Just TALK, gawds damns it!

Just TALK, gawds damns it! (Full Version)

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pyschosubmission -> Just TALK, gawds damns it! (10/5/2012 5:41:28 AM)
Well I've been here a wee while noo and I have to say, by far the most common advice has been, "Just talk to him/her/them" Which, in my opinion anyway, has always been quite prudent and in a lot of cases the most screamingly obvious thing to do. However, the question I really want to ask is, are we on the whole scared of talking to partners? Or is this a phenomenon more associated with new relationships, where people are still getting used to each other and can be scared of "rocking the boat" as it were? Just a random Friday afternoon thought I had...

ChatteParfaitt -> RE: Just TALK, gawds damns it! (10/5/2012 6:06:44 AM)
People do not talk about the things they most need to talk about. This is not merely a random statement, but one based on being the kind of person people have been going to for advice for the past 25 years now. I could literally spend all my time online and in real time giving advice to people. But I don't, I can't, it's not how I want to spend my life. (If I wanted to be a counselor or therapist, I would get the proper education and do just that.) In any case, I have some experience with this question. The number of couples who actually talk about things they need to talk about are quite few, and it doesn't seem to matter where they are in the relationship. People, in general, are socialized to not talk about feelings and those things that are most important to them. Very often the family model is to "not talk about it." It should be no huge surprise that these people have a very difficult time talking to their spouses or significant others about the things that really matter. I feel I must add, although females are much better at this type of communication, at least with each other, they suck big time at getting men to open up and verbalize about what is really going on in that male brain when it comes to feelings and relationship issues. I've given much thought as to why that is, and what women should do about it. The first and most obvious thing is to not expect the man in your life to have your communication skills when it comes to verbalizing about feelings and emotions. Men need a lot more time to internalize their feelings. So if you ask how they feel about something, you have to ready for an "I can't answer that now" type of answer. By ready for, I mean, don't get angry, it's a valid answer. Life most females, I could spend time every day talking about feelings, emotions, and relationship things. Most men find the very idea of having to do this every day a nightmare. So don't squander the limited amount of time a man is willing to bring to the "let's talk" table. Use it wisely to talk about things that really are important. Oh, the "let's talk" thing. Most men HATE THAT. Why? B/c they automatically assume they did something wrong, and now they are in for a verbal ass chewing. And what male is up for that? So if you say "let's talk" follow it up with what you want to talk about, and make it clear you are not scheduling an argument. If all your talks about feelings, emotions, and the relationship in general end up as arguments, please consider some short term counseling to learn how to talk to each other in a positive way. It really can work wonders.

GreedyTop -> RE: Just TALK, gawds damns it! (10/5/2012 6:15:10 AM)
Oddly, in relationships, I seem to almost always be the one that has difficulties having talks. It's almost always been the male that has been the 'talker'. I wonder why that is, when I have no problems talking to my Mom, or my friends (or here..LOL).

