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RE: BDSM in nature - Penis Spikes - 10/19/2012 2:54:13 AM   
Darkfeather


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If you want to base your theories on a simplistic definition, go right ahead. But there is more to prove instinct than there is sadism. As for mothers in the animal kingdom, mainly only mammals stay with their young. Most other species mate, have their offspring, and leave them to fend for themselves. These actions are evolution's way of helping species survive. There is no sadistic glee as a mother robin watches her baby flail on the ground after it fell out of the nest. Instinct just tells her, that if the baby does not survive, she will make more.

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RE: BDSM in nature - Penis Spikes - 10/19/2012 5:43:48 AM   
ChatteParfaitt


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I've been to Alaska, and I've seen them ! Himself's family has one displayed in their living room that's at least 3 feet long and ALL BONE.

Now that's one impressive penis.

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RE: BDSM in nature - Penis Spikes - 10/19/2012 3:26:06 PM   
CuriousFerret


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Darkfeather

But I am afraid a cat playing with a mouse is all instinct. Cat's eyes have developed to keenly notice any and all movement, and recognize that as prey.
My goodness. I always thought they were just having fun. I always had this strange idea that the "prey-recognition" occurred at a precognitive level.

quote:

Now comes the reason some cats do not kill, but torture their furry victim. Since the skills to hunt and eat were bred out of domesticated cats, they for the most part are running on pure instinct. If that cat does not want to eat it, or simply cannot connect the dots from mouse to food, he will continue to follow the base instinct. Chase, pounce, bite down.
Oh...and here I thought that cats just tended to get most of their learning based on imitation, which is a behavioral trait that cats happen to share with humans.

quote:

Ask any person who sits on a blood drive chair why they sit through that, and most will say the same thing. But having someone shove a needle in your arm and extract copious amounts of blood for a length of time is, painful if you get a bad technician, and yet people still do it. Are they masochists? Most likely not, just willing to endure some physical discomfort for a reason.
I always assumed they just felt like being nice and happened to take a certain amount of pleasure in the feeling that they were helping others.

http://www.lifeslittlemysteries.com/2330-niceness-dna-scientists-find.html

< Message edited by CuriousFerret -- 10/19/2012 3:28:45 PM >

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RE: BDSM in nature - Penis Spikes - 10/21/2012 3:43:53 AM   
metamorfosis


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Darkfeather
If you want to base your theories on a simplistic definition, go right ahead. But there is more to prove instinct than there is sadism.


I'm not trying to be contrary, and if you want to drop it that's fine, but the more I think about this, the more I disagree. The cat chooses to play with the mouse. It's not instinct, it's a deliberate choice. I think the cat could just as easily decide not to, and sometimes it does. Likewise, mothers (at least mammal mothers) decide to raise their young.

Pam


< Message edited by metamorfosis -- 10/21/2012 3:47:34 AM >


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RE: BDSM in nature - Penis Spikes - 10/21/2012 5:04:54 AM   
ClassAct2006


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We all know how we spread over this planet from Africa. We did have some harmony as 2% of our DNA is Neanderthal so we mixed some genes with them. Genghis Khan fathering children wherever he went either raped or locals brought their daughters to him. The Vikings were not too keen on obtaining consent. It is certainly not stretching things very far to see that non consensual sex has been a huge part of our history. It's even used today as a tool in war by many.

That doesn't mean it's right. That doesn't mean that is informed consent to sexual acts ni any way at all. It is much sexier to have someone who really wants you even if it hurts her in terms of what you do her than randomly to have others who don't want you at all. Most human societies have had pair bonds. Most men I ever speak to have always wanted a close loving relationship with one woman although there will always be a sub group of men and a few women who want different partners all the time.

I certainly find it easier always have been sub to see myself and how I am in history and abroad than I would if I were a submissive man. It is still culturally easier to do what your husband or boyfriend says or to say you have to ask their view/consent first than it is the other way round.

However loads of women are not at all submissive no matter what you do to them or how you try to persuade them and plenty are domme so cultures which impose anything on them whether that be submission or dominance when they aren't dom are never going to be morally right.

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RE: BDSM in nature - Penis Spikes - 10/21/2012 6:38:21 AM   
CuriousFerret


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Dumb teenager: "So what does this have to do with spiky penises again?"

Anyway, all placental mammals have a neocortex. All of them. It's not all that different from the human neocortex. Ours is just several times larger, in proportion to our bodies, than practically any found on the planet. There is almost no neocortex that holds a candle to that of human beings, with rare exceptions such as elephants. Nevertheless, every placental mammal ever born has one, and its basic workings don't vary much.

