Bullying?

Bullying? (Full Version)

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JstAnotherSub -> Bullying? (10/13/2012 2:54:24 PM)
I think I must be mean, deep down inside, because after reading all this about the girl who killed her self, I am sickened. Not sickened because she was "bullied", but because it seems that everyone is placing the blame everywhere except where it belongs, which is on the shoulders of the girl her self. You flash folks on line, and you are amazed that the pics end up everywhere? You screw a guy who is taken, and you are amazed that others get upset? I am sad that a family has gone through the pain of the loss of a child, I can not even imagine the sadness that they feel, but, rather than using this to stop "bullying", why not use it to teach young girls to not make stupid choices, and if they do, they need to take responsibility for the dumbass choices they make, and move on. Also, who made it possible for the child to be online, with a cam, when she was in the 8th grade, where she was able to flash her boobs to the world? I bet she did no t have the money to pay the bills for such luxuries. Bullying is wrong. So is trying to blame others for the choices, that is right I SAID CHOICES, that we make in our own lives. Feel free to point out the wrongness in my logic here, I am really hoping someone can do that, because I am sad that I am not actually more sad about this loss of a precious life.

Kaliko -> RE: Bullying? (10/13/2012 3:32:53 PM)
I've been sitting here for a good five minutes, and I honestly don't even know where to start. I sat with a boy in a classroom after school one day in 9th grade. We sat in separate desks, held hands, and talked. The next day, he told everyone I blew him. I had a reputation, at 13 years old, and the cruelty was severe enough that I ate lunch in the library, took the late bus home to avoid my regular stop, failed two classes, and changed schools at the end of the year. To this day, my mother (and father, at the time) still don't know why I begged so hard to change schools. There's more I went through, both before that and after...much more, but I won't get into it. What I will get into is how much worse it would have been in the world where the internet exists. It's not Facebook - if it's not Facebook, it would be MySpace, or something else. The medium, though, that allows for mass bullying in a way that these harassers don't even need to see the faces of their victims, makes this world that our children live in now unlike any before. Though I don't excuse it, I can understand it...that a young, naive girl would flash her body for positive attention. I remember when my friend and I dressed as "sluts" for Halloween one year as girls. How fucking stupid, right? Asking for trouble, right? I agree, in hindsight, but at the time...Jesus, we were just stupid kids realizing we could be sexy and not knowing what to do with it. Thank God a police officer had the wise sense to overstep his bounds and order us to go home and change. But now..with the internet and instant photos and the ability to share pictures worldwide....there is no ability to "go home and change." Fuck up...fuck up just once...and it follows a kid forever. If you have truly never done anything wrong...if you've never done anything humiliating, or in poor judgment, or in a time and place that you were feeling especially needy and not making wise choices, then go ahead and judge a kid for fucking up. But in my opinion, the time of life when we should be able to fuck up is when we are kids. There is no learning curve anymore. The pressure is so heavy as sexuality pervades children's lives at an earlier age. The actions of kids are magnified by social media websites. Bullies gain support from behind a screen. And the lives of children are ruined because of it. Kids should be allowed to make mistakes, Goddammit.

dcnovice -> RE: Bullying? (10/13/2012 3:53:03 PM)
FR First off, you feel what you feel. Don't diss yourself because of it. That said, two things may be worth pondering: (a) There's a reason 8th-graders can't drive, vote, serve in the military, or take out mortgages. Their brains are still forming, their hormones are surging, and their choices are, to put it mildly, far from perfect. Expecting teens to take adult-style "responsibility for the dumbass choices they make" may be psychologically or even biologically unrealistic. (b) The news stories I read mentioned that Amanda Todd was being treated for major depression and having trouble with drugs and alcohol. They can scramble a brain, even an adult's, with stunning speed and dire effect. * * * You raise a good point about who, if anyone, was monitoring her online life. I can't speak to that real directly, since my teen years predated the Web and I've never been a parent. I do, though, know good, engaged parents who find it tough to police their kids' Internet activity completely. Not making excuses; just stating what may be a reality of our wired times. * * * In Darkness Visible, his masterly account of dealing with depression, William Styron makes a point that may bear repeating: "[T]he pain of severe depression [or, I suspect, severe bullying] is quite unimaginable to those who have not suffered it, and it kills in many instances beause its anguish can no longer be borne, The prevention of suicides will continue to be hindered until there is a general awareness of the nature of this pain. Through the healing process of time--and through medical interventions or hospitalization in many cases--most people survive depression, which may be its only blessing; but to the tragic legion who are compelled to destroy themselves there should be no more reproof attached than to the victims of terminal cancer."

