RE: Just TALK, gawds damns it! (Full Version)

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LaTigresse -> RE: Just TALK, gawds damns it! (10/5/2012 9:33:13 AM)

Another thing that I believe is vital......knowing WHAT to communicate. Knowing what really is important to THEM.

And that is going to vary from person to person, from relationship to relationship. What is important for me to communicate to G.D. or not, is not going to be the same list of goodies for everyone else. A lot of that list is going to be determined by past garbage, and trust.

Example......if I were to spend $100.00 on something frivolous for myself, I wouldn't even think to mention it to G.D. for a multitude of reasons.....unless it was something he would enjoy and/or find cool, also. For many other people, that would be a catastrophy of an omission.



Missokyst -> RE: Just TALK, gawds damns it! (10/5/2012 9:33:20 AM)

I think in the beginning of any relationship there is a phase of putting up the good face. In the honeymoon phase you agree to things you think they want, you eat the things they love, you try to mimic the person you think they want.
Later on as you become emotionally invested (the honeymoon phase is directed by the physical) people tend not to lose what might be a large part of their lives.
And after that when you are fully involved, physically, emotionally, mentally, there is a fear of rocking that boat. You are in peaceful, calm, beautiful waters and you don't want someone suddenly decide they need to pull out a reel and fish for 9 foot sturgeon to toss in the boat.
I really think there is a step missing in most relationships. I found I was most honest about what I needed sexually and emotionally IF I had first related to them as friends before we ended up together.



quote:

ORIGINAL: pyschosubmission

Well I've been here a wee while noo and I have to say, by far the most common advice has been,

"Just talk to him/her/them"

Which, in my opinion anyway, has always been quite prudent and in a lot of cases the most screamingly obvious thing to do. However, the question I really want to ask is, are we on the whole scared of talking to partners? Or is this a phenomenon more associated with new relationships, where people are still getting used to each other and can be scared of "rocking the boat" as it were?

Just a random Friday afternoon thought I had...




LadyHibiscus -> RE: Just TALK, gawds damns it! (10/5/2012 9:43:36 AM)

My family...are not communicators. NOT. Unconditional love, zero respect. I learned early that talking is dangerous. Even though not talking can be savage.

It takes practice, definitely, and there has to be a positive result somewhere down the line, or why do it? There has to be a match in communication NEEDS, also. I have a friend who is very polyamorous (two spouses, several partners, etc) and she is a "closure" person. Breakups have to be deconstructed, etc. Me, when we're over, we are OVER. Not hostile, just done.

I really don't need to talk about my feelings in detail, but perhaps that's because I have deep harmonious friendships with women? With men, I use small words. "I feel ignored, you know I'm insecure!". ;)

Setting boundaries, there's another minefield. Eeh.



lizi -> RE: Just TALK, gawds damns it! (10/5/2012 9:50:35 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

Another thing that I believe is vital......knowing WHAT to communicate. Knowing what really is important to THEM.

And that is going to vary from person to person, from relationship to relationship. What is important for me to communicate to G.D. or not, is not going to be the same list of goodies for everyone else. A lot of that list is going to be determined by past garbage, and trust.

Example......if I were to spend $100.00 on something frivolous for myself, I wouldn't even think to mention it to G.D. for a multitude of reasons.....unless it was something he would enjoy and/or find cool, also. For many other people, that would be a catastrophy of an omission.



I agree. Others find some things important that I don't spend any time at all thinking about, and I need to value them enough to know what they would like to know and offer that information to them out of respect to them and their place in my life.

Going the other way, if it's important to ME then it comes up regardless if I think they would care or not. I do take into account whether or not that person would find it important, if I think not, I scan myself to see how it's sitting with me. If the self scan comes back positive for myself, I talk.




GreedyTop -> RE: Just TALK, gawds damns it! (10/5/2012 9:52:45 AM)

my family are/were communicators (which is why it baffles me that I am not, within the bounds of relationships). But, Hibbie, I think you can attest to my willingness and ability to communicate to my girlfriends!

Wait, maybe I just haven't considered my former S.O.s enough as friends?

who the fuck knows.


I'm going to bed now.

fucking work schedule....



