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RE: Racial Prejudice in America Getting Worse - 10/28/2012 5:05:26 PM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
The goals are race-based, but the improvement goals are higher for Hispanics and Blacks than they are for Whites (there was no data showing where Asian students were in 2011-12). Additionally, the testing standards, are the same for all students. It's achievement goals that are being set, and demonstrate the different starting points.

So all blacks and hispanics have worse starting points? They are naturally poorer or live in worse situations?
While they may be realistic, I dislike the suggestion that "we just don't expect as much from you."


I think you're mistaking the "passing" standard for the %-age of students that pass. Very different things. The passing standard is getting a "3" on the test. That standard is for every ethnic group. The goals are for the # of students that gets a "3" or better. In 2011-2012, only 38% of black students got a "3" or better. The goal is for more students to get a "3" or better. The 74% goal is not the average score they want blacks to score.

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Profile   Post #: 61
RE: Racial Prejudice in America Getting Worse - 10/28/2012 5:18:39 PM   
DaddySatyr


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From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
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quote:

ORIGINAL: absolutchocolat
as some of the threads here make it painfully clear (see the sununu thread, specifically), voting a black man into office didn't change the racist attitudes of some people. at no point did i say that no progress in race relations have been made. that would be silly. however, to pretend that racism somehow doesn't exist because white people voted for him is absolutely false. racism IS reality and has been reality for a long time. so, you can believe the "post-racial america" myth if you'd like.


You are soooo right. I get called "Cracker", "Poor White Trash" and "Ign'ant white muthuh fuckuh" all the time, now.

I live in a very non-white neighborhood and there isn't a day when I don't hear some epithet launched at me (To be fair; I hear a lot of "gringo" and "cabron blanco", also).

The night Ofailure got elected, a lady I didn't know banged on my door and yelled: "That's right, muthuh fuckuh! It's our turn, now!". Funny, that same person told me they have no intention of voting, at all, this time around. It seems she hasn't worked in 6 years and had to give two of her children to their father because she couldn't afford to feed all of them on what the government is giving her.

It always amazes me that any discussion of racism pre-supposes that it is only perpetrated by white people.

Five years ago, I was looking for work. I applied to a local drug store and was told that I wouldn't be getting an interview because I didn't "reflect the neighborhood". When I informed the ignorant fuck that I lived three blocks away, I was told it was because I didn't speak Spanish (It's illegal to refuse to hire someone because they don't speak English, though). At that point, I dropped into Spanish and spoke with the cashier who knew me and the dumb fuck manager that refused to give me an interview walked away, mumbling.

I admit that I don't look like the rest of the people in my neighborhood but to say that I couldn't have a job because of that? Gee, if I'd have been black or hispanic and the manager had been white, the PPLs would have been all up in arms.



Peace and comfort,



Michael

< Message edited by DaddySatyr -- 10/28/2012 5:19:47 PM >

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RE: Racial Prejudice in America Getting Worse - 10/28/2012 5:23:25 PM   
absolutchocolat


Posts: 1392
Status: offline 		racial prejudice certainly swings both ways, no one has a monopoly on being ignorant.

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Profile   Post #: 63
RE: Racial Prejudice in America Getting Worse - 10/28/2012 5:25:18 PM   
FMRFGOPGAL


Posts: 763
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

quote:

ORIGINAL: absolutchocolat
as some of the threads here make it painfully clear (see the sununu thread, specifically), voting a black man into office didn't change the racist attitudes of some people. at no point did i say that no progress in race relations have been made. that would be silly. however, to pretend that racism somehow doesn't exist because white people voted for him is absolutely false. racism IS reality and has been reality for a long time. so, you can believe the "post-racial america" myth if you'd like.


You are soooo right. I get called "Cracker", "Poor White Trash" and "Ign'ant white muthuh fuckuh" all the time, now.

I live in a very non-white neighborhood and there isn't a day when I don't hear some epithet launched at me (To be fair; I hear a lot of "gringo" and "cabron blanco", also).



There are two sides to every story. What is it you say to them to upset the neighbors so much?

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Profile   Post #: 64
RE: Racial Prejudice in America Getting Worse - 10/28/2012 5:27:24 PM   
kdsub


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quote:

to pretend that racism somehow doesn't exist because white people voted for him is absolutely false


I never said racism does not exist...The thread header is saying prejudice is getting worse and that is what I don't agree with. The Presidential election and competitive campaign 4 years later is proof that the header statement is simply not true.

Racists will not vote for a black president and Obama will have no trouble getting votes from white America.

I believe the poll is flawed in at least one question it asked and the increase of a few percent is well within the possibility of error.