lizi -> RE: Just TALK, gawds damns it! (10/5/2012 6:28:34 AM)
One aspect is that people come here secretly hoping that there is some code that they have to follow. If there were, they can get their heart's desires without working for it like usual. It's easier to think that to get A, I have to follow steps B, C, and D, instead of the trying the whole alphabet to see if things go anywhere. However, relationships take the whole alphabet, and they're fucking hard work. If you stumbled upon the trick to getting one in half the time with half the effort doesnt' that seem like a deal? Hell yes I'll sign up for this BDSM stuff and follow the program so I can get my dream man/woman! A couple of stereotypes that we see over and over is the male Dominant who wants the robot s type to do what he wishes without putting in the work on his end to be a good leader, etc. All the bluster that follows about the fakers who don't just jump on his cock or jump to his words- he can't imagine why she is selective and not available to any penis that comes along. Another is the female submissive that thinks male Dominants automatically know what they're doing and there is a grand and lofty plan to everything, so she doesn't have to do a thing besides follow blindly- heaven forbid she watch out for herself. The women tend to want to do hero worship without the boring stuff of checking out the guy to see if he is indeed a hero. They swallow shit right and left and then wonder why they feel shitty about what they end up with. So if there's a code, then there would be a super duper way of solving issues. Then they want to know what that is, because they've been wracking their brains and it can't be the usual talking to each other - that's fucking hard work. There must be a shortcut because that's what they're in this for - the shortcut to their dreams come true. I can say one thing, my dream come true woudn't be a sit down talk with my mate. Been there, done that, it sucks, and hey- I do it anyway. Your topic has more to it than just my partial offering here, but it's all I have time for at the moment. For me, many of the issues I see here come down to entitlement. It's easier to see that theme with the people who want to be instantly served their partner of choice. Not so easy to see with the ones who flitter about wondering what's wrong with the other person that they didn't automatically divine that person's deepest wishes. I've about had it with that group. The ones who think that sitting back and doing nothing means the other person will suddenly learn to read minds or that they should somehow know exactly how to fulfill their partner. Wtf. Get off your ass and put some work into things, you might be surprised at what you get back. It's clever, the group that feels entitled to a mind reading partner will sometimes put in more time and effort beating around the bush with all kinds of things that could be taken care of with one fricking conversation.

lizi -> RE: Just TALK, gawds damns it! (10/5/2012 6:46:08 AM)
To follow up on Chattes theme of men and women communicating, it's a topic I've put a lot of time into analyzing and getting better at. I don't demonize men for being men, or women for being women, I just want to know how to facilitate good communication. There are real differences between the sexes, I figure it's good to know what they are. A very good book I read a couple of years ago written by someone with all of the training and he interviewed a large number of couples for his book, not a pop psych piece of fluff - which was about relationships - anyway, there are real differences between the sexes in how they communicate and what is effective in reaching them. I found one extremely effective technique from his book to use when talking to a guy is to keep my end of the conversation to 3 sentences or less. That's all men have room for at that moment in time before they report tuning out or feeling overwhelmed. Example: Her- "I feel forgotten. You don't seem to have time for sex these days. I'm wondering if there is something I am doing to push you away?" And so on. Another professional taught me (IRL) that it's ok for one partner to say I don't want to talk about that right now. But then that person has to give a day/time when they will discuss matters and it has to be ok'd by the other person. Person 1: "I dont want to talk about that right now, but I will discuss it with you tomorrow morning before leaving for work." Person 2 has the right to say if that time doesn't work, person 2 might say "I'd prefer to take care of this now." Person 1 may agree and say "Ok, but give me 2 hours of alone time first." Both people have equal right to want what they want, and at the heart of things is a compromise. Relationships are all compromise. I'm not sure why people dont' get that, if they did silly things woudln't pop up on these boards like clockwork.

LadyPact -> RE: Just TALK, gawds damns it! (10/5/2012 6:48:50 AM)
Gasp! Talk to each other? You mean, like regular human beings? But, that takes all of the magical fairy dust and specialness out of being Dom and sub!!!!! Which, is exactly where the problem lies. Half of the 'problems' that this board sees wouldn't even get brought up if people took the kink and titles out of it. How many times do you see the more seasoned members say, "What would you do if this was about your boyfriend, rather than your Dom?" Or, "If your friend/sister/whoever was having this problem, what would you tell her?" Grown men and women do the stupidest shit in the name of BDSM. They want it to solve all of the regular relationship issues in the name of kink. They figure they can cast common sense and relationship skills out of the window because being D/s solves it all. I wrote a thread sometime back that went to the theme of 'you didn't have to tell us you were new'. Generally, when somebody uses that line, some kind of nonsense is included in the original post. Try this for a month. Every original post that says a person is new to BDSM, judge for yourself how silly what they have to say is their "problem". Stuff that your average person could figure out using normal relationship skills. The number will scare you.