lizi -> RE: Bullying? (10/13/2012 4:00:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub I think I must be mean, deep down inside, because after reading all this about the girl who killed her self, I am sickened. Not sickened because she was "bullied", but because it seems that everyone is placing the blame everywhere except where it belongs, which is on the shoulders of the girl her self. You flash folks on line, and you are amazed that the pics end up everywhere? You screw a guy who is taken, and you are amazed that others get upset? I am sad that a family has gone through the pain of the loss of a child, I can not even imagine the sadness that they feel, but, rather than using this to stop "bullying", why not use it to teach young girls to not make stupid choices, and if they do, they need to take responsibility for the dumbass choices they make, and move on. Also, who made it possible for the child to be online, with a cam, when she was in the 8th grade, where she was able to flash her boobs to the world? I bet she did no t have the money to pay the bills for such luxuries. Bullying is wrong. So is trying to blame others for the choices, that is right I SAID CHOICES, that we make in our own lives. Feel free to point out the wrongness in my logic here, I am really hoping someone can do that, because I am sad that I am not actually more sad about this loss of a precious life. I also had to come back to this because I needed to gather my thoughts... As a child, you don't have the capability of knowing that what you do stays with you forever. The parts of your brain that assess risk aren't even mature yet, that happens around 20 or so, which is why children and teens have such an ability to leap first and think later- they aren't even capable yet of being able to know what risks they are taking. Fast talking guys take advantage of young women, they're predators for a reason. They set out for the clueless and downtrodden. This young girl supposedly should have known her pictures were going to be all over...? How many grown women come on this site with the same stories? Who knows what the guy on the other end told her. Maybe she felt special, maybe she believed him- children tend to do that till they grow up and become jaded. Maybe he told her she was beautiful and no one ever had. You're talking about a child who doesn't have full capability yet of discerning right from wrong and doesnt' have the complete set of mental faculties to weigh actions, children are notorious for choosing badly, and rightfully so - they're not grown up yet. She paid for her mistakes with her life. Is that a fair trade? If so not many of us would have made it this far. I've done some dumbass stupid things and should be dead, I'll admit that. It would be easy now to say I shouldn't have done those things, but I'm smart enough to know I'm looking back now with reasoning powers that I didn't have then, and life experience that I also didn't have then. I did what I did then for a reason. I'm not sure why this girl is supposed to be superhuman and above being all of 12 or 13 mentally when she flashed someone.