LadyHibiscus -> RE: Just TALK, gawds damns it! (10/5/2012 9:57:16 AM)

Yes, LaT, communication doesn't have to mean sharing every random thought or feeling. If we're living on a budget, yeah, please give me a heads up that you bought something. Or always if it's a major purchase. (The Lawnmower Of My Shame is in our garage...cannot BELIEVE my dad some days).

There's so much talk of negotiations for scenes, and checklists and guidelines, what about negotiating for your life?

Skipped over steps, as Missokyst says.



culareD -> RE: Just TALK, gawds damns it! (10/5/2012 10:19:35 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse


Part of the human condition is to take the path of least resistance. If a person has been conditioned, by negative and painful reactions, to truthful and sensitive communicating, they most generally will stop making any effort.



I grew up with the understanding that it was better to be seen and not heard. The consequence of this dynamic led to several "bad" relationships where I (thought) I had no voice and accepted it as "okay". Ultimately, I ended up being (physically) beat up pretty badly, as I started to learn how to be assertive...or at least have some voice. From that experience, I sought help in trying to understand just who the hell I was and what I might be doing wrong. What I learned is that I am important, and what I do say can matter.

I STILL struggle at times with wanting to go back to that "path of least resistance". At age 40 something...I've had to relearn what communication should be, and I think I might finally understand it to be a good thing. I usually have to remind myself, though, that my opinion (or what I might have to say) is of value regardless of whether the masses agree or not.

Great thread...



LadyHibiscus -> RE: Just TALK, gawds damns it! (10/5/2012 10:23:55 AM)

Who else is chuckling at the lack of male participation in this thread?



Rainwalker -> RE: Just TALK, gawds damns it! (10/5/2012 10:40:58 AM)

quote:

Who else is chuckling at the lack of male participation in this thread?


There doesn’t have to be a lack of male participation and certainly there is but it’s not because men do not know how to read write or take part in actively listening.



LadyHibiscus -> RE: Just TALK, gawds damns it! (10/5/2012 10:44:31 AM)

You read a lot into posts, Rainwalker.



ARIES83 -> RE: Just TALK, gawds damns it! (10/5/2012 10:50:21 AM)

Hey, we're not omnipresent Hib.
I'm a bit bipolar with communication, or rather
I have a double standard.
When it comes to a sub, I am relentless, I want
to know what she thinks, feels... Every little
facet. I probe out her dreams, fantasies, opinions
everything that goes on in her head.
When it comes to me though... I am honest to a
fault but I do have a lot of things I will not talk
about... It's just that I don't dump my
insecurities (yes i have them), doubts or
problems on other people, its not that I'm
ashamed of those things, but who I am really
needs to deal with them myself.

I think a lot of men are similar.

And typical stereotype here, I can't talk about
emotions I'm not comfortable with.
Luckily I don't have many of those things. [8D]

-Aries



LaTigresse -> RE: Just TALK, gawds damns it! (10/5/2012 10:56:28 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: culareD


quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse


Part of the human condition is to take the path of least resistance. If a person has been conditioned, by negative and painful reactions, to truthful and sensitive communicating, they most generally will stop making any effort.



I grew up with the understanding that it was better to be seen and not heard. The consequence of this dynamic led to several "bad" relationships where I (thought) I had no voice and accepted it as "okay". Ultimately, I ended up being (physically) beat up pretty badly, as I started to learn how to be assertive...or at least have some voice. From that experience, I sought help in trying to understand just who the hell I was and what I might be doing wrong. What I learned is that I am important, and what I do say can matter.

I STILL struggle at times with wanting to go back to that "path of least resistance". At age 40 something...I've had to relearn what communication should be, and I think I might finally understand it to be a good thing. I usually have to remind myself, though, that my opinion (or what I might have to say) is of value regardless of whether the masses agree or not.

Great thread...


Ohhhhh, don't feel bad! I turned 50 this year and NOT talking is my default mode. (believe it or not) If I have a problem, usually I just deal. If I fuck something up, I fix it. In SOME parts of my life, that shit is appreciated by the people around me. The problem tends to be when, the fix really wasn't a full on fix and there is some sort of ripple effect that ends up catching someone by surprise.........or, more often, they just want to feel needed.



CRYPTICLXVI -> RE: Just TALK, gawds damns it! (10/5/2012 10:57:14 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rainwalker

quote:

Who else is chuckling at the lack of male participation in this thread?


There doesn’t have to be a lack of male participation and certainly there is but it’s not because men do not know how to read write or take part in actively listening.


