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Help: GF and D/s - 10/25/2012 4:57:29 PM   
Theo79


Posts: 4
Joined: 10/25/2012
Status: offline 		Hi to all,
I'm not a member of the networking site, but this seems to be the largest bdsm forum there is and I'm in strong need of advice from fellow kinksters.
For those who care to trouble themselves with me, this is my issue:
for the last 15 years, I've only been in D/s relationships, albeit different in length and commitment. A little less than a year ago the last of these ended and I released my slave of four years amicably. A couple of months ago (who am I kidding? I know the day, it was the 29th of August) I met my now girlfriend through some old university mates and we've been dating since then; I think it is safe to say we feel in love.
I adore her and what we have, but I still feel it is my nature to desire the control and structure, in and mostly outside the bedroom, of a D/s relationship. Not wanting to scare her away, I've slowly introduced her, with a certain degree of success, to a more deviant brand of sexuality. I haven't had the same luck with trying to find traditional femininity and submissiveness in her personality: she's very young, avers to protocols and, even if open minded, has the strong tendency to never take anything very seriously. I tried to introduce D/s relationships to her as a general abstract notion: she wasn't exactly judgmental, but she took the piss, quite nonchalantly.
I haven't been in a vanilla relationship since my teens and I know it wouldn't fulfill me completely, so I asked the advice of my kinky circle, who also happen to be my closest friends at this time. We thought that having her to dinner among us to show how 'normal' these relationships are in reality would have been a good idea.
It didn't go well: although everyone was polite and SFW, some of the behaviours we take the liberty of keeping when out among each other (the titles, the fact that one my friends refers to herself in the third person and by impersonal pronouns, the personal life-views, etc) maybe coupled with the fact that all the couples (3) happened to be of the male dominance variety left her very unimpressed. On the drive home, aside from some pretty heavy mockery, she told me that she felt ambushed and that the only reason she didn't laugh in their faces was not to put me in a difficult position. She has midterms coming and the day after she informed me she didn't want to discuss this until her exams were over.
I really can't think of any other way to avoid losing her, without losing myself.
Has any of you found themselves in a similar position? How did you deal with it?

Thank you so much,
Theo

< Message edited by Theo79 -- 10/25/2012 5:05:20 PM >
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Help: GF and D/s - 10/25/2012 5:02:58 PM   
ProlificNeeds


Posts: 1061
Joined: 5/19/2007
Status: offline 		Be true to thyself. If you know what sort of relationship you need, don't beat around the bush with her, just explain what you are looking for, and ask if it's something she could want to explore, or if it is better to bring things to an end now.

If you can live vanilla or with just some bedroom kink, great, if not, be honest with her, don't mangle a good thing by trying to rope her into something she doesn't want.

Either way honor her request to not bring complications into her life while she's focusing on her exams. When she's ready to talk, have -the- talk, until then be cool.

(in reply to Theo79)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Help: GF and D/s - 10/25/2012 7:48:56 PM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline 		So to be clear for a full decade and a half -- your ENTIRE ADULT LIFE -- you have only entertained a certain kind of relationship but for whatever reasons this time you decided to try something different. That different thing isn't going to work.

You have misled someone... knowingly or not you did. Have I ever done such things? Yes. What I try to do in such situations is fix it. If you can't fix it by living without D/s then you must stop seeing her. You also owe her a HUGE freakin apology. A really sincere and heartfelt apology MIGHT save you from being recorded in her mind as a misogynistic pig for the rest of her life.

In terms of feeling ambushed, I agree with her. I could also come up with several less flattering words.

It sounds to me like she's not natively submissive. Nor is she interested in submitting for reasons of secondary gain. You, at least in regards her, don't have whatever it takes to inspire an non-native submissive response in her. So there you have it. You asked her to submit. She said "No". And she actually performed quite nicely in terms of not embarrassing you in front of your friends. Honestly had she chosen to walk out on the spot and never speak to you again I would see that as entirely appropriate. I like her actions in this story much more than I like yours. What you need to do is grow a set and fix what you've broken -- which particularly includes her emotions.

