10/5/2012 10:38:12 PM   
PrincessJessieJ


Posts: 159
Joined: 7/3/2012
Status: offline 		No.
I have a couple of subs of my own, and I do care for them quite well. One of the things I rarely touch on, though, is politics. We may be compatable in everything else, but that's likely the one place where we're not likely to be, just because my own political views are pretty out there.
We do at least agree that some politicians should be rounded up and shot, though. *cough*

that having been said.. I control everything else. I COULD tell them to vote a certain way- but I wont. Politics is something that can be so deeply personal- or maybe it's just because it is, to me- that I would see that as a violation of trust.

Just my two cents.

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RE: D/s and politics - where do you draw the line? - 10/5/2012 10:41:01 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		What ISN'T deeply personal in a relationship? I mean...nevermind. I just don't get that.


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