Huh? Did you say something?



RemoteUser -> RE: Just TALK, gawds damns it! (10/5/2012 11:35:33 AM)

I'm the type that wants to know just about everything. As a result, I do more talking than I need to sometimes (and have been known to say all the wrong things, with all the right intentions). I have come to understand, though, that I don't need to ask (or know) everything, and that sometimes, the best way to get an answer is to wait for the other person to be ready to respond.

That's one of the better changes I've undergone in recent years, and those who know me from before have probably noticed it in the way my posting style has changed.

For the OP: people who talk things out, will always do better than those who don't. Fear keeps people from talking, and the root of that fear can lie in many different places (some justifiable, some not). Until that fear is overcome, the communication isn't going to happen, for better or worse.

For anyone who has a hard time talking, but wants to talk, I would ask them to figure out what keeps them from talking; then ask them what is more important than the thing that stops them. Establishing and/or acknowledging priorities builds confidence. A major block might be, did I do something wrong/do I have to own up to it? Well? Do you? What will happen if you don't? Taking responsibility might motivate one person to speak, and make another person shut up. It's on the person to figure that out, and I'm sure that's what has prompted the type of posts that inspire the advice you referred to.

(I doubt I contributed anything profound here, but Hib makes a point that the guys should chime in, too.)



LadyHibiscus -> RE: Just TALK, gawds damns it! (10/5/2012 11:46:10 AM)

RU reminds me that I wanted to add that discussions donqt have to be contentious, or reserved for when there's a problem. Openness takes practice, and shouldn't be reserved for special occasions.

Nor should we go changing our personalities. I am not advocating that we all become touchyfeely sensitive, just that we speak up when we need to.



littlewonder -> RE: Just TALK, gawds damns it! (10/5/2012 12:11:30 PM)

If I can't talk to Master about anything then our relationship is doomed. For me if I can't talk to him that's a HUGE red flag that my relationship is doomed. I can't imagine not being able to talk to him. It would destroy our trust in one another and really...he is my best friend. There is no one else on the entire planet that I can talk to about anything.

When I hear that people won't talk to their own partner I can tell you that their relationship will be over in days, a few weeks at the most.



LadyHibiscus -> RE: Just TALK, gawds damns it! (10/5/2012 12:41:04 PM)

Or else they'll be together forever, LW...



sexyred1 -> RE: Just TALK, gawds damns it! (10/5/2012 12:55:39 PM)

Not being able to communicate to a partner is deadly.

I have been with two men in my life who were unable to communicate their feelings AND uncomfortable with me communicating my feelings or needs or desires or anything that was not just "fun".

Both those relationships are over now because I decided I no longer wanted to walk on eggshells with a partner.

If you do not want to listen to me, or talk about any life matters, then you are no longer having sex with me. My rules moving forward.



BitaTruble -> RE: Just TALK, gawds damns it! (10/5/2012 1:11:16 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt

I personally have learned to seriously distrust "dominant" males who like to talk about their feelings. In my experience, it's always been a bait and switch. Maybe I've just been unlucky.


I've noticed that, too. Gawds, Peter was constantly wanting to talk about feelings. I don't mind it in small doses but when it's a constant theme, yeah, it's a problem.

I think that's why I enjoy talking to himself.
So, I'll say something like:

"How do you feel about XYZ."

"It's okay. What's for dinner?"

"Chicken. Well, does it move you or affect you in some way?"

"I don't know, Celeste. Not really. If we have potatos make those with the chicken. I don't want rice tonight."

"Okay. Well, if XYZ were to happen would it make you sad?"

"GIRL, go make my damn dinner. I'm hungry and your ass is going to be sad if you don't bring me food!"

Standard 'feelings' convo.

[:D]



littlewonder -> RE: Just TALK, gawds damns it! (10/5/2012 1:45:20 PM)

I dunno. Master talks about his feelings all the time. I actually enjoy it because he's being honest with me and it tells me he's human with human emotions that he doesn't need to hide with me. The ones who hide their emotions are the ones that think that big boys don't cry, doms are cold and heartless, etc....If I can't connect with my partner's emotions then they are not the one for me.

And LadyHibiscus, the only reason I ever see two people stay together without any communication at all were the type who were only married for the children or money and slept in separate bedrooms and were just passing ships in the night but as soon as the children or money was gone, so were they.



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