RE: Seven Mysteries of Profound Love, the NDE Experience

RE: Seven Mysteries of Profound Love, the NDE Experience (Full Version)

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vincentML -> RE: Seven Mysteries of Profound Love, the NDE Experience (10/16/2012 5:15:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BenevolentM quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: On the other hand, one can stand in the presence of God for an eternity with no harm coming to you. Been there, done that. Found it kind of BORRRRRINGGGG . . . Against the backdrop of eternity simple pleasures are magnified. They become orgasmic. Ask yourself, what makes a thing boring? It is exhaustion. The mind is weak and has grown wary. In Heaven one never becomes exhausted, thus one is never bored. Very nice try. But orgasm can be exhausting and yet somehow it is seldom boring. Secondly, if the mind is weak thus subject to boredom AND in heaven one is never bored, then does it not follow that the mind can never be a candidate for heaven? If not the mind than what mindless existence is in heaven?

Anaxagoras -> RE: Seven Mysteries of Profound Love, the NDE Experience (10/16/2012 6:52:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BenevolentM quote: ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras You don't understand the point since it wasn't truly based on the premise of the infinite. What proof do you have of this? My initial point and your answer.

BenevolentM -> RE: Seven Mysteries of Profound Love, the NDE Experience (10/16/2012 3:10:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML But orgasm can be exhausting and yet somehow it is seldom boring. Secondly, if the mind is weak thus subject to boredom AND in heaven one is never bored, then does it not follow that the mind can never be a candidate for heaven? If not the mind than what mindless existence is in heaven? Your argument style exhibits the same deficits as does Anaxagoras. Anaxagoras refuses to acknowledge that his understanding of the infinite is unsophisticated and so too is your knowledge of orgasm. A relationship between boredom and physical exhaustion clearly exists. I am able to appreciate the fact that there are some irrelevant details to be worked out, however. Below Anaxagoras advances only rhetoric. He is unable to respond. His denial that his argument does not rely on a naive understanding of the infinite is unfounded. quote: ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras quote: ORIGINAL: BenevolentM quote: ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras You don't understand the point since it wasn't truly based on the premise of the infinite. What proof do you have of this? My initial point and your answer.

Anaxagoras -> RE: Seven Mysteries of Profound Love, the NDE Experience (10/16/2012 3:19:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BenevolentM Below Anaxagoras advances only rhetoric. He is unable to respond. His denial that his argument does not rely on a naive understanding of the infinite is unfounded. quote: ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras quote: ORIGINAL: BenevolentM quote: ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras You don't understand the point since it wasn't truly based on the premise of the infinite. What proof do you have of this? My initial point and your answer. Nonsense, I merely pointed to our "discussion" as proof because my point had little to do with the infinite as I already pointed out. It was merely a descreptor of God's being. You focused on it to the exclusion of all else, and continue to do so. It is either a strawman on your part or you misunderstand. BTW who are you talking to above?

BenevolentM -> RE: Seven Mysteries of Profound Love, the NDE Experience (10/16/2012 3:58:35 PM)
Is there a relationship between orgasm and the NDE experience? I would say there clearly is a connection. The reports suggests a long continuous sustained orgasm. It is my understanding the neuroscience has discovered that an orgasm is a holistic experience involving many parts of, if not the entire, brain. Some claim/know that oxygen deprivation can enhance the experience. This suggests that those who feel that the NDE experience is a symptom of oxygen deprivation maybe right, but there is a problem with this theory. In brain death or near brain death it is difficult to believe that the whole brain is capable of such a coordinated activity. It is known that adrenaline will distort our perception of time. The NDE experience may be the last memory that was formed before we fell into the coma at which time the brain was being pushed to its performance limit resulting in one extraordinary act, its swan song. This suggests that even if the NDE experience has a purely physical origin, it is our swan song and the thing that defines what it is to be human the most; consequently, either way the NDE experience cannot be dismissed as nothing. The NDE experience is telling us something important, namely what we humans regard as important. Consequently, it is not surprising that an NDE experience often reminds us what is truly important in life. Such a thing, on the other hand, is inherently metaphysical.

