RE: reactions to vice presidential debate (Full Version)

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DesideriScuri -> RE: reactions to vice presidential debate (10/12/2012 1:47:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
quote:

ORIGINAL: ElizabethAnne
Ohhh....ok; so you're saying we shouldn't have gone after Al Queda; We should have kept our tails between our legs, and done nothing. Got it; Now that's showing real strength.

We shouldnt have armed, funded, and created it in the first place.
But we should have went after al-queda where the 9/11 guys were from, rather than where al-queda wasn't.


Um al Qaeda was in Afghanistan. Not sure why we'd go into Saudi Arabia when they were in Afghanistan. But, I'm sure you have a brilliant thesis for that.

The big problem with the "War on Terror," is that there is no specific "Country" or anything. Hezbollah and Hamas have been labelled terrorist organizations. Where are they? The are all over the place. We can't go into one nation and and end them because they aren't one nation's. That was one of the complaints of the Democrats in early/mid 00's, I believe. And, they were right. But, continuing down that same path isn't smart either.

The Democrats have hated the wars since we started them. When the Democrats took over the Legislature, did they stop the wars? Did they pass any bills that stated that funding was going to be drawn down, so we'd better draw down our troops and gtfo? Nope. They kept things going. They kept the money flowing. Why? Political pressures. They didn't want to look like they weren't supporting our troops. You can even claim that they knew Bush would veto it, but then you could always take a over-rule vote. But, they didn't.

And, when they had their glorious super majorities, did they then end the wars? Nope. They did not. It was simply more of the same.



mnottertail -> RE: reactions to vice presidential debate (10/12/2012 1:52:19 PM)

in the context of 9/11 Iraq and al-queda was not what to go after, and that was the discussion, try to keep up, .post 88, 94 and my response.

al queda is in pakistan....they have pretty much been so all along since we invaded afghanistan and they are in those mountains to the east where they can cross borders at will.

It ain't a brilliant thesis, but it does have the attribute of being real.



DesideriScuri -> RE: reactions to vice presidential debate (10/12/2012 2:08:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
in the context of 9/11 Iraq and al-queda was not what to go after, and that was the discussion, try to keep up, .post 88, 94 and my response.
al queda is in pakistan....they have pretty much been so all along since we invaded afghanistan and they are in those mountains to the east where they can cross borders at will.
It ain't a brilliant thesis, but it does have the attribute of being real.


I see. So, now you're stating that we should have invaded Pakistan. Got it. Don't agree, but, I'm reading you loud and clear.

And, so we're clear, I was arguing for bringing all our troops home prior to 2008. We were no longer doing what we said we were going to do, and there were no WMD's in Iraq. Thus, we had no real reason to be in either country at that time. About the only things I supported Obama on were ending the wars. Wish he'd have done both of them.



Yachtie -> RE: reactions to vice presidential debate (10/12/2012 2:12:46 PM)

Joe misspeaks, again?

Vice President Joe Biden accused Rep. Paul Ryan of putting two wars on the �credit card,� and then suggested he voted against the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq

Then Sen. Biden voted for the Afghanistan resolution on Sept. 14, 2001 which authorized “the use of United States Armed Forces against those responsible for the recent attacks launched against the United States.”

And on Oct. 11, 2002, Biden voted for a resolution authorizing unilateral military action in Iraq, according to the Washington Post.



ElizabethAnne -> RE: reactions to vice presidential debate (10/12/2012 2:19:55 PM)

nahhh......O'bama apologized. ;) Guess that has to suffice.



DomKen -> RE: reactions to vice presidential debate (10/12/2012 2:22:07 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ElizabethAnne

You seriously are justifying O'bama in this??? An Ambassador and three other in the embassy murdered, repeated requests denied; And it's ok because not every request for additional support goes across his desk. That is your stance?? Really?

No, can you not read?

The claim was that Biden and Obama lied when they said they had no knowledge of a request from anyone for more security. Which is likely true as such a request is far below the President's paygrde.



mnottertail -> RE: reactions to vice presidential debate (10/12/2012 2:24:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
in the context of 9/11 Iraq and al-queda was not what to go after, and that was the discussion, try to keep up, .post 88, 94 and my response.
al queda is in pakistan....they have pretty much been so all along since we invaded afghanistan and they are in those mountains to the east where they can cross borders at will.
It ain't a brilliant thesis, but it does have the attribute of being real.


I see. So, now you're stating that we should have invaded Pakistan. Got it. Don't agree, but, I'm reading you loud and clear.

And, so we're clear, I was arguing for bringing all our troops home prior to 2008. We were no longer doing what we said we were going to do, and there were no WMD's in Iraq. Thus, we had no real reason to be in either country at that time. About the only things I supported Obama on were ending the wars. Wish he'd have done both of them.


Then we are in proper juxtaposition with where I am, save that we shouldnt ever have ventured into Iraq for any reason.

And even at that we shouldn't have INVADED pakistan, just start nuking the hills and working our way to flatland unless they gave these people up (OBL and the 23 or so other high level al-Queda we have droned out of existance so far).


Would save us nearly every trouble plaguing us to this day (and many yet to come).



ElizabethAnne -> RE: reactions to vice presidential debate (10/12/2012 2:35:43 PM)

So Regardless of the turmoil and uprising in Libya, hell all over the middle east, and he couldn't be concerned about the security of the embassies in that area, and he didn't know there was an issue, because it was well below his paygrade. Ok, neeeever mind.

