RE: Racial Prejudice in America Getting Worse

RE: Racial Prejudice in America Getting Worse (Full Version)

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Lucylastic -> RE: Racial Prejudice in America Getting Worse (10/28/2012 6:14:17 AM)
quote: Plus, you have a whole political party devoted to encouraging racial, ethnic, and class divisions for their power. probably the truest thing you have ever said... but I dont think you get who is who.

vincentML -> RE: Racial Prejudice in America Getting Worse (10/28/2012 9:02:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ElChupa I thought Dear Leader was supposed to be the guy that magically made everybody love everybody else? One of the big problems is that we have whole classes of people born into thinking they are victims and they stay and act that way their whole lives. Plus, you have a whole political party devoted to encouraging racial, ethnic, and class divisions for their power. Nobody ever made that claim about universal love. You really oughta stop smoking that shit, Elsucka. We also have a whole class of people who think they are privileged by their skin color. Don't you agree? Of course you do, or else you are oblivious to our history.

absolutchocolat -> RE: Racial Prejudice in America Getting Worse (10/28/2012 9:20:36 AM)
FR i don't think racial prejudice has gotten worse. i think it has been ingrained in america's social fabric for a long time, and the election of a black president simply brought it back to the surface.

Moonhead -> RE: Racial Prejudice in America Getting Worse (10/28/2012 9:30:37 AM)
Particularly as a President elect from the liberal, freeloady, sense of entitlement party...

graceadieu -> RE: Racial Prejudice in America Getting Worse (10/28/2012 11:17:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: atursvcMaam quote: I think the latter. I know I've talked to people who intellectually believe everyone is and should be equal but still have a hard time shaking off that last little bit of gut-level unease about people that are different from them. An ex of mine, a white woman, confessed to me once that if she was alone at night and saw a black man she'd get scared. She knew it was BS and felt guilty about it, but couldn't manage to get rid of it. What I found REALLY interesting was that Republicans were apparently more likely to say racist things than have racist feelings. If you want to be fair and reasonable about that "unease" wouldn't she be a bit uneasy about any man that she did not know when she was alone at night? I am a great believer in 18 inches of pesonal space. A female who approaches without invitation is not to be trusted, and all sorts of paranoid nonsense. I realize that it is paranoid. I don't trust or welcome much of anyone. It is not a race thing. It is an earned thing. Sure, but I meant she felt more nervous about a black man than a white man. Intellectually she didn't believe that black men were more likely to be rapists or whatever, but there was still some cultural conditioning in the back of her head that said black men = violent.

graceadieu -> RE: Racial Prejudice in America Getting Worse (10/28/2012 11:22:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Yachtie So now we have Obama. Rs do not like his politics and the Ds have labeled Rs raciss because, as we all know, the only reason to dislike Obama is his race. Can't be anything else. Surely couldn't be his politics. How could it be? Even Samuel L. Jackson said he voted for Obama due to his being black. It's quite apparent, isn't it?, that Obama was elected due to his race and not his politics. It was about breaking the glass ceiling. This is what the Ds scream from the rooftops. Alan Keyes could have broken it too. But of course it wasn't about his race but his politics. Of course some of the right-wing dislike of Obama is just about his center-left politics. That's without a doubt true. If he were white there would still be plenty of dissent against his positions and dislike of him personally. Clinton went through the same. (Edit: And to be fair, Bush went through the same from the Democrats.) But the birther stuff? The "secret Muslim terrorist Nazi communist" stuff? The death threats and talk of a "second-amendment solution" if he's re-elected? That's about him being black.

graceadieu -> RE: Racial Prejudice in America Getting Worse (10/28/2012 11:24:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead Particularly as a President elect from the liberal, freeloady, sense of entitlement party... I think you got a little mixed up there! I'm sure meant to say "a president NOT elected from the conservative, freeloady, sense of entitlement party..." [:D]

Aylee -> RE: Racial Prejudice in America Getting Worse (10/28/2012 11:26:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri The goals are race-based, but the improvement goals are higher for Hispanics and Blacks than they are for Whites (there was no data showing where Asian students were in 2011-12). Additionally, the testing standards, are the same for all students. It's achievement goals that are being set, and demonstrate the different starting points. So all blacks and hispanics have worse starting points? They are naturally poorer or live in worse situations? While they may be realistic, I dislike the suggestion that "we just don't expect as much from you."