BenevolentM -> RE: Seven Mysteries of Profound Love, the NDE Experience (10/16/2012 4:23:34 PM)
For those who do not believe that my intellectual and spiritual capacity is nothing less than awesome I would say they missed out on something in life. Does the theory I advanced above explain what I experienced? It does. My grief pushed my brain/mind to its performance limit in an attempt to make sense of things. Can the result be regarded as nothing? At a minimum the achievement is an artistic achievement. Life as performance art. Can the same thing be said of the Saints? Lives committed to that which is felt to be the most important in death, lived before one finally expires.

BenevolentM -> RE: Seven Mysteries of Profound Love, the NDE Experience (10/16/2012 11:35:32 PM)
God is an awesome God. Thanks Be to God. Glory Be to God!

Moonhead -> RE: Seven Mysteries of Profound Love, the NDE Experience (10/17/2012 4:13:19 AM)
No, he's a crap God. The awesome Gods have their own comics... [img]http://imgc.allpostersimages.com/images/P-473-488-90/57/5768/7DYTG00Z/posters/walt-simonson-the-mighty-thor-337-cover-beta-ray-bill.jpg[/img]

BenevolentM -> RE: Seven Mysteries of Profound Love, the NDE Experience (10/17/2012 2:17:21 PM)
I'm guessing you are looking forward to meeting your fantasy characters in the after life. Doing the unthinkable I thought to look up the word boredom in wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boredom Clicking on Flow in the chart I was brought to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_%28psychology%29 Under http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_%28psychology%29#Mechanism_of_flow I encountered something interesting: "In every given moment, there is a great deal of information made available to each individual. Psychologists have found that one's mind can attend to only a certain amount of information at a time. According to Mihaly's 1956 study, that number is about 126 bits of information per second." Flow appears to describe the NDE experience. In a hypothetical universe where you are provided precisely what is needed together with an absence of pathology you would never experience boredom. The need for intense experience, the sort that gives you a sun burn or worse, is obviously due to a mismatch, not getting actually what you desire, but getting something similar instead. In this world, we rarely ever get precisely what is needed when it is needed. It is like getting hot soup when what you really need is penicillin. I'm making a reference to a scene in the film Hunger Games. The hot soup is pleasant and helpful, but it is less precise as compared to the penicillin which targets the source of the problem more directly. If you get exactly what you need when you need it, the difference is dramatic. In this life we get hot soup. Be grateful for those little favors from heaven! Mismatch and pathology are related. Typically, a foreign organism is a mismatch, most women. On occasion there is no mismatch and the two organisms make love and mate with each other, symbiosis. quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead No, he's a crap God. The awesome Gods have their own comics... [img]http://imgc.allpostersimages.com/images/P-473-488-90/57/5768/7DYTG00Z/posters/walt-simonson-the-mighty-thor-337-cover-beta-ray-bill.jpg[/img]

BenevolentM -> RE: Seven Mysteries of Profound Love, the NDE Experience (10/17/2012 2:33:34 PM)
Naturally, this begs a question, If heaven, can do better, why doesn't it? I figure it is like asking an inhabitant of another solar system to deliver pizza. The distances involved are so great that we underestimate the hardship. That pizza had to be pretty damn hot when it left the oven. It makes better sense to call upon your local neighborhood pizza shop.

BenevolentM -> RE: Seven Mysteries of Profound Love, the NDE Experience (10/17/2012 2:39:40 PM)
An obvious flaw in this argument is that why bother with delivering a pizza, deliver the blueprints to build a pizza oven along with pizza recipes. But suppose the distance was so great that even information has difficulty reaching you. Naturally, only the most basic components of the original message will reach you where the most basic component of the carrier wave is love.

BenevolentM -> RE: Seven Mysteries of Profound Love, the NDE Experience (10/17/2012 2:58:14 PM)
You listening to ham radio. God: I'm your father and I love you. You: Say what? I can't here you. Can you speak a little louder? God repeats himself: I'm your father and I love you. You: Ok, I'll turn off the heavy metal music. God: You don't understand. I'm not asking you to turn the heavy metal off per se. The music is just interfering. I love you. You: Say what? I still can't hear you. Can you speak a little louder? God: The transmitter is already maxed out.