The exposure idea wasn't bad but why was it a surprise? Had you said right up front where you were taking her, who she was going to meet, and why you wanted her to meet them then she would not have felt that way. If I understand correctly that you did not do so then that part of the story is skeevy enough that on it's strength alone I would encourage some sub I was friends with to have a great deal of caution around you. It certainly doesn't align well with any notions of honor and/or integrity that I might have.


_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to Theo79)
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RE: Help: GF and D/s - 10/25/2012 8:35:42 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		She already told you she is not into this but yet you still want to force it on her by showing it to her and also thinking if she met your friends she would be all for it. Honey, it doesn't work that way. I would either move on or accept my life for what it is because I love my partner.

Trying to change someone never ever works very well.

And I agree with your girl. You ambushed her and she though most of the guys she met were nothing even close to dominant. Let's be honest. Many times you don't always get the intelligent, good looking dominant personality Doms with stable lives and a job. I probably would have done the same thing she did. Like I said, she told you. Don't manipulate her into being your sub/slave. It won't work.

< Message edited by littlewonder -- 10/25/2012 8:40:41 PM >

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RE: Help: GF and D/s - 10/25/2012 9:02:01 PM   
Theo79


Posts: 4
Joined: 10/25/2012
Status: offline 		Thank you very much for your prompt input guys...
I can see better that I didn't behave in the best of ways towards her and I'll apologise, when she'll give me the chance.
Although it seems like many of you misunderstood my story: I never asked her to submit, if not in some very light sexual play she seems to quite enjoy, I only spoke to her about the lifestyle from a general perspective, without admitting that that has been my lifestlye, and she wasn't dismissive of the notion, she just made fun of it a bit. I never actually asked to submit and she never said no, I wanted to ease her into it before admitting that it was something I wanted for the two of us. Yes, I told her that there would have been kinkster folks at the dinner, but apparently she expected 'more postmodern sexual rebels and less chauvinists having their girlfriend speak like the inanimate version of Julious Ceasar'.
There's some submissiveness in her, in the bedroom at least, and I think there must be a way to bring it out of her and make this work, even if I have to wait a lot.

And Jeff, thank you for your answer, but I didn't just decide to try something new for whatever reason...I feel in love.

(in reply to littlewonder)
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RE: Help: GF and D/s - 10/25/2012 9:10:30 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		Her making fun of it pretty much tells you everything you need to know. yeah, she likes to play tie up in the bedroom. Many people also do, even "vanilla" folks. Doesn't mean she has a bit of submissiveness in her. She just likes some kinky sex every once in awhile.

_____________________________

Nothing has changed
Everything has changed

(in reply to Theo79)
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RE: Help: GF and D/s - 10/25/2012 11:17:54 PM   
AthenaSurrenders


Posts: 3582
Joined: 3/15/2012
Status: offline 		She made fun of it when you brought it up, and again when she saw it in action. You may not have said 'wanna be my sub?' but you already know how she feels about it.

I would have felt ambushed too. I would be uncomfortable with the evening you described, and I am a submissive.

I see what you mean with the plan of showing her how 'normal' your kinky friends were but I think it fell flat. Because, let's be honest, they weren't acting particularly 'normal'. Speaking in the third person is a long way from bedroom bondage. The fact that you are in a group of friends who are all in Male dom/female sub isn't normal. There's nothing wrong with it at all of course, but if anything all you did was highlight the differentness. It might have gone better if she met them on a casual night out at the bar and then later learned they were into M/s. Then she might have thought 'oh but they were just like me'. Putting her into a situation where they were using titles etc meant that she was immediately aware of the ways in which they were not like her.

If I were her and we'd already spoken about this and I made it clear I thought it was silly, and then found myself in that situation I'd feel like I was under pressure to conform.

There may be some bedroom submission in her. It doesn't sound like this is a lifestyle that interests her. Ultimately if this is something you need you will both be unhappy. This is where we get threads from people who have been married three years complaining they feel unfulfilled because they knew they were kinky but married someone vanilla because they hoped to convince them. Fundamentally you're saying 'how can I change this person'? It sucks that you're in love with someone that doesn't want the same life you do.

