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RE: reactions to vice presidential debate - 10/12/2012 1:47:20 PM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
quote:

ORIGINAL: ElizabethAnne
Ohhh....ok; so you're saying we shouldn't have gone after Al Queda; We should have kept our tails between our legs, and done nothing. Got it; Now that's showing real strength.

We shouldnt have armed, funded, and created it in the first place.
But we should have went after al-queda where the 9/11 guys were from, rather than where al-queda wasn't.


Um al Qaeda was in Afghanistan. Not sure why we'd go into Saudi Arabia when they were in Afghanistan. But, I'm sure you have a brilliant thesis for that.

The big problem with the "War on Terror," is that there is no specific "Country" or anything. Hezbollah and Hamas have been labelled terrorist organizations. Where are they? The are all over the place. We can't go into one nation and and end them because they aren't one nation's. That was one of the complaints of the Democrats in early/mid 00's, I believe. And, they were right. But, continuing down that same path isn't smart either.

The Democrats have hated the wars since we started them. When the Democrats took over the Legislature, did they stop the wars? Did they pass any bills that stated that funding was going to be drawn down, so we'd better draw down our troops and gtfo? Nope. They kept things going. They kept the money flowing. Why? Political pressures. They didn't want to look like they weren't supporting our troops. You can even claim that they knew Bush would veto it, but then you could always take a over-rule vote. But, they didn't.

And, when they had their glorious super majorities, did they then end the wars? Nope. They did not. It was simply more of the same.

_____________________________

What I support:

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  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
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  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

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Profile   Post #: 101
RE: reactions to vice presidential debate - 10/12/2012 1:52:19 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		in the context of 9/11 Iraq and al-queda was not what to go after, and that was the discussion, try to keep up, .post 88, 94 and my response.

al queda is in pakistan....they have pretty much been so all along since we invaded afghanistan and they are in those mountains to the east where they can cross borders at will.

It ain't a brilliant thesis, but it does have the attribute of being real.

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 10/12/2012 1:57:34 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 102
RE: reactions to vice presidential debate - 10/12/2012 2:08:01 PM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
in the context of 9/11 Iraq and al-queda was not what to go after, and that was the discussion, try to keep up, .post 88, 94 and my response.
al queda is in pakistan....they have pretty much been so all along since we invaded afghanistan and they are in those mountains to the east where they can cross borders at will.
It ain't a brilliant thesis, but it does have the attribute of being real.


I see. So, now you're stating that we should have invaded Pakistan. Got it. Don't agree, but, I'm reading you loud and clear.

And, so we're clear, I was arguing for bringing all our troops home prior to 2008. We were no longer doing what we said we were going to do, and there were no WMD's in Iraq. Thus, we had no real reason to be in either country at that time. About the only things I supported Obama on were ending the wars. Wish he'd have done both of them.

_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 103
RE: reactions to vice presidential debate - 10/12/2012 2:12:46 PM   
Yachtie


Posts: 3593
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline 		Joe misspeaks, again?

Vice President Joe Biden accused Rep. Paul Ryan of putting two wars on the �credit card,� and then suggested he voted against the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq

Then Sen. Biden voted for the Afghanistan resolution on Sept. 14, 2001 which authorized “the use of United States Armed Forces against those responsible for the recent attacks launched against the United States.”

And on Oct. 11, 2002, Biden voted for a resolution authorizing unilateral military action in Iraq, according to the Washington Post.

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

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Profile   Post #: 104
RE: reactions to vice presidential debate - 10/12/2012 2:19:55 PM   
ElizabethAnne


Posts: 1751
Status: offline 		nahhh......O'bama apologized. ;) Guess that has to suffice.

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Profile   Post #: 105
RE: reactions to vice presidential debate - 10/12/2012 2:22:07 PM   
DomKen


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From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ElizabethAnne

You seriously are justifying O'bama in this??? An Ambassador and three other in the embassy murdered, repeated requests denied; And it's ok because not every request for additional support goes across his desk. That is your stance?? Really?

No, can you not read?

The claim was that Biden and Obama lied when they said they had no knowledge of a request from anyone for more security. Which is likely true as such a request is far below the President's paygrde.

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Profile   Post #: 106
RE: reactions to vice presidential debate - 10/12/2012 2:24:57 PM   
mnottertail


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
in the context of 9/11 Iraq and al-queda was not what to go after, and that was the discussion, try to keep up, .post 88, 94 and my response.
al queda is in pakistan....they have pretty much been so all along since we invaded afghanistan and they are in those mountains to the east where they can cross borders at will.
It ain't a brilliant thesis, but it does have the attribute of being real.


I see. So, now you're stating that we should have invaded Pakistan. Got it. Don't agree, but, I'm reading you loud and clear.

And, so we're clear, I was arguing for bringing all our troops home prior to 2008. We were no longer doing what we said we were going to do, and there were no WMD's in Iraq. Thus, we had no real reason to be in either country at that time. About the only things I supported Obama on were ending the wars. Wish he'd have done both of them.


Then we are in proper juxtaposition with where I am, save that we shouldnt ever have ventured into Iraq for any reason.

And even at that we shouldn't have INVADED pakistan, just start nuking the hills and working our way to flatland unless they gave these people up (OBL and the 23 or so other high level al-Queda we have droned out of existance so far).


Would save us nearly every trouble plaguing us to this day (and many yet to come).

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 10/12/2012 2:28:59 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 107
RE: reactions to vice presidential debate - 10/12/2012 2:35:43 PM   
ElizabethAnne


Posts: 1751
Status: offline 		So Regardless of the turmoil and uprising in Libya, hell all over the middle east, and he couldn't be concerned about the security of the embassies in that area, and he didn't know there was an issue, because it was well below his paygrade. Ok, neeeever mind.