BenevolentM -> RE: Seven Mysteries of Profound Love, the NDE Experience (10/17/2012 3:14:53 PM)
You ignore your father even though he built the greatest monument to love ever built, a transmitter powerful enough to reach across the whole of the universe to tell you just one thing.

BenevolentM -> RE: Seven Mysteries of Profound Love, the NDE Experience (10/17/2012 4:22:19 PM)
I was looking at some atheist comics and to my surprise I encountered the same sort of illogic that I've encountered here, an inability to comprehend subtle distinctions. For example see http://www.atheist-community.org/atheisteve/ Spiritual, but not Religious? (August 2012) More specifically atheists have a tendency to misapply of the law of excluded middle. I tried to explain it to an atheist bimbo, more than likely an atheist, some weeks ago. It appears to be at the root of their cynicism. I recall an atheist cartoon that mocked Christians.

BenevolentM -> RE: Seven Mysteries of Profound Love, the NDE Experience (10/18/2012 11:48:12 PM)
Let a spiritual person be x. Let a religious person be x + y. Spiritual, but not Religious is then x, but not x + y. The added qualification, "but not Religious" is needed because without the additional qualification to say that you are spiritual is ambiguous since a spiritual person can be either x or x + y. The argument advanced by atheism is circular since they are invoking the existential fallacy saying in effect, you are silly because you are silly.

BenevolentM -> RE: Seven Mysteries of Profound Love, the NDE Experience (10/19/2012 12:08:52 AM)
The law of excluded middle is a precondition for the law of double negation. The law of excluded middle is not applicable because x and x + y are not mutually exclusive; hence, the law of double negation is not applicable.

BenevolentM -> RE: Seven Mysteries of Profound Love, the NDE Experience (10/19/2012 12:18:37 AM)
Most people can understand what I just said intuitively without having to resort to a formal explanation. What is troubling is that atheists do not appear to be able to figure out these sorts of things extemporaneously.

vincentML -> RE: Seven Mysteries of Profound Love, the NDE Experience (10/19/2012 3:32:38 AM)
~FR~ A boring exercise in masturbatory posting[:-]

GotSteel -> RE: Seven Mysteries of Profound Love, the NDE Experience (10/19/2012 11:28:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BenevolentM I'm guessing you are looking forward to meeting your fantasy characters in the after life. Just like you. Frankly monologues like this do more to discredit Christianity than any logical argument I could give. It's so bad that all Anaxagoras has to do to demonstrate that your arguments wrong is point to your argument.

BenevolentM -> RE: Seven Mysteries of Profound Love, the NDE Experience (10/19/2012 3:50:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML ~FR~ A boring exercise in masturbatory posting[:-] Admittedly, vincentML strikes me here as more intellectually honest compared to GotSteel, but what he wrote is telling as well as what GotSteel wrote below. The moral foundation of atheism is weak. The reason for this is the very notion of love is abstract and has a strong metaphysical component. For those who cannot cope with the abstract can only relate to that which is concrete, for example masturbation. Apparently vincentML can relate to masturbation, but can he relate to concepts such as love? GotSteel below is advancing the collectivist fantasy argument. If the collective believes it to be so, it becomes so. God is the creator of all that is real. Love is real. To acknowledge that love is real one must have faith. It is a caveat. Anything real has a caveat, much like it was in the Garden of Eden. There was a caveat, do not partake of the forbidden fruit. I know that God is a loving God through first hand experience. It is a wonder and a miracle. quote: ORIGINAL: GotSteel quote: ORIGINAL: BenevolentM I'm guessing you are looking forward to meeting your fantasy characters in the after life. Just like you. Frankly monologues like this do more to discredit Christianity than any logical argument I could give. It's so bad that all Anaxagoras has to do to demonstrate that your arguments wrong is point to your argument.

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