At the very least you need to lay all your cards on the table before this goes any further. You need to come right out and say that you want this. You need to be honest - if she plays the role in the bedroom once a week, is that enough? Are you hoping that a year from now she'll be calling you Master at a dinner party? It won't be a surprise to her, she'll already be suspecting this. Get it out in the open so you can both make an informed choice of how much you are willing to compromise.

_____________________________

Being your slave, what should I do but tend
Upon the hours and times of your desire?

(in reply to Theo79)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Help: GF and D/s - 10/25/2012 11:50:37 PM   
MAINEiacMISTRESS


Posts: 1180
Joined: 9/12/2012
Status: offline 		Why do you assume she's a submissive? Is it because she's FEMALE? (just because she'll let you roll her around in the bed, or even indulge in a little spank-&-tie doesn't necessarily make her A SUBMISSIVE) Yes, sounds like you really did AMBUSH her at dinner...after all she was rather "trapped" there with a gang of chauvanist males ("OMFG, IN THIS DAY AND AGE? REALLY?" Would be most women's first response). The fact that she didn't blister your dignity in front of your friends is a tribute to her self control. Perhaps she actually does love you after all, poor woman. Consider this time-out she's given you a penance for what you have done, and be thankful she didn't dump your ass.

(in reply to AthenaSurrenders)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Help: GF and D/s - 10/25/2012 11:53:56 PM   
absolutchocolat


Posts: 1392
Status: offline 		echoing the other replies here, you should stop beating around the bush and tell her what you're into. the longer you wait, the more likely the possibility that she'll feel lead on. you're taking the ability to choose away from her by hiding this part of yourself. in this lifestyle, honesty is always the best policy and communication is key.

(in reply to MAINEiacMISTRESS)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Help: GF and D/s - 10/26/2012 12:36:28 AM   
SailingBum


Posts: 3225
Joined: 12/10/2007
From: Sailin the stormy sea
Status: offline 		I call it the round peg square hole syndrome

BadOne

_____________________________

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According to SwithNSpanky
We are all so very lucky to have you with us to impart your great wisdom.

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RE: Help: GF and D/s - 10/26/2012 1:17:27 AM   
UllrsIshtar


Posts: 3693
Joined: 7/28/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Theo79

There's some submissiveness in her, in the bedroom at least, and I think there must be a way to bring it out of her and make this work, even if I have to wait a lot.



There mustn't be some way to bring it out of her.

What you have here is a girl who is so not submissive that she finds the idea silly, and from what you've said, probably a little offensive. (As in, she finds the third person speak and male-Dom, femsub 1950 type of dynamic to be offensive to women in a feministic sense.)

What there MUST be, however, is you entering this relationship accepting her for who she is, and you trying to adapt YOURself to her, to the extend that you want to be with her.

You're the one that's entering into a relationship with false pretenses and the goal of changing you partner to suit your needs. Do you have any idea of how low, and selfish a thing that is.... and that it speaks completely contrary to love btw... you don't love her, you love yourself, your fantasy and the IDEA you concocted of her trying to fit her into what YOU want.

She on the other hand hasn't changed, isn't seeking you to change, and want you to remain exactly the person you PRETENDED to be when she first fell in love with you.

You've deceived her, grossly, because apparently that person that she fell in love with doesn't exist... and now, instead of you wanting to be that person for her, because you love her and want to give her what she loves about you... you instead want to change yourself to somebody different, and FORCE her along with you.

How the fuck do you exactly dare to claim to love this girl???

Do you have any concept that love isn't this self-absobed, deceiving, force driven thing that you've made it out to be?
How exactly do you sacrifice for her, through your "love" to match the sacrifices you're asking her to make for you?

If you truly love her, and truly want to be with her, you need to be the man she fell for... you need to make yourself vanilla... not try to force her to be kinky to suit your selfish dick driven needs.


< Message edited by UllrsIshtar -- 10/26/2012 1:23:28 AM >

_____________________________

I can be your whore
I am the dirt you created
I am your sinner
And your whore
But let me tell you something baby
You love me for everything you hate me for

(in reply to Theo79)
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RE: Help: GF and D/s - 10/26/2012 2:16:40 AM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline 		"Love" is a reason. It's not enough of a reason for this just as Ishatr tried to point out.