Want to know why it's daft to say that animals are limited to reinforcement learning? Because the neocortex doesn't do that. That happens mostly in the basal ganglia. To say that every placental mammal other than humans is limited to reinforcement learning is like saying that no animal other than humans has any brain structure beyond the basal ganglia, which is obvious nonsense.

The neocortex actually performs a highly specific set of functions. It is a specialized organ. Trying to use it for anything else is like trying to use your nose to perform the work of your penis or trying to drink water with your index finger. And every placental mammal in the world has one, without exception. The organ is unique to placental mammals and marsupials.

One of the many functions of the neocortex is memory storage. Your ability to carry a map around in your head is thanks to your neocortex. You store language in your neocortex. Your moral values are in your neocortex.

The prefrontal lobe of your neocortex makes it possible for you to suppress immoral or socially unacceptable behavior, and your pet cat happens to have one, significantly smaller but similar in its functions to yours. It is also necessary for voluntary behavior, which is to say, "executive functions." The prefrontal cortex is like your brain's CEO, liberal arts nerd, and chaplain, all rolled into one. To claim that non-human animals do anything else with it is like saying that cats use their ass-pucker for the purpose of hearing.

The parietal lobe is your brain's cartographer, math whiz, and general guru. Your parietal lobe likes to meditate. Chess club nerds and those goofy chicks who waste time trying to elevate themselves to a "higher astral plane" or something probably just have unusually strong connections between their parietal lobe and nucleus accumbens.

Your occipital lobe is the AV club, and it pretty much governs your ability to put together images in a way that makes it possible for other parts of your brain to use and understand them, such as assigning color labels.

Your temporal lobe is the local busybody and social gossip. It contains Wernicke's Area and Broca's Area, which are responsible for our comprehension of the meaning and syntax of language, respectively. Human social behavior happens in the temporal lobe.

And all of these structures do the same things in a rat that they do in a human being. So...why doesn't a rat stand up and talk to us? Why don't they build computers and space shuttles? It's because a rat's neocortex is significantly simpler than that of a human being. Although we are both euarchontoglires, the eurchonta branch of that clade has been a lot busier, in terms of developing their neocortex, than the glires branch of that clade. Even so, the general use of these sections of the rat's neocortex is similar.

Now, the main reason that it's dumb to attribute our B&D, D/s, and S&M bullshit to the neocortex is that these portions of the brain have nothing to do with our sexuality. If anything, it's the reverse! When you are sexually aroused, there is very little going on in your neocortex. The fact that your girlfriend acts like a kitten when she is sexed-up is no coincidence: the parts of her brain that make humans unique are running on low power at the time. If your girlfriend is acting like a kitten, then her current mental state really is not too far removed from that of your pet cat.

The fact of the matter, though, is that we like to feel this way, sometimes. BDSM is ultimately a set of structured exercises that are specifically targeted at making us feel this way. The strong emphasis on reward and punishment is designed to shut down the parts of the brain that are involved in abstract reasoning and get the brain into a more primitive mode of operation. All of the roleplay, leather gear, and kink culture are just the sophisticated set of procedures that we have put together to help us be in this state of mind more easily. This allows us to live a wonderful double-life divided between higher pursuits, such as spirituality or education, and getting good sex. It's meant to make the annoying nanny that lives in our frontal lobe shut the fuck up long enough for us to get in a good screw.

And that's why it makes sense for us to be talking about animal behavior and brain science in a discussion about kinky sex.

< Message edited by CuriousFerret -- 10/21/2012 6:52:02 AM >

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RE: BDSM in nature - Penis Spikes - 10/21/2012 6:46:32 AM   
BurntKitty


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Dafuq wazzat?



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RE: BDSM in nature - Penis Spikes - 10/21/2012 6:58:28 AM   
CuriousFerret


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BurntKitty

Dafuq wazzat?



It's an explanation of why BDSM nerds are a supreme race destined to dominate the galaxy under their iron thumb.

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RE: BDSM in nature - 10/21/2012 6:21:51 PM   
KaiKai


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rochsub2009

When I saw the title of this thread, I expected something far more interesting and well-researched than the silly Youtube videos that you provided. That doesn't qualify as BDSM. I feel cheated.


I whole-heartedly agree.

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RE: BDSM in nature - Penis Spikes - 10/21/2012 6:25:24 PM   
KaiKai


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This is officially the most intelligent post I have seen on Collar Me and I commend you.

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RE: BDSM in nature - Penis Spikes - 10/21/2012 7:08:47 PM   
Darkfeather


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KaiKai

This is officially the most intelligent post I have seen on Collar Me and I commend you.