DNAHelicase -> RE: Bullying? (10/13/2012 4:12:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kaliko I've been sitting here for a good five minutes, and I honestly don't even know where to start. I sat with a boy in a classroom after school one day in 9th grade. We sat in separate desks, held hands, and talked. The next day, he told everyone I blew him. I had a reputation, at 13 years old, and the cruelty was severe enough that I ate lunch in the library, took the late bus home to avoid my regular stop, failed two classes, and changed schools at the end of the year. To this day, my mother (and father, at the time) still don't know why I begged so hard to change schools. There's more I went through, both before that and after...much more, but I won't get into it. What I will get into is how much worse it would have been in the world where the internet exists. It's not Facebook - if it's not Facebook, it would be MySpace, or something else. The medium, though, that allows for mass bullying in a way that these harassers don't even need to see the faces of their victims, makes this world that our children live in now unlike any before. Though I don't excuse it, I can understand it...that a young, naive girl would flash her body for positive attention. I remember when my friend and I dressed as "sluts" for Halloween one year as girls. How fucking stupid, right? Asking for trouble, right? I agree, in hindsight, but at the time...Jesus, we were just stupid kids realizing we could be sexy and not knowing what to do with it. Thank God a police officer had the wise sense to overstep his bounds and order us to go home and change. But now..with the internet and instant photos and the ability to share pictures worldwide....there is no ability to "go home and change." Fuck up...fuck up just once...and it follows a kid forever. If you have truly never done anything wrong...if you've never done anything humiliating, or in poor judgment, or in a time and place that you were feeling especially needy and not making wise choices, then go ahead and judge a kid for fucking up. But in my opinion, the time of life when we should be able to fuck up is when we are kids. There is no learning curve anymore. The pressure is so heavy as sexuality pervades children's lives at an earlier age. The actions of kids are magnified by social media websites. Bullies gain support from behind a screen. And the lives of children are ruined because of it. Kids should be allowed to make mistakes, Goddammit. I'm quoting this entire thing because it's so well written. I agree with everything Kaliko said. I saw the topic go by on the scroll and read it, and closed it because I didn't even know where to start. At what age should people be expected to take personal responsibility? Eighth grade is what, 13 year olds? Do they really have the maturity to think about every action they take and be able to predict the possible outcomes of those actions? And while I agree that the girl shouldn't have had access to a cam, when you were a kid were you perfectly well behaved? Did you ever sneak off without your parents knowing about it? Did you ever do something your parents had warned you repeatedly not to do, because it seemed cool at the time (and looking back at it now you think, "Gawd I was dumb")? I think you (JstAnotherSub) are being overly harsh on the girl. She was still a child. There are reasons 13 year olds don't have such legal rights and privileges as smoking, voting, driving, and consenting to sex--they're children and they don't have the mental capacity to make good choices yet (most of them, anyway--I know some 13 year olds are far more mature than most of their peers). I also think you're getting into victim blaming in the way that rape apologists do: "Well, if she hadn't been wearing that skirt, she wouldn't have been raped. That's just asking for it." Once you start down that road there are any number of reasons you can find to blame a victim; who's perfect in every aspect of his or her life, every single day? The blame always ought to be squarely on the people who choose to intentionally hurt other people, regardless of the poor choices the victim might have made (after all, did any of those choices actually hurt anybody before somebody else decided to use it against the victim? Usually not--somebody else came along and decided to be an asshole). Pick any one of the sayings about rights (e.g., "Your rights end at the beginning of my nose") and apply it here. In this particular case, that the assholes were other 13 year old children with similarly limited capacities to make good decisions makes things murkier. I'm all for a stronger no-tolerance policy on bullying in schools and for repeatedly hammering home the message that bullying is wrong, because hey, kids make stupid decisions when left to their own devices. The only thing I agree with you about, JstAnotherSub, is that I do think this could be used as an opportunity to teach young girls about how the choices they make can be used against them. Even though I would like to see blame assigned where it belongs (people who intentionally hurt others), we all know victim blaming is common and assholes are even more common. So at the same time this incident is used to crack down on bullying, it should also be used to teach girls A) that pictures are forever and B) don't trust anybody online. And probably some other things, too, but I feel like I'm starting to ramble.