By way of contrast, Carol and I were vanilla married when we ran into this. Yet now she obeys me in all things. There are some marked differences though. For starters, I prefer to lead and she prefers to defer... In life in general. Going M/s just plain fit us. Secondly, there was never any question nor is there now in whether or not I want HER. Carol could return the collar today and while sure, there would be some adjustment period, I would still see her as the most wonderful woman in the world and I'd still be devoutly grateful that she wants to be my life partner in any sense whatsoever. If she got hirt by lightning and suddenly developed a dominant streak that needed expression I'd be on my knees in a heartbeat. She knows all of that to be true like she knows the sun will rise tomorrow.

You just gotta figure that all.that figures strongly in her willingness to transform herself onto my possession.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to Theo79)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Help: GF and D/s - 10/26/2012 7:43:47 AM   
punisher440


Posts: 4122
Joined: 4/10/2011
Status: offline 		FR
OP,not everyone involved in WIITWD uses that 3rd person way of talking and in fact,a good many find it extremely irritating.I also agree that you ambushed her and she has every right to be upset.I think you do owe her an apology when you do get the chance for that talk.You really need to look inside yourself before the talk and ask what you can live with and without in a relationship.Then be honest with yourself and with her when you do get the chance to discuss things with her.If you feel you can enjoy what you have had with her in the past and maybe enjoy going a little deeper with her,then enjoy what you have.Do not let the relationships your friends have influence your relationship...do what pleases you and the one you are involved with.

< Message edited by punisher440 -- 10/26/2012 8:08:44 AM >

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RE: Help: GF and D/s - 10/26/2012 9:25:40 AM   
chatterbox24


Posts: 2182
Joined: 1/22/2012
Status: offline 		Im pretty sure that turned her off to the tilt. Probably felt like she entered the "stepford wifes" The fact she found it laughable is a big indicator to me, she aint into it, chances are never gonna be into it. If I was to make a bet, she felt slimey, a bit shocked, and felt a change in the way she felt about you. IM so sorry to say that, but based on her reactions....doesnt look good.
Now I imagine she feels she doesnt know who you really are.
She doesnt sound naturally submissive to me, finds it brainless most likely and offensive. I never identified with it ever until I in my mid 40's. I never understood it, and myself found the women weak. WHich I dont believe all that now but that is how I felt.

_____________________________

I am like a box of chocolates, you never know what variety you are going to get on any given day.

My crazy smells like jasmine, cloves and cat nip.

(in reply to punisher440)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Help: GF and D/s - 10/26/2012 9:55:49 AM   
MAINEiacMISTRESS


Posts: 1180
Joined: 9/12/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar

quote:

ORIGINAL: Theo79

There's some submissiveness in her, in the bedroom at least, and I think there must be a way to bring it out of her and make this work, even if I have to wait a lot.



There mustn't be some way to bring it out of her.

What you have here is a girl who is so not submissive that she finds the idea silly, and from what you've said, probably a little offensive. (As in, she finds the third person speak and male-Dom, femsub 1950 type of dynamic to be offensive to women in a feministic sense.)

What there MUST be, however, is you entering this relationship accepting her for who she is, and you trying to adapt YOURself to her, to the extend that you want to be with her.

You're the one that's entering into a relationship with false pretenses and the goal of changing you partner to suit your needs. Do you have any idea of how low, and selfish a thing that is.... and that it speaks completely contrary to love btw... you don't love her, you love yourself, your fantasy and the IDEA you concocted of her trying to fit her into what YOU want.

She on the other hand hasn't changed, isn't seeking you to change, and want you to remain exactly the person you PRETENDED to be when she first fell in love with you.

You've deceived her, grossly, because apparently that person that she fell in love with doesn't exist... and now, instead of you wanting to be that person for her, because you love her and want to give her what she loves about you... you instead want to change yourself to somebody different, and FORCE her along with you.

How the fuck do you exactly dare to claim to love this girl???

Do you have any concept that love isn't this self-absobed, deceiving, force driven thing that you've made it out to be?
How exactly do you sacrifice for her, through your "love" to match the sacrifices you're asking her to make for you?