It may very well be beautifully written and intelligently prosed, but it is still wrong. A human is way more than the sum of its biological parts. To try and attest emotions, behaviors, even feelings, to some sort of physical structure is simply false, because in truth we know nothing about how the brain really works. We can theorize, make our best guesses, but no scientist on this planet can say, he knows what is going on in a person's head, just by looking at their brain

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RE: BDSM in nature - Penis Spikes - 10/21/2012 8:27:14 PM   
littlewonder


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KaiKai

This is officially the most intelligent post I have seen on Collar Me and I commend you.


Seriously??? I guess I must not understand "intelligent post". It just seemed like a bunch of gobbletygook to me and something I would read on a newage website.


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RE: BDSM in nature - Penis Spikes - 10/21/2012 8:40:54 PM   
Darkfeather


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quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder


quote:

ORIGINAL: KaiKai

This is officially the most intelligent post I have seen on Collar Me and I commend you.


Seriously??? I guess I must not understand "intelligent post". It just seemed like a bunch of gobbletygook to me and something I would read on a newage website.




Oh come now, if it were new age-y, we would be talking about trepanning or aluminum pyramid hats... or did I just open up a whole nother can-o-worms?

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RE: BDSM in nature - Penis Spikes - 10/21/2012 8:46:29 PM   
littlewonder


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heh...give it time. I'm sure that will come up too soon.


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RE: BDSM in nature - Penis Spikes - 10/21/2012 8:50:06 PM   
JanahX


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BWAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHSAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA DEEP BREATH BWAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAH

quote:

ORIGINAL: KaiKai

This is officially the most intelligent post I have seen on Collar Me and I commend you.



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RE: BDSM in nature - Penis Spikes - 10/21/2012 8:50:31 PM   
Darkfeather


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Told you I was a sadist

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RE: BDSM in nature - Penis Spikes - 10/21/2012 9:04:03 PM   
KaiKai


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I don't see how he's wrong at all. I'm involved in veterinary studies and he has accurately explained, in very nice metaphors, how the different parts of the brain work, as we understand them thus far. Wait, what?
Behaviours and emotions... they must have absolutely nothing to do with a structure such as the brain. Of course. It's all in your SOUL.
I can't be bothered to debate with somebody that really believes that.
Everything is the sum of it's biological parts. That's all I have to say.

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RE: BDSM in nature - Penis Spikes - 10/21/2012 9:17:08 PM   
Darkfeather


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KaiKai

I don't see how he's wrong at all. I'm involved in veterinary studies and he has accurately explained, in very nice metaphors, how the different parts of the brain work, as we understand them thus far. Wait, what?
Behaviours and emotions... they must have absolutely nothing to do with a structure such as the brain. Of course. It's all in your SOUL.
I can't be bothered to debate with somebody that really believes that.
Everything is the sum of it's biological parts. That's all I have to say.


*sigh* OK, it is human nature to self preserve correct? We don't run into traffic, we don't put our hand in fire. Why, because our brain says to do this would cause pain, and pain (relatively) is bad. So if we are nothing but a sum of our parts, brain chemistry, then how do you explain a man running into a burning building to save a complete stranger? Risking his life and considerable pain for someone he doesn't even know? His brain is telling him "fire bad" but he does it anyway. Or law enforcement, soldiers, anyone who puts their life at risk for a purpose other than food or protecting their loved ones? I said nothing of the soul, but to say we are nothing but electrical impulses and specialized cells...

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RE: BDSM in nature - Penis Spikes - 10/21/2012 10:08:05 PM   
metamorfosis


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Darkfeather
... I said nothing of the soul, but to say we are nothing but electrical impulses and specialized cells...


We agree at last. And I will do you the justice to say this: the cat, regardless of the degree to which it chooses it's behavior, must not understand the psychological distress it's causing the mouse. And mother animals can not be aware of the sacrifices they're making for their offspring.

Pam


< Message edited by metamorfosis -- 10/21/2012 10:13:27 PM >


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RE: BDSM in nature - Penis Spikes - 10/21/2012 10:25:13 PM   
Darkfeather


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quote:

ORIGINAL: metamorfosis

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darkfeather
... I said nothing of the soul, but to say we are nothing but electrical impulses and specialized cells...


We agree at last. And I will do you the justice to say this: the cat, regardless of the degree to which it chooses it's behavior, must not understand the psychological distress it's causing the mouse. And mother animals can not be aware of the sacrifices they're making for their offspring.

Pam




You just proved my point. The cat doesn't understand he is causing distress. Therefore, he is not doing it out of a sadistic nature. And act cannot be sadistic just by the act. If I were to spank my child for doing something wrong, is that sadistic? If I were to shoot a horse that had broken its leg, putting it out of it's pain, would that be? To the cat, it is simply doing what is in its nature. My whole argument is that animals act on instinct rather than reason and complex thought as a human would.

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