The poll and results are unnecessarily inflammatory and published for the sake of money and circulation...In my opinion.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 10/28/2012 5:28:14 PM >

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RE: Racial Prejudice in America Getting Worse - 10/28/2012 5:48:27 PM   
absolutchocolat


Posts: 1392
Status: offline 		that's fine, i was just replying to you saying that my statement somehow "lacked logic". polls are usually used in news stories to get readers to believe things, and yes, are often misleading. however, your statement

quote:

The fact is America no longer votes by, against, or for race.


doesn't quite hold water. and you've yet to explain how my argument lacks logic with any facts.

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Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Racial Prejudice in America Getting Worse - 10/28/2012 5:58:51 PM   
DaddySatyr


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From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline 		Butch, unless my memory fails (and it does from time-to-time), I think your statement might be inaccurate.

I believe that Ofailure garnered 96% of the registered black vote in 2008? If there were more than 4% registered black voters that were registered republican, the results would suggest that those people crossed party lines for a reason.

Now, I understand there's a couple of "if"s and a "might" in there but, I really can't be arsed to look up numbers, right now.

I know that I spoke to people in '08 that told me that they were voting for Barry because: "He knows what it is to be a black man in America". While it's anecdotal, those statements surely suggest that those people were voting for a race.



Peace and comfort,



Michael

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Profile   Post #: 67
RE: Racial Prejudice in America Getting Worse - 10/28/2012 6:19:02 PM   
JstAnotherSub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FMRFGOPGAL

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

quote:

ORIGINAL: absolutchocolat
as some of the threads here make it painfully clear (see the sununu thread, specifically), voting a black man into office didn't change the racist attitudes of some people. at no point did i say that no progress in race relations have been made. that would be silly. however, to pretend that racism somehow doesn't exist because white people voted for him is absolutely false. racism IS reality and has been reality for a long time. so, you can believe the "post-racial america" myth if you'd like.


You are soooo right. I get called "Cracker", "Poor White Trash" and "Ign'ant white muthuh fuckuh" all the time, now.

I live in a very non-white neighborhood and there isn't a day when I don't hear some epithet launched at me (To be fair; I hear a lot of "gringo" and "cabron blanco", also).



There are two sides to every story. What is it you say to them to upset the neighbors so much?

That would indicate that black folks who get called nigger have done something to "deserve" it.

Kind of silly, IMHO.

Racists are racists, no matter the color of their skin.


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Profile   Post #: 68
RE: Racial Prejudice in America Getting Worse - 10/28/2012 6:19:56 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		General reply:


Blacks have always voted for the democratic candidte....



But as soon as that candidate is black......they`re now racially biased.......



Only a complete ass-hole-douche-bag-cock-sucker-bigot  what say that......

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 10/28/2012 6:20:42 PM >

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RE: Racial Prejudice in America Getting Worse - 10/28/2012 6:25:21 PM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FMRFGOPGAL

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

quote:

ORIGINAL: absolutchocolat
as some of the threads here make it painfully clear (see the sununu thread, specifically), voting a black man into office didn't change the racist attitudes of some people. at no point did i say that no progress in race relations have been made. that would be silly. however, to pretend that racism somehow doesn't exist because white people voted for him is absolutely false. racism IS reality and has been reality for a long time. so, you can believe the "post-racial america" myth if you'd like.


You are soooo right. I get called "Cracker", "Poor White Trash" and "Ign'ant white muthuh fuckuh" all the time, now.

I live in a very non-white neighborhood and there isn't a day when I don't hear some epithet launched at me (To be fair; I hear a lot of "gringo" and "cabron blanco", also).



There are two sides to every story. What is it you say to them to upset the neighbors so much?

I've had "Honkey MotherFucker", "Fuckin' Cracker" and "Fuckin' Anglo Maricon" screamed at me by total strangers on the street when I worked in miami.

One doesn't have to be white to be racist.

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RE: Racial Prejudice in America Getting Worse - 10/28/2012 8:03:19 PM   
kdsub


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quote:

voting for a race


Maybe...I guess i was only thinking of those accused of racism

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 10/28/2012 8:04:46 PM >

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I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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Profile   Post #: 71
RE: Racial Prejudice in America Getting Worse - 10/28/2012 8:10:23 PM   
Aylee


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FMRFGOPGAL

quote:

ORIGINAL: cuckoldmepls

Well what do you expect? Obama has made everything a racial issue and intervened numerous times in incidents that should have been handled by local law enforcement


Since there are so many I won't ask you to name them all... but, how about 3?
   Not that I would ever doubt someone making specious allegations. It would be nice to have some idea WTF you are even talking about though.