vincentML -> RE: Racial Prejudice in America Getting Worse (10/28/2012 12:57:48 PM)
quote: So all blacks and hispanics have worse starting points? They are naturally poorer or live in worse situations? Necessarily, the goals are set against a group mean, or average. Whichever. Assume you have measurements that confirm that different groups have different starting points, and they did have such measurements. Expecting the same level of outcome for each group actually demands MORE of the groups beginning at the lower levels. They simply have more stairs to climb to reach the universal goal. Furthermore, looking at the Tampa news article you linked, it seems pretty clear that the goals were meant to be a measure of the school districts' achievements in delivering education to diverse populations. quote: While they may be realistic, I dislike the suggestion that "we just don't expect as much from you." Group goals are usually minimum standards. Additionally, schools provide avenues for greater excellence. Honors classes and Advance Placement classes for example. There is no suggestion to the kids that 'we don't expect as much from you.' Simply wrong. The children would probably have remained unaware of the goals if not for the outcry from adults.

Marini -> RE: Racial Prejudice in America Getting Worse (10/28/2012 1:10:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: absolutchocolat FR i don't think racial prejudice has gotten worse. i think it has been ingrained in america's social fabric for a long time, and the election of a black president simply brought it back to the surface. [sm=goodpost.gif] I agree, most of us {that are effected} know this, but this MIGHT be enlightening for those that don't.

Aylee -> RE: Racial Prejudice in America Getting Worse (10/28/2012 1:22:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: So all blacks and hispanics have worse starting points? They are naturally poorer or live in worse situations? Necessarily, the goals are set against a group mean, or average. Whichever. Assume you have measurements that confirm that different groups have different starting points, and they did have such measurements. Expecting the same level of outcome for each group actually demands MORE of the groups beginning at the lower levels. They simply have more stairs to climb to reach the universal goal. Furthermore, looking at the Tampa news article you linked, it seems pretty clear that the goals were meant to be a measure of the school districts' achievements in delivering education to diverse populations. quote: While they may be realistic, I dislike the suggestion that "we just don't expect as much from you." Group goals are usually minimum standards. Additionally, schools provide avenues for greater excellence. Honors classes and Advance Placement classes for example. There is no suggestion to the kids that 'we don't expect as much from you.' Simply wrong. The children would probably have remained unaware of the goals if not for the outcry from adults. Except that studies have shown that teachers ideas of how well students are going to do affect how well students do. If the teacher thinks that some students will be high achievers (because they are told so based on tests), their actions will help the students to become high achievers (regardless of what the tests actually said). So you have a self-fulfilling prophecy for permanent under-achievement.

thompsonx -> RE: Racial Prejudice in America Getting Worse (10/28/2012 2:16:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aylee How about Florida and their racially based education goals? http://tampa.cbslocal.com/2012/10/12/florida-passes-plan-for-racially-based-academic-goals/ "90 percent of Asian students, 88 percent of white students, 81 percent of Hispanics and 74 percent of black students to be reading at or above grade level. For math, the goals are 92 percent of Asian kids to be proficient, whites at 86 percent, Hispanics at 80 percent and blacks at 74 percent." So based on the color of skin or DNA, we just cannot expect some students to do as well? That would be your interpretation and not the explicit point of the article you cited. Your interpretation seems, on the face of it, to be racist and bigoted...please disabuse us of this perception.

kdsub -> RE: Racial Prejudice in America Getting Worse (10/28/2012 2:16:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Marini quote: ORIGINAL: absolutchocolat FR i don't think racial prejudice has gotten worse. i think it has been ingrained in america's social fabric for a long time, and the election of a black president simply brought it back to the surface. [sm=goodpost.gif] I agree, most of us {that are effected} know this, but this MIGHT be enlightening for those that don't. Marini I think you and absolutchocolat are using poor logic. Of course it is your opinion and I respect that but I do believe facts say you are mistaken. I do think that those who are prejudice have become more vocal but they do not represent reality. Obama would not have been elected four years ago without the majority support of so called white America and it would not be a close race today either. The fact is America no longer votes by, against, or for race. If Obama is not re-elected it will be because of differences in policy between him and the majority of the American people. And if he leaves office in defeat he will have served with distinction and will be recognized as an honest sincere President. Yes the first black president as well but he will be proof of the progress of American race relations… not the regression of them. Butch

thompsonx -> RE: Racial Prejudice in America Getting Worse (10/28/2012 2:20:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ElChupa I thought Dear Leader was supposed to be the guy that magically made everybody love everybody else? You are the only one I have heard who has made that characterization of obama...where exactly did you acquire such a moronic interpretation of the presidents position? quote: One of the big problems is that we have whole classes of people born into thinking they are victims and they stay and act that way their whole lives. Who exactly are these whole classes of people? quote: Plus, you have a whole political party devoted to encouraging racial, ethnic, and class divisions for their power. Which party would that be? Could you give us some specific examples?