If you truly love her, and truly want to be with her, you need to be the man she fell for... you need to make yourself vanilla... not try to force her to be kinky to suit your selfish dick driven needs.


EXXXXXXXXACTLY!

(in reply to UllrsIshtar)
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RE: Help: GF and D/s - 10/26/2012 10:19:04 AM   
ClassAct2006


Posts: 318
Joined: 4/12/2006
Status: offline 		It is very difficult. For all its faults it is what the 50 Shades books are really about - dom man with girl who isn't sub.
I have been sub since I was very very young and never had any relationships. If I have ever tried anything with a vanilla man it's been like a joke almost and not even sexy. I am made as I am.

May be she needs to seem women like I am - very successful professional women earning a lot of money with a career, who pay people to clear up after them, who are feminists but in their personal relationship with the man whom they love they are a D/s couple. However even if this were presented to her I fear that she is either made to find an erotic charge in this or not. It is like a gay man trying to date a woman - never works. However it may be that you love her and you can get enough of what you need from this and even marry her, have children with her and it won't matter. Sex is not the entirety of our lives. It is a part.

(in reply to MAINEiacMISTRESS)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Help: GF and D/s - 10/26/2012 10:34:18 AM   
chatterbox24


Posts: 2182
Joined: 1/22/2012
Status: offline 		50 shades is merely a fantasy book, but it does give one good message. A non submissive, and a dom change bits of each other to suit each other because thats what you do when you truly love each other, when its mutual, and you truly want happiness for your partner. Its that love which is the motivation and I think that is what defines true love. Until it is actually experienced, it is very difficult for anyone to know what the pure definition is. So difficult, these kind of situations.


_____________________________

I am like a box of chocolates, you never know what variety you are going to get on any given day.

My crazy smells like jasmine, cloves and cat nip.

(in reply to ClassAct2006)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Help: GF and D/s - 10/26/2012 10:41:49 AM   
ClassAct2006


Posts: 318
Joined: 4/12/2006
Status: offline 		The trouble is you think love will conquer all when the brain chemicals are raging in the first 1 - 3 years but then gay man with female wife or sub like I am with man who is vanilla but trying to accommodate you, doesn't then always quite work out.

Someone can try to spank me or take charge although they often start laughing when trying to do it if they aren't really dom, rather than its naturally flowing, but I cannot see how you can sustain it over time if it's not your inclination which is why it can seem like coming home for me to be with a naturally inherently dominant man who has felt dom since he was as young as I felt sub and never been any different.

quote:

ORIGINAL: chatterbox24

50 shades is merely a fantasy book, but it does give one good message. A non submissive, and a dom change bits of each other to suit each other because thats what you do when you truly love each other, when its mutual, and you truly want happiness for your partner. Its that love which is the motivation and I think that is what defines true love. Until it is actually experienced, it is very difficult for anyone to know what the pure definition is. So difficult, these kind of situations.



(in reply to chatterbox24)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Help: GF and D/s - 10/26/2012 11:08:22 AM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		When I hear people speak in third person I just roll my eyes and then laugh my head off. I think it's hilarious. I would look at them as geeks, kinda like the people who go to renfests and play dungeons and dragons. Yeah, I would have been turned off too and thought your friends to be more than a little weird.


_____________________________

Nothing has changed
Everything has changed

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Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Help: GF and D/s - 10/26/2012 11:08:24 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		Dude, this is going to sound harsh, but please take it in the spirit that it was intended.

There are two options here. You either love her for the person that she is or you love the person that you are trying to turn her into. What you are doing with this girl is classic bait and switch. You pretended to be the vanilla guy who really is the kinky guy so that once you are already involved, you'll persuade her to be what you want her to be. If that were Me, I'd resent you for it.

Far too often, there are threads here about how to *make* someone be kinky or interested in power exchange. Why is it always the vanilla person who should change? You lured her in by being vanilla. Why shouldn't it be you who is the person who should change? Is there some kind of unwritten credo that only the kinky folks are the people who are allowed to be themselves?

You tested the waters. She doesn't want to swim in your tide. In My opinion, you have a decision to make.


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to ClassAct2006)
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