lizi -> RE: Bullying? (10/13/2012 4:29:58 PM)
As far as parenting, is anyone really able to parent every second 24/7? I was a good, maybe even great parent, there were blocks of time when I didn't know exactly what my kids were doing. You can have every rule in the book, part of being a kid is getting around rules. I believe that people should generally do more parenting and be more proactive, I also believe that you can do the best job that you can and the buggers will still find out how to get around the safeguards that you set up for them. Maybe the parenting wasn't quite there for this girl, maybe her parents were stellar. All computers these days come with cams, most homes have a computer. Having access to a computer with a cam isn't special, it's the norm. I was a computer teacher in an elementary school. We had computer class in a large open room with all the monitors facing in so I could see what the kids were doing. I gave them allowed sites to be on and gave them key words to search with for their projects - we still had a couple of incidents when adult sites came up on the monitors and not because the kids were trying to get away with stuff. One was with the word "coyote"- kid had a third grade project due on desert animals and he was on yahoo for kids as a search engine. It happens, it's part of that world. Should we limit computer use for every person under 18? I don't think so, I believe the benefits outweigh the risks and seeing an adult site or two isn't going to maim a child irreparably. But it's easy to come across - even when you are guarding against it. So she got on FB, it doesn't mean her parents were necessarily negligent.

littlewonder -> RE: Bullying? (10/13/2012 4:47:15 PM)
Kana wonders why when the girl went to the cops and complained, they didn't go after the creep who showed her tits on FB for child pornography.

JstAnotherSub -> RE: Bullying? (10/13/2012 4:54:48 PM)
Thanks for all of the replies. They have given me food for thought. I was not perfect by any means as a kid. By the time I was 17, I had been married, divorced, hitchhiked all over the country, done about every drug known to human kind, fucked more folks than I can recall, some because I wanted to, some because I was forced to, due to my own bad choices. I was molested by my brother from as far back as my memory goes, until I got big enough to kick his ass and say oh hell no you will not do this to me any more. I was teased in school. Redhead, freckles, adopted, really smart, tomboy, loud mouth, and the list goes on and on. My folks hated the choices I made, but loved me through it all. When I got beaten by a husband, they let me know that they loved me, and they came to rescue me, but they also made no bones about it, my own stupidity was what got me in to that situation in the first place. When I cried because I was made fun of, because I did not have the best clothes or the cute hair do, or the straight teeth or the tan skin, like all the other girls, they let me know that they loved me, but they also let me know that it was entirely up to me how I responded to these kids. I could let it get me down or I could accept the fact that sometimes life sucks and move on. To me, had they placed the blame on others, that would have given me an excuse, not a solution. Oh woe is me, the kids are mean to me, so I can not do XYZ. It just does not compute in my mind, but I can see from the replies I am in the minority with that. As for not being able to parent 24/7, I know that is not possible. I do know that I made sure the computer was always in a common room when my son was a teen, and I did monitor him like a hawk. My computer does not have a cam, nor do the computers of any of my friends, unless they purchased one them self. As cautious as I was with my sons computer activities, friends who have daughters were, and are, 10 times more diligent, because it is a different world than when we were teens. Puberty is hard. I would not go back through it for money. I guess I should feel lucky that I was always taught that you can not control others, you can only control how you react to them. I fucked several of my brothers friends, and when they tried to make me out a slut, I laughed it off and said yeah well your dick was right there with me dumbass, so you are as bad. I then went on with my day, not giving one damn about them. I still hope that more will choose to use this tragedy as a chance to teach about personal responsibility and how we can only control our reactions, not the actions of others. In my mind, I just can not connect anything I read about what was done to this girl with the end result. It is entirely possible that her demons would have won the battle, even without everything else that happened. I have fought depression, anxiety, and other demons for most of my life. I feel I should be thinking "But for the grace of the gawds, I could be in her shoes", rather than the way I do feel, but it just is not happening. I will continue to think about the things yall have posted here, and I may see the other side of the coin. If not, like in everything else, I will chalk it up to different views and move on. Thanks again for the thoughts, everyone of them was awesome.