ChatteParfaitt -> RE: Just TALK, gawds damns it! (10/5/2012 6:52:07 AM)
All great advice, lizi. I bet you're like me, with numbers of people filling your inbox or answering machine asking for help. I especially liked the men can take three sentences before they tune out comment. So very true. Himself gets that glazed look in his eyes. As for Greedy's comment: quote: I seem to almost always be the one that has difficulties having talks. It's almost always been the male that has been the 'talker'. I personally have learned to seriously distrust "dominant" males who like to talk about their feelings. In my experience, it's always been a bait and switch. Maybe I've just been unlucky.

GreedyTop -> RE: Just TALK, gawds damns it! (10/5/2012 6:52:22 AM)
quote: I found one extremely effective technique from his book to use when talking to a guy is to keep my end of the conversation to 3 sentences or less. That's all men have room for at that moment in time before they report tuning out or feeling overwhelmed omg, this is me. does a quick genital check Nope, still an innie..... ETA: Chatte, I've found this aspect of myself to be true regardless of nilla or not. shrugs Maybe, since the majority of my friends until the past few years of my life have been male (including my formative years), I have been heavily influenced by them.

pyschosubmission -> RE: Just TALK, gawds damns it! (10/5/2012 7:01:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GreedyTop omg, this is me. does a quick genital check Nope, still an innie..... [sm=biggrin.gif] Also I liked what you were saying Lizi, about people wanting some kind of code they could follow to remove all that hard work nonsense. A much more eloquently written version of what I was wondering myself

ChatteParfaitt -> RE: Just TALK, gawds damns it! (10/5/2012 7:04:02 AM)
I think it has much to do with brain wiring, which does not always correspond to gender. My own brain wiring was predominantly male until I had children. Being a mother opened up my maternal side, something which I seriously needed to become a more well rounded person. (Oh, I'm not saying you need that, just that I needed that.) To this day, most of my close friends are male. So I would say I lean more toward the male model of wanting to talk less about these things, and for shorter periods of time. But of course I tell myself I am so much better at it, it makes up for it !!

lizi -> RE: Just TALK, gawds damns it! (10/5/2012 7:05:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt All great advice, lizi. I bet you're like me, with numbers of people filling your inbox or answering machine asking for help. I especially liked the men can take three sentences before they tune out comment. So very true. Himself gets that glazed look in his eyes. As for Greedy's comment: quote: I seem to almost always be the one that has difficulties having talks. It's almost always been the male that has been the 'talker'. I personally have learned to seriously distrust "dominant" males who like to talk about their feelings. In my experience, it's always been a bait and switch. Maybe I've just been unlucky. Yes, I could probably spend most of my time helping people out, and I like doing that actually. It's something I'm truly interested in....good communication. The 3 sentence technique is extremely effective. I'm a woman, I can unload everything and then go bit by bit. He can't. So ok, it takes us a bit longer to get through it, big deal. The outcome for me is better if I considerate of what works for him. Another thing I learned from that book was to consider your audience. Research shows that what matters to women is being cherished. Being loved for your own unique self. Wanting your loved one to know you as the one of a kind human being that you are. For men it's being respected. Looked up to and being told that you're doing a good job as a partner, father, provider. If you want to give something to a man....what is effective then? How about a woman? Just knowing how the genders think and what motivates them allows you to be a much better partner and to hand out honestly felt emotional currency in a form that goes zing right to the heart of the other person. The Dominant males being talkers...yeah, my experience with that has some jadedness to it. It seems like a technique that some develop in order to get what they want, not a true motivation. There are always exceptions.

GreedyTop -> RE: Just TALK, gawds damns it! (10/5/2012 7:09:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt I think it has much to do with brain wiring, which does not always correspond to gender. My own brain wiring was predominantly male until I had children. Being a mother opened up my maternal side, something which I seriously needed to become a more well rounded person. (Oh, I'm not saying you need that, just that I needed that.) To this day, most of my close friends are male. So I would say I lean more toward the male model of wanting to talk less about these things, and for shorter periods of time. But of course I tell myself I am so much better at it, it makes up for it !! that child bearing thing isn't an option anymore, but dammit, I have CATS!! lol I should clarify: until recently, I had only 2 females I truly counted as friends. Within the past 10 yrs (give or take) I have developed quite a few strong, and lasting, female friendships (and most of those are folks HERE). The MAJORITY of my friends (and the longest term ones) are male. ETA: quote: Another thing I learned from that book was to consider your audience. Research shows that what matters to women is being cherished. Being loved for your own unique self. Wanting your loved one to know you as the one of a kind human being that you are. For men it's being respected. Looked up to and being told that you're doing a good job as a partner, father, provider. If you want to give something to a man....what is effective then? How about a woman? Just knowing how the genders think and what motivates them allows you to be a much better partner and to hand out honestly felt emotional currency in a form that goes zing right to the heart of the other person. shit. now I am REALLY conflicted...THANKS, Lizi!! laughs