Charles Ogletree
Shirley Sherrod
Cornel West
Treyvon Martin
Robert L. Johnson

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RE: Racial Prejudice in America Getting Worse - 10/28/2012 8:19:58 PM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

Robert L. Johnson


In January 2008, Johnson became the target of criticism for remarks he made to supporters of Hillary Clinton about Barack Obama. Johnson said, "As an African-American, I'm frankly insulted that the Obama campaign would imply that we are so stupid that we would think Bill and Hillary Clinton, who have been deeply and emotionally involved in black issues when Barack Obama was doing something in the neighborhood that I won't say what he was doing, [but] he said it in his book."[8] This statement was widely interpreted as a criticism of Obama's acknowledged use of marijuana and cocaine in his youth. The Clinton campaign denied this, submitting that the comments were referring to Obama's work as a community organizer.[9] In subsequent days, Johnson was roundly criticized for his comments as hypocritical given the prodigious glorification of drug use and sale by artists prominently featured on BET.[10]

On January 17, 2008, Johnson sent Obama the following apology: "I'm writing to apologize to you and your family personally for the un-called-for comments I made at a recent Clinton event. In my zeal to support Senator Clinton, I made some very inappropriate remarks for which I am truly sorry. I hope that you will accept this apology. Good luck on the campaign trail."[11]

On April 14, 2008, Johnson made comments to the effect that Obama would not be the Democratic Party's leading candidate if he were not black, in support of the prior statement made by Geraldine Ferraro. He also went on to say "I make a joke about Obama doing drugs (and it's) 'Oh my God, a black man tearing down another black man.' "[12]

You are stretching severely on this one.

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RE: Racial Prejudice in America Getting Worse - 10/28/2012 8:25:39 PM   
Aylee


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
The goals are race-based, but the improvement goals are higher for Hispanics and Blacks than they are for Whites (there was no data showing where Asian students were in 2011-12). Additionally, the testing standards, are the same for all students. It's achievement goals that are being set, and demonstrate the different starting points.

So all blacks and hispanics have worse starting points? They are naturally poorer or live in worse situations?
While they may be realistic, I dislike the suggestion that "we just don't expect as much from you."


I think you're mistaking the "passing" standard for the %-age of students that pass. Very different things. The passing standard is getting a "3" on the test. That standard is for every ethnic group. The goals are for the # of students that gets a "3" or better. In 2011-2012, only 38% of black students got a "3" or better. The goal is for more students to get a "3" or better. The 74% goal is not the average score they want blacks to score.


No. I understand exactly what they are doing.

First it starts with K-12 tests. Then colleges have to take those into account and change their admissions policies and grading/testing policies.. Then workplaces do. A different standard for passing must be employed so that we have a certain percentage of 'minorities.' We don't want equality of opportunity. We want equality of outcome.

We will change the passing grade so that we have the correct percentage passing.

It is wrong. It is racist. I dislike it.

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I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

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RE: Racial Prejudice in America Getting Worse - 10/28/2012 8:30:47 PM   
xXsoumisXx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
The goals are race-based, but the improvement goals are higher for Hispanics and Blacks than they are for Whites (there was no data showing where Asian students were in 2011-12). Additionally, the testing standards, are the same for all students. It's achievement goals that are being set, and demonstrate the different starting points.

So all blacks and hispanics have worse starting points? They are naturally poorer or live in worse situations?
While they may be realistic, I dislike the suggestion that "we just don't expect as much from you."


I think you're mistaking the "passing" standard for the %-age of students that pass. Very different things. The passing standard is getting a "3" on the test. That standard is for every ethnic group. The goals are for the # of students that gets a "3" or better. In 2011-2012, only 38% of black students got a "3" or better. The goal is for more students to get a "3" or better. The 74% goal is not the average score they want blacks to score.


No. I understand exactly what they are doing.

First it starts with K-12 tests. Then colleges have to take those into account and change their admissions policies and grading/testing policies.. Then workplaces do. A different standard for passing must be employed so that we have a certain percentage of 'minorities.' We don't want equality of opportunity. We want equality of outcome.

We will change the passing grade so that we have the correct percentage passing.

It is wrong. It is racist. I dislike it.

and it is a fact of life now. We, as educators, teach to the tests. that is all that is important. And race is a huge factor in these outcomes. Now, we just need a small percentage of improvement.. scores are not important as we have a very large percentage of enrollment 'minority". The more minorities enrolled in a school.. the more lax the standards. I wonder, if a school is 90% one race is it still a minority?
ETA: sometimes the reason for the different standards is all about language. for Hispanic as well as Black/African American. If the home language is not standard English, the child has some catching up to do, doesn't matter if it is Spanish or Slang, or Russian, or Chinese. the effect on the child is the same.
In fact.. if it is another language it is better, than if it is badly spoken English. There are special programs for ESL, or English as Second Language Learners. Not so much if Slang is the home language.