LadyPact -> RE: Bullying? (10/13/2012 5:43:51 PM)
I wanted to thank everybody for the comments they made. A lot of what's been said here makes sense to Me. I've said this before. I am appreciative of the technology we have today, but I'm damn glad we didn't have it when I was a kid. Even just sitting here thinking of some of the dumbass stuff I did before I was an adult....... Christ! Had that shit been caught on tape, publicized, or any of the stuff they can do today, it would have been hard to live it down. Maybe the family is thinking that this was what pushed the kid over the edge. When My brother died, we weren't mad at him originally. We were pissed at everything else. Who he was with, what he was doing, and everything you could think of. We weren't ready to be mad at him yet. We just felt loss because he was gone that fast. I often think of what My parents went through losing a child. It's why I've always said I don't think I'd have the strength to bare it. Whether it's greater awareness about bullying or just what really can be put on the net if you're in front of a cam, I hope this sad, sad story can do some good for somebody out there somewhere. I know it doesn't help this family in their loss. I wish they could be spared the grief.

GreedyTop -> RE: Bullying? (10/13/2012 6:11:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact I wanted to thank everybody for the comments they made. A lot of what's been said here makes sense to Me. I've said this before. I am appreciative of the technology we have today, but I'm damn glad we didn't have it when I was a kid. Even just sitting here thinking of some of the dumbass stuff I did before I was an adult....... Christ! Had that shit been caught on tape, publicized, or any of the stuff they can do today, it would have been hard to live it down. Maybe the family is thinking that this was what pushed the kid over the edge. When My brother died, we weren't mad at him originally. We were pissed at everything else. Who he was with, what he was doing, and everything you could think of. We weren't ready to be mad at him yet. We just felt loss because he was gone that fast. I often think of what My parents went through losing a child. It's why I've always said I don't think I'd have the strength to bare it. Whether it's greater awareness about bullying or just what really can be put on the net if you're in front of a cam, I hope this sad, sad story can do some good for somebody out there somewhere. I know it doesn't help this family in their loss. I wish they could be spared the grief. I am sorry to hear of your brother, LadyP, for you and all your family. hugs

LaTigresse -> RE: Bullying? (10/13/2012 6:15:37 PM)
I think ultimately....we want to place blame. We want to find an easy answer, an obvious villain. We need to, to feel better about ourselves. The reality, I believe, is that a lot of things came together to form the perfect storm. I suffered a lot of what that girl did. My kids suffered a lot of what that girl did. Other kids have suffered, are suffering, will suffer.....what that girl did, and more. Some will die. Some will retaliate and be bullies. Some will grow up with some scars and manage to be reasonbly functioning human beings. The scary thing, it's not a perfect world and we cannot 100% prevent this shit. Not as long as there exists a human race.

risktaker9 -> RE: Bullying? (10/13/2012 6:41:24 PM)
You can never replicate things exactly, people, places, conditions, the place and time, etc. I think it's always a crapshoot to try to understand why people do the things they do, therefore some people come out on the other side of things that happen, and some don't. I don't think the girl at the center of this thread deserves to be blamed. It seems that she got caught in circumstances being what they were and it turned out badly for her. It's useless thinking she should have been stronger or better or never let it happen in the first place - it happened and she dealt with it the way she did.

Alecta -> RE: Bullying? (10/13/2012 7:26:33 PM)
What I'm amazed at is that the adults are allowed to get away with what's happened here. It's not a bullying problem, it's a parenting problem. The parents who failed to police and educate her and every one like her to not go on webcam and fall for strangers with candy (compliments). The parents who failed to use the opportunities in each media tragedy in her life to teach her about protecting herself and not putting herself at risk or suspicion. Who failed to see that the monsters in her closet and under her bed were properly exorcised. The parents who failed to help and fix her when she could be helped. Who failed to make an impact on the other kids to show them that actions and words have consequences, to prevent this tragedy. Not just her parents, but all the other parents as well, and the police and school authorities. But this doesn't make her a saint or a martyr, lets be honest, at that age our hormones would have seized any excuse to make an exit from the tedium of living. She brought the events on herself, the grown-ups around her dropped the ball and failed to see them dealt with properly and in ways she could handle. She did not do enough for herself seeking help and holding on, so its her to blame too. I've always objected to suicidees being called victims. Victims imply they had no other choice and are innocent in the events leading to their deaths. This is just not true. She and the bullies are all kids. It is the collective adult responsibility to teach them, check them, protect them from themselves and each other. Protecting doesn't mean telling them things are going to be ok. Protecting doesn't mean coddling them with candy every time they get a playground scrape. It means giving them a good knock in the head once in a while so they learn what not to do. Children are cruel, they always will be, and it is the grown ups who've failed to keep their "little monsters" in check and make them understand such things as severity and consequences. Maybe, as an aside, the grown ups themselves have no idea.