Silly me, I thought the President of the US was Commander in Chief; and it is because of his paygrade the buck stops with him, he is ultimately responsible for the safety of American citizens.



mnottertail -> RE: reactions to vice presidential debate (10/12/2012 2:37:45 PM)

Yes, it is pretty silly, when one considers that W should have known that there were no WMD in Iraq after George Tenet personally briefed him.



Yachtie -> RE: reactions to vice presidential debate (10/12/2012 2:38:14 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ElizabethAnne

So Regardless of the turmoil and uprising in Libya, hell all over the middle east, and he couldn't be concerned about the security of the embassies in that area, and he didn't know there was an issue, because it was well below his paygrade. Ok, neeeever mind.


If it's not printed on his golf scorecard, how would he know?





mnottertail -> RE: reactions to vice presidential debate (10/12/2012 2:47:03 PM)

I would think that if it didn't get felched from Rush's ass, nobody on the right would know anything.



ElizabethAnne -> RE: reactions to vice presidential debate (10/12/2012 4:13:07 PM)

When all else fails bring up W. ;)



subrob1967 -> RE: reactions to vice presidential debate (10/12/2012 4:29:52 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ElizabethAnne

So Regardless of the turmoil and uprising in Libya, hell all over the middle east, and he couldn't be concerned about the security of the embassies in that area, and he didn't know there was an issue, because it was well below his paygrade. Ok, neeeever mind.

Silly me, I thought the President of the US was Commander in Chief; and it is because of his paygrade the buck stops with him, he is ultimately responsible for the safety of American citizens.


Cmon Elizabeth you know Obama doesn't like having his daily brief read to him, or actually meeting with his intelligence advisors... He prefers to ignore them in the residence while eating his egg white omelette Michelle ordered for him from their personal Chef.

But remember, the rich aren't paying their fair share, Michelle has had only one good vacation so far this year.



DomKen -> RE: reactions to vice presidential debate (10/12/2012 4:44:09 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ElizabethAnne

So Regardless of the turmoil and uprising in Libya, hell all over the middle east, and he couldn't be concerned about the security of the embassies in that area, and he didn't know there was an issue, because it was well below his paygrade. Ok, neeeever mind.

Silly me, I thought the President of the US was Commander in Chief; and it is because of his paygrade the buck stops with him, he is ultimately responsible for the safety of American citizens.

Do you have any concept of the number of issues on the President's desk on any given day? Do you really think the President sees every request for more guards at an embassy? What vital national security issue, diplomatic contact, domestic trade deal or natural disaster response should be ignored while the President deals with a request that should be handled by a minor subordinate in the State Department?

You might have a point if the discussion was about the President being 'responsible' for the failure but the discussion is whether Biden lied about he and the President not knowing about the request.

BTW try quoting the post you respond to. It makes following a thread easier and it makes clear what the topic under discussion is.



LookieNoNookie -> RE: reactions to vice presidential debate (10/12/2012 6:08:51 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Substance - Biden

Style - Ryan


I didn't watch enough to be able to pick (fell asleep) but, from what I saw, Biden has been around the block, smooth, carefree....capable. Another day on the job for him....Old guard. Solid.

Ryan...for a young buck....I think he did better than I could have imagined. First time on a national stage and he held his own.

Not sure who won, probably unfair to put him head to head considering Biden's time and history but, for the new kid on the block, I'd have to say Ryan did ok.



DaddySatyr -> RE: reactions to vice presidential debate (10/12/2012 6:23:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ElizabethAnne

When all else fails bring up W. ;)


After that comes the "racist" insult ... wait for it ... wait for it ...



Peace and comfort,



Michael



cloudboy -> RE: reactions to vice presidential debate (10/12/2012 6:45:34 PM)

If this is the lone criticism of Obama's foreign policy, its actually a back handed compliment.

The NYT had a great profile of the fallen diplomat. He was regarded as rare b/c he liked to go native as much as possible, spending as much time with his host country's people as possible, trying to understand them. He was regarded, too, as an exceptional listener. Its a cruel irony that an American who loved the Arab-Middle East people was targeted for assassination. Perpetrators of violence often make matters worse by not exercising restraint or understanding the nature of their individual target.

The group behind the assassination is also regarded as a problem within Libya itself.

As for bringing up BUSH, he did so much damage to the US that it will take over a decade to undo the damage. What's most disturbing is how all you Bush supporters who voted for him 2x seem so unevolved.



cloudboy -> RE: reactions to vice presidential debate (10/12/2012 6:50:15 PM)

quote:

And even at that we shouldn't have INVADED pakistan, just start nuking the hills and working our way to flatland unless they gave these people up (OBL and the 23 or so other high level al-Queda we have droned out of existance so far).


I'm not following you here. What are you trying to say? I'm too dense to get it, or I feel like I am reading you wrongly.



slvemike4u -> RE: reactions to vice presidential debate (10/12/2012 7:19:48 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

Ryan lost...

Wow,the law of broken clocks strikes again [:)]



DesideriScuri -> RE: reactions to vice presidential debate (10/12/2012 8:08:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u
quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967
Ryan lost...

Wow,the law of broken clocks strikes again [:)]


But, mike, what happens when everything goes digital?



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