Silly me, I thought the President of the US was Commander in Chief; and it is because of his paygrade the buck stops with him, he is ultimately responsible for the safety of American citizens.

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Profile   Post #: 108
RE: reactions to vice presidential debate - 10/12/2012 2:37:45 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Yes, it is pretty silly, when one considers that W should have known that there were no WMD in Iraq after George Tenet personally briefed him.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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Profile   Post #: 109
RE: reactions to vice presidential debate - 10/12/2012 2:38:14 PM   
Yachtie


Posts: 3593
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ElizabethAnne

So Regardless of the turmoil and uprising in Libya, hell all over the middle east, and he couldn't be concerned about the security of the embassies in that area, and he didn't know there was an issue, because it was well below his paygrade. Ok, neeeever mind.


If it's not printed on his golf scorecard, how would he know?




_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to ElizabethAnne)
Profile   Post #: 110
RE: reactions to vice presidential debate - 10/12/2012 2:47:03 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		I would think that if it didn't get felched from Rush's ass, nobody on the right would know anything.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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Profile   Post #: 111
RE: reactions to vice presidential debate - 10/12/2012 4:13:07 PM   
ElizabethAnne


Posts: 1751
Status: offline 		When all else fails bring up W. ;)

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Profile   Post #: 112
RE: reactions to vice presidential debate - 10/12/2012 4:29:52 PM   
subrob1967


Posts: 4591
Joined: 9/13/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ElizabethAnne

So Regardless of the turmoil and uprising in Libya, hell all over the middle east, and he couldn't be concerned about the security of the embassies in that area, and he didn't know there was an issue, because it was well below his paygrade. Ok, neeeever mind.

Silly me, I thought the President of the US was Commander in Chief; and it is because of his paygrade the buck stops with him, he is ultimately responsible for the safety of American citizens.


Cmon Elizabeth you know Obama doesn't like having his daily brief read to him, or actually meeting with his intelligence advisors... He prefers to ignore them in the residence while eating his egg white omelette Michelle ordered for him from their personal Chef.

But remember, the rich aren't paying their fair share, Michelle has had only one good vacation so far this year.

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Profile   Post #: 113
RE: reactions to vice presidential debate - 10/12/2012 4:44:09 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ElizabethAnne

So Regardless of the turmoil and uprising in Libya, hell all over the middle east, and he couldn't be concerned about the security of the embassies in that area, and he didn't know there was an issue, because it was well below his paygrade. Ok, neeeever mind.

Silly me, I thought the President of the US was Commander in Chief; and it is because of his paygrade the buck stops with him, he is ultimately responsible for the safety of American citizens.

Do you have any concept of the number of issues on the President's desk on any given day? Do you really think the President sees every request for more guards at an embassy? What vital national security issue, diplomatic contact, domestic trade deal or natural disaster response should be ignored while the President deals with a request that should be handled by a minor subordinate in the State Department?

You might have a point if the discussion was about the President being 'responsible' for the failure but the discussion is whether Biden lied about he and the President not knowing about the request.

BTW try quoting the post you respond to. It makes following a thread easier and it makes clear what the topic under discussion is.

(in reply to ElizabethAnne)
Profile   Post #: 114
RE: reactions to vice presidential debate - 10/12/2012 6:08:51 PM   
LookieNoNookie


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Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Substance - Biden

Style - Ryan


I didn't watch enough to be able to pick (fell asleep) but, from what I saw, Biden has been around the block, smooth, carefree....capable. Another day on the job for him....Old guard. Solid.

Ryan...for a young buck....I think he did better than I could have imagined. First time on a national stage and he held his own.

Not sure who won, probably unfair to put him head to head considering Biden's time and history but, for the new kid on the block, I'd have to say Ryan did ok.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 115
RE: reactions to vice presidential debate - 10/12/2012 6:23:52 PM   
DaddySatyr


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Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ElizabethAnne

When all else fails bring up W. ;)


After that comes the "racist" insult ... wait for it ... wait for it ...



Peace and comfort,



Michael

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Profile   Post #: 116
RE: reactions to vice presidential debate - 10/12/2012 6:45:34 PM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline 		If this is the lone criticism of Obama's foreign policy, its actually a back handed compliment.

The NYT had a great profile of the fallen diplomat. He was regarded as rare b/c he liked to go native as much as possible, spending as much time with his host country's people as possible, trying to understand them. He was regarded, too, as an exceptional listener. Its a cruel irony that an American who loved the Arab-Middle East people was targeted for assassination. Perpetrators of violence often make matters worse by not exercising restraint or understanding the nature of their individual target.

The group behind the assassination is also regarded as a problem within Libya itself.

As for bringing up BUSH, he did so much damage to the US that it will take over a decade to undo the damage. What's most disturbing is how all you Bush supporters who voted for him 2x seem so unevolved.

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 10/12/2012 6:48:35 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 117
RE: reactions to vice presidential debate - 10/12/2012 6:50:15 PM   
cloudboy


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Joined: 12/14/2005
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quote:

And even at that we shouldn't have INVADED pakistan, just start nuking the hills and working our way to flatland unless they gave these people up (OBL and the 23 or so other high level al-Queda we have droned out of existance so far).


I'm not following you here. What are you trying to say? I'm too dense to get it, or I feel like I am reading you wrongly.

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Profile   Post #: 118
RE: reactions to vice presidential debate - 10/12/2012 7:19:48 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

Ryan lost...

Wow,the law of broken clocks strikes again

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Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


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Profile   Post #: 119
RE: reactions to vice presidential debate - 10/12/2012 8:08:13 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u
quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967
Ryan lost...

Wow,the law of broken clocks strikes again


But, mike, what happens when everything goes digital?

_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 120
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