JanahX -> RE: Bullying? (10/13/2012 8:14:36 PM)
When my daughter was in the fifth grade - she had just entered a new school. There were a group of girls that started bullying her - she came home from school one day and said one of these girls had thrown a sandwich at her. I went to the school the next morning and asked to speak with the principal. He acted like it was no big deal - and had the audacity to tell me "thats just the way kids act". At that point, I told him how this adult parent was going to act. I told him that if he didnt take care of the situation, that I wouldnt be coming in next time to be speaking with him. The next time, he would be speaking with my lawyer. Guess what? - he dealt with the situation. The next year, I put my daughter in private school. Which is what I should of done in the first place. I took responsibility for my child.

angelikaJ -> RE: Bullying? (10/13/2012 9:21:21 PM)
I was bullied in school; not just in elementary, not just high school: K-12. When I entered 7th grade I was excited because It was a regional high school... and instead of it being a new chance, it was now 5 towns of kids picking on me instead of 1. My mother did try... but bullying was not seen the way it is today and her issues prevented more pro-active parenting. My self-esteem was so low that I ended up with a very abusive boyfriend because I thought he was the only one who would want me... and my circumstances at home were such that when he raped me, I stayed. I don't think I had any concept that I did not deserve it and besides, when I was with him, I wasn't home. I believed that I was ugly...because I had been hearing it every day in school. The truth is I wasn't, but I did not know that reality. I had 2 saving Graces: 1) we did not have internet and face-book. The hell I was in in school did not follow me home. I had a break from it. Had it followed me home, I am certain that I would not be here today. I once had a baffled mate ask me: "Why didn't I try harder to fit in?" Because I did not want to be like them. I did not want to be cruel. When I grew up I put my focus on kindness because the people who were generous with it towards me, probably saved my life. They told me I was special in such a way that I began to believe them. The brains of teenagers haven't developed in the way that allows them to see potential consequence. They are very much focused on the moment and what feels good. For those of us who forgot, Janis Ian's lyrics seem to hit the mark for many of us: when Janis' mother heard the song, she broke down in tears and Janis was surprised to learn that this had been her own mother's experience. "But mama, you are beautiful."... . We grow up thinking we are ugly or at the very least that most of the girls in our class are prettier than we are. "He said you're really an ugly girl But I like the way you play And I died But I thanked him Can you believe that Sick holding on to his picture Dressing up every day" Tori Amos - from *Precious Things* Girls are often desperate to fit in; desperate to be loved, desired and accepted. Being perceived as being sexy and therefor acceptable is part of the desire to fit in and grow up out of our ugly-ducking childhoods. Most of us want to be swans. Desperate people often make foolish choices and given her age, and no, I don't hold her to be responsible for ill thought out choices, the consequences of which she could not possibly fathom. Her brain had not cultivated that ability yet.

NuevaVida -> RE: Bullying? (10/13/2012 10:26:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse I think ultimately....we want to place blame. We want to find an easy answer, an obvious villain. We need to, to feel better about ourselves. The reality, I believe, is that a lot of things came together to form the perfect storm. I suffered a lot of what that girl did. My kids suffered a lot of what that girl did. Other kids have suffered, are suffering, will suffer.....what that girl did, and more. Some will die. Some will retaliate and be bullies. Some will grow up with some scars and manage to be reasonbly functioning human beings. The scary thing, it's not a perfect world and we cannot 100% prevent this shit. Not as long as there exists a human race. Totally agree with this post. I was almost the girl who did herself in at the age of 16. Thankfully, I reached out to someone who helped. To feel that death is your only relief to the internal pain you are feeling is a horrible place to be. There is no "blame" to place. As the therapist who talked to my brother (after his son's 2nd suicide attempt) said, "Sometimes the world is just too big for some people." I send love to this girl's family.