lizi -> RE: Just TALK, gawds damns it! (10/5/2012 7:09:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GreedyTop omg, this is me. does a quick genital check Nope, still an innie..... ETA: Chatte, I've found this aspect of myself to be true regardless of nilla or not. shrugs Maybe, since the majority of my friends until the past few years of my life have been male (including my formative years), I have been heavily influenced by them. Lol! Yes, I'm heavily influenced to male conversational/emotional patterns myself. I've been surrounded by them my whole life and they're more my preference to be around. I have a lot of the male thought process hallmarks, however, I've got the female multitasking and other things too. Maybe I'm interested in finding out more on communication in general because I've always noticed I didn't fit either group on the whole. Who knows.

lizi -> RE: Just TALK, gawds damns it! (10/5/2012 7:14:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pyschosubmission Also I liked what you were saying Lizi, about people wanting some kind of code they could follow to remove all that hard work nonsense. A much more eloquently written version of what I was wondering myself Watch and see Psycho if the entitlement thing about skirting the hard work in life doesn't come up over and over again. This has been my drum to beat for a while now. People seem to be so invested in feeling entitled to getting things just cuz they want them. Once you start looking for it then it shows up fucking everywhere. I've often wondered if things were always like this and I've just noticed, or it's a trend?

Rainwalker -> RE: Just TALK, gawds damns it! (10/5/2012 7:28:54 AM)
quote: I think it has much to do with brain wiring, which does not always correspond to gender. My own brain wiring was predominantly male until I had children. Being a mother opened up my maternal side, something which I seriously needed to become I think you pose a number of interesting foods for thought but that does not mean to say that I agree with or endorse them. As a man and submissive, (slaver by many people’s standards.) my experience differs greatly from most of your comment. It will be interesting to watch this thread develop.

Ninebelowzero -> RE: Just TALK, gawds damns it! (10/5/2012 7:30:45 AM)
This isn't just in a fet relationship though is it. The magic word is relationship. When a couple kink or not stop talking is when it goes south.

GreedyTop -> RE: Just TALK, gawds damns it! (10/5/2012 7:34:34 AM)
I agree, Niney, but it interesting to me how different folks communicate, and that so far it is shaping up to appear that upbringing/socialization could be a factor.

Ninebelowzero -> RE: Just TALK, gawds damns it! (10/5/2012 7:38:36 AM)
OKies GT I was speaking from bitter experience, the ex, a top, mother of my kid is what I was basing it on. We were a couple for 13 years. The breakdown in communication was the killer.

GreedyTop -> RE: Just TALK, gawds damns it! (10/5/2012 7:43:26 AM)
oh darlin, I do understand.. communication breakdown (dammit, now that song is stuck in my head... I spose it's better than auld lang syne...) has been a killer for me as well. But it's usually me that freezes, and the guy that overshares. Apparently that is contradictory to several studies, if I am understanding lizi correctly.

Rainwalker -> RE: Just TALK, gawds damns it! (10/5/2012 7:43:34 AM)
quote: is isn't just in a fet relationship though is it. The magic word is relationship. When a couple kink or not stop talking is when it goes south. Nine, excellent point but communication is not limited to relationships. Neither is talking or speaking more important than actively listening. Conversations are very like love affairs, they cannot be one sided. As an after thought...all to often people are talking without saying anything, just talking and talking to talk. Communication cannot be found there.

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