< Message edited by xXsoumisXx -- 10/28/2012 8:37:54 PM >

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RE: Racial Prejudice in America Getting Worse - 10/28/2012 8:32:53 PM   
Aylee


Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

Robert L. Johnson


In January 2008, Johnson became the target of criticism for remarks he made to supporters of Hillary Clinton about Barack Obama. Johnson said, "As an African-American, I'm frankly insulted that the Obama campaign would imply that we are so stupid that we would think Bill and Hillary Clinton, who have been deeply and emotionally involved in black issues when Barack Obama was doing something in the neighborhood that I won't say what he was doing, [but] he said it in his book."[8] This statement was widely interpreted as a criticism of Obama's acknowledged use of marijuana and cocaine in his youth. The Clinton campaign denied this, submitting that the comments were referring to Obama's work as a community organizer.[9] In subsequent days, Johnson was roundly criticized for his comments as hypocritical given the prodigious glorification of drug use and sale by artists prominently featured on BET.[10]

On January 17, 2008, Johnson sent Obama the following apology: "I'm writing to apologize to you and your family personally for the un-called-for comments I made at a recent Clinton event. In my zeal to support Senator Clinton, I made some very inappropriate remarks for which I am truly sorry. I hope that you will accept this apology. Good luck on the campaign trail."[11]

On April 14, 2008, Johnson made comments to the effect that Obama would not be the Democratic Party's leading candidate if he were not black, in support of the prior statement made by Geraldine Ferraro. He also went on to say "I make a joke about Obama doing drugs (and it's) 'Oh my God, a black man tearing down another black man.' "[12]

You are stretching severely on this one.

Have you looked at what happened in 2011? The RLJ rule? The fact that Obama never met with country’s most prominent black businessman until he finagled a meeting? That he has been put off on alleviating black unemployment until his possible second term?

There is very much something racial going on.

Contrary to your belief, many of us would LOVE to see black culture on a positive upswing. Because the way things are working now, frankly sucks.


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Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

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RE: Racial Prejudice in America Getting Worse - 10/28/2012 8:38:49 PM   
Aylee


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

You are stretching severely on this one.


You can throw that one out if you want. She only asked for three and I gave five. I gave five fairly high profile examples.

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RE: Racial Prejudice in America Getting Worse - 10/28/2012 8:47:50 PM   
Aylee


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quote:

ORIGINAL: xXsoumisXx

and it is a fact of life now. We, as educators, teach to the tests. that is all that is important. And race is a huge factor in these outcomes. Now, we just need a small percentage of improvement.. scores are not important as we have a very large percentage of enrollment 'minority". The more minorities enrolled in a school.. the more lax the standards. I wonder, if a school is 90% one race is it still a minority?
ETA: sometimes the reason for the different standards is all about language. for Hispanic as well as Black/African American. If the home language is not standard English, the child has some catching up to do, doesn't matter if it is Spanish or Slang, or Russian, or Chinese. the effect on the child is the same.
In fact.. if it is another language it is better, than if it is badly spoken English. There are special programs for ESL, or English as Second Language Learners. Not so much if Slang is the home language.


There are a lot of things that can affect a child's performance. I disagree with codifying the idea that we should expect different levels of achievement based on melanin. The kids are in the school, receiving the same instruction, the expected outcome should be equal across the board. Anything else is wrong and contributes to the idea that biology is destiny.

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

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Profile   Post #: 78
RE: Racial Prejudice in America Getting Worse - 10/28/2012 8:48:24 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		So they had not met right away. Has all the white Presidents met with all the prominent white business owners? What did Obama have to do with what Johnson said? Did he twist it somehow? Make it into a racial issue? Push his own agenda?

As far as being the most prominent black businessman.. I tend to disagree.




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RE: Racial Prejudice in America Getting Worse - 10/28/2012 8:53:20 PM   
graceadieu


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From: Maryland
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


quote:

ORIGINAL: ElChupa

One of the big problems is that we have whole classes of people born into thinking they are victims and they stay and act that way their whole lives.


Who exactly are these whole classes of people?


The Religious Right, though of course that's not what he meant.

quote:

quote:

Plus, you have a whole political party devoted to encouraging racial, ethnic, and class divisions for their power.


Which party would that be? Could you give us some specific examples?


While, again, I know this isn't what he meant, the old Republican stand-bys of the "Southern Strategy", immigrant-bashing, and bashing of working-class Americans as lazy lay-about welfare queens does seem to do this.

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Profile   Post #: 80
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