littlewonder -> RE: Bullying? (10/13/2012 11:39:47 PM)
As for the parents, I don't blame them. They are probably not there 24/7. Parents have to work and run errands. When my daughter was about 13, I worked until 5 and didn't get home until 6pm. So she was left to her own devices after school for about 3 hours or so since they got out at 3pm. I could have told her till I was blue in the face to not go on the computer till I got home, not to do this, not to do that but kids will do what they want at that age for the most part. When she would go to sleepovers at friends' homes, I had no idea what was going on. I simply had to trust her. As for the bullying, I was bullied the entire I was in school. In grade school it was because my family was the poorest in the town and I wore hand me downs. I was teased constantly. From middle school until high school I was teased unmercifully because I had severe eczema that covered my entire body and there were times I even had to wear gauze on my arms and legs to keep them from cracking and bleeding. I was called ugly, I was told to put a bag over my head and many other things. I was not happy. I became extremely depressed, I did everything I could not to have to go to class that day. It was not easy. I can understand why the girl committed suicide. I've been there. It was awful and now I look back and wonder how I survived that without killing myself. I just hope that the perpetrators of what happened to the girl are arrested and charged.

gungadin09 -> RE: Bullying? (10/14/2012 1:23:02 AM)
I can't believe I survived my teens, even without being bullied. I doubt I could do it again. I think people forget how hard those years were. Pam

gungadin09 -> RE: Bullying? (10/14/2012 2:22:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub ...To me, had they placed the blame on others, that would have given me an excuse, not a solution. Oh woe is me, the kids are mean to me, so I can not do XYZ. It just does not compute in my mind, but I can see from the replies I am in the minority with that...I guess I should feel lucky that I was always taught that you can not control others, you can only control how you react to them. I fucked several of my brothers friends, and when they tried to make me out a slut, I laughed it off and said yeah well your dick was right there with me dumbass, so you are as bad. I then went on with my day, not giving one damn about them... You know, I'm jealous. I've never been able to bounce back like that. ETA: Hell, I'm still getting over stuff that happened in grade school, never mind the shit that happened last week. But then, I'm a little neurotic, so... you know. P.S.- I don't think your reaction makes you "mean". Your reaction is your reaction. Don't worry if it's different than other people's. Pam

descrite -> RE: Bullying? (10/14/2012 2:41:13 AM)
I have to agree with a lot of what the OP said...granting power to externalities detracts from the power of the individual. But I think what we're witnessing now is an adjustment period...there is some painful transition going on in our society right now: we are stuck between the way it was, and the way it's going to be. And some people are going to hurt themselves during the process. The way it was: slut-shaming, worrying about image, physical threats, and so forth. The way it's going to be: we're looking at a generation where every single person is going to have nude photos of themselves somewhere in the Webiverse. There will be nobody untouched by the Stupid Photo. Which will reset the meter, for our whole civilization. Hey, remember how doing drugs (even weed) used to be the kiss of death for a politician? We have now had three Presidents, two Supreme Court Justices, and at least one Speaker of the House who have all admitted doing it...and it's a non-issue, today. Sex (and Stupid Sex Acts) is the next frontier, and it's happening right in front of us. The worst thing to do right now is to try to monkey with the process. Which is exactly what we're doing. We're passing laws, and inviting government oversight, and generally attempting to meddle with the New Now...which always, always fucks up progress. It's going to be a better world, in a few moments. Until then, the growing pains include some people who have a tough time handling the transition; the best thing we can do is let them know it's not as bad as they think it is, that it's never the end of the world, and that we love them. Trying to control them won't work. It will hurt more people, in the long run.

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