YN -> RE: Racial Prejudice in America Getting Worse (10/28/2012 2:47:11 PM)
Much of what is seen as racial prejudice in the United States is class bias, the casto system the English aped in their colonies of the Spanish and Portuguese is still in effect. Even the Spanish words or their Anglicization are used in many cases. Overview in English - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casta quote: The system of castas, or genizaros was inspired by the assumption that the character and quality of people varied according to their birth, color, race and origin of ethnic types. The system of castas was more than socio-racial classification. It impacted every aspect of life, including economics and taxation. Both the Spanish colonial state and the Church expected more tax and tribute payments from those of lower socio-racial categories. Substitute "English" for "Spanish" though out the text and you see a accurate description of the past and present social and economic hierarchy in North America.

vincentML -> RE: Racial Prejudice in America Getting Worse (10/28/2012 4:22:35 PM)
quote: Except that studies have shown that teachers ideas of how well students are going to do affect how well students do. If the teacher thinks that some students will be high achievers (because they are told so based on tests), their actions will help the students to become high achievers (regardless of what the tests actually said). So you have a self-fulfilling prophecy for permanent under-achievement. There is validity in what you say. However, it was my experience well before the testing regime was established by No Child Left Behind, that teachers arrived to their first teaching assignments often with expectations already ingrained culturally and by their life experience. What is described in the news article is simply a pretest-post test process where previous group data is used as the pretest. The question that confronts the classroom teacher is: how do I know my test really measures progress? Suppose I give a test with ten items on word recognition after I have taught a lesson. Some kids get all ten right and some get only seven right. But the kids who scored ten correct may have already known eight of the words before I gave the lesson. Whereas the kids who scored seven right may have only had three of them in their vocabulary before the lesson. Clearly, the kids who had only three at the start did better than the kids who got all ten right. That is, they made greater progress. It is not a racial expectation issue. In the case of FCAT there was no other premeasure available unless you gave every kid a similar pre-test at the beginning of the school year. Then you have issues of student motivation, or lack thereof, giving a monster test that counts for naught[8\|] Strike that. They did have the 2011-2012 FCAT scores as a pretest. All the better having data as a base.

FMRFGOPGAL -> RE: Racial Prejudice in America Getting Worse (10/28/2012 4:46:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ElChupa I thought Dear Leader was supposed to be the guy that magically made everybody love everybody else? As proven above, some are incapable. Probably has more to do with reading comprehension than it does politics. I mean in as much as the president never what you're claiming. But don't let the truth get in your way.

FMRFGOPGAL -> RE: Racial Prejudice in America Getting Worse (10/28/2012 4:54:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cuckoldmepls Well what do you expect? Obama has made everything a racial issue and intervened numerous times in incidents that should have been handled by local law enforcement Since there are so many I won't ask you to name them all... but, how about 3? Not that I would ever doubt someone making specious allegations. It would be nice to have some idea WTF you are even talking about though.

absolutchocolat -> RE: Racial Prejudice in America Getting Worse (10/28/2012 4:55:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub Marini I think you and absolutchocolat are using poor logic. Of course it is your opinion and I respect that but I do believe facts say you are mistaken. I do think that those who are prejudice have become more vocal but they do not represent reality. Obama would not have been elected four years ago without the majority support of so called white America and it would not be a close race today either. The fact is America no longer votes by, against, or for race. If Obama is not re-elected it will be because of differences in policy between him and the majority of the American people. And if he leaves office in defeat he will have served with distinction and will be recognized as an honest sincere President. Yes the first black president as well but he will be proof of the progress of American race relations… not the regression of them. Butch as some of the threads here make it painfully clear (see the sununu thread, specifically), voting a black man into office didn't change the racist attitudes of some people. at no point did i say that no progress in race relations have been made. that would be silly. however, to pretend that racism somehow doesn't exist because white people voted for him is absolutely false. racism IS reality and has been reality for a long time. so, you can believe the "post-racial america" myth if you'd like.

vincentML -> RE: Racial Prejudice in America Getting Worse (10/28/2012 5:04:16 PM)
quote: Much of what is seen as racial prejudice in the United States is class bias, the casto system the English aped in their colonies of the Spanish and Portuguese is still in effect. Even the Spanish words or their Anglicization are used in many cases. Well no shit, Dick Tracy.[8\|] Of course it is class bias. Race, language, accent, education, dress, etc are all identifyers of status in a caste system. The issue with racial bias is that while one can change his accent and gain an education, he cannot change the color of his skin. That is what makes racial prejudice so insidious. But you knew that, right?

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