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RE: Turns out, Planned Parenthood patients have the few... - 10/30/2012 8:15:15 PM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline 		These are all sound points Toy Of Rhamnusia. Sadly those who are against women having choices in this area, often adopt this position because their religion commands them to oppose abortion in all instances. IOW, the basis for their position is unverifiable (almost by definition, as religious belief cannot be verified empirically).

We can analyse their position logically. It is based on interpretations of the so-called Natural Law. In the Catholic interpretation, this 'Law" asserts that any 'artificial' interference in the so-called natural process of reproduction is 'un-natural' and therefore contrary to God's wishes and immoral. Even here the application of the principle is inconsistent - even using the "rythmn method" which is approved by the Catholic Church, can be seen as an external (knowledge-driven) interference in the natural process of reproduction.

The Natural Law itself doesn't stand up to rigourous scrutiny either. As commonly understood and as taught to me in Catholic school, it asserts that human life/nature and all life is driven by the instinct for self survival and the survival of the species.* Yet humans kill each other and themselves daily by the thousands, and millions of humans don't reproduce for a variety of reasons. Some humans are physiologically incapable of reproduction. Does this mean they don't have a 'human nature', that they are un-human in some way? Of course not.

It is commendable that you try to approach this issue in a structured logical fashion. But I would hate for you to be disappointed by the failure of the anti-choice people to respond in a similar fashion.


* There are other definitions of Natural Law. I am using the given one as it reflect the everyday understanding of the term, and it is used to underwrite the Catholic Church's position on reproduction.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 10/30/2012 8:16:56 PM >

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RE: Turns out, Planned Parenthood patients have the few... - 10/30/2012 10:34:42 PM   
ToyOfRhamnusia


Posts: 99
Joined: 8/4/2012
Status: offline 		No worries tweakabelle! Thanks for the nice words, though. I am a hard-cored warrior, and people who refuse to use or accept logic aren't getting anything from me, except maybe a role assignment as my target when the civil war breaks out....

Calling "human interference with God's/Nature's course" a "sin" means the end of all medical practice... And isn't preaching also some sort of interference with that course?

And how many millions of "bible-thumbers" are supporting the worst war-monger ever in US history? So killing is OK when it is not a fetus, but someone with a different belief? BS...

Those who base their moral values on something that isn't consistent at least with itself do not deserve any respect for their choice. They deserve to have their stupidity and ignorance exposed... There is no such thing as "integrity based on inconsistency".

And I know - they won't learn, because they have chosen to ignore facts when those facts contradict what people knew when their holy scriptures were dictated.

All wise men in politics throughout history have insisted that government and church cannot be intermingled - simply because religious beliefs and moral choices CANNOT form a consistent basis for any laws that are meant for a SOCIETY that respects freedom of religion and not only a specific religious congregation.

And, just for the record: none of this means that I think abortion is great, and that everyone should have one! It only means that I want the DECISION about this to rest where it should rest and must rest: with the affected individual, as confirmed by the UN Human Rights Declaration and all countries on this planet that have ratified that declaration, and that includes just about ell of them, except maybe a few very new ones. But with freedom comes responsibility, and responsibility must include ALL the consequences of one's choice. including the financial ones. It is not a human right to get free abortions paid for by tax-payers.

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RE: Turns out, Planned Parenthood patients have the few... - 10/30/2012 10:37:08 PM   
JanahX


Posts: 3443
Joined: 8/21/2010
Status: offline 		Toy - I love your posts. I dont think Ive ever typed that. Take a picture.

I often wonder ... if all these religious zealots that are pro-life, also think that the earth is 9000 years old? Because I dont think you can have it one way - and not another...

< Message edited by JanahX -- 10/30/2012 10:39:26 PM >

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RE: Turns out, Planned Parenthood patients have the few... - 10/31/2012 12:31:52 AM   
tweakabelle


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quote:

And how many millions of "bible-thumbers" are supporting the worst war-monger ever in US history? So killing is OK when it is not a fetus, but someone with a different belief? BS...


Yup. The hypocrisy is outrageous. Aborting an foetus is a crime they say. Yet slaughtering adults by the tens of thousands, or supporting belligerent aggressive Israel because it brings us all closer to "Armageddon" is somehow "Godly" and "moral"......! Or even forcing women to carry to term, then ignoring the needs of both mother and child post-natally, by categorically opposing universal healthcare, welfare or family planning services. I doubt anyone will ever find any logical consistency in those positions.

Who was it who said: "God spare me from your believers"?

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 10/31/2012 12:32:49 AM >

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RE: Turns out, Planned Parenthood patients have the few... - 10/31/2012 12:39:46 AM   
LonDom61


Posts: 196
Joined: 9/12/2007
Status: offline 		I think this is on topic. It relates to the question of why


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

It's amazing how so few women know how to not get pregnant without contraceptives. Maybe we should include this kind of information in our Health classes in grade school....


and later

You reply that the women who can't afford gyno care without PP, there is no access to pregnancy prevention contraception. My statement points out the fallacy that without PP, women can prevent themselves from getting pregnant.

Uh...

And those methods they should know...and the way they can prevent themselves from getting pregnant without contraceptives are, Desi?

Here are the ones I can think of:

1. Abstinence (the right wingers favorite solution...for other people; 100% effective when followed 100% of the time. Which 25%, maybe, of people do.)
2. Rhythm method (The name for people who use this one: Parents)
3. Put that thing somewhere else (They may not admit it, but the RWs like this pretty much too)

I may have missed one cuz I`m tired. But that`s about all the ways I can think of `without contraceptives`. Condoms are contraceptives.

Women who can`t afford gyno care don`t need PP to be aware of that list. They need it for the trickier stuff. To watch for things going wrong with their (not intelligently designed) plumbing, for instance.

Teach it in grade school? Did you mean that to be shocking? Teach our UM`s about sperm & std`s (not the birds n the bees)?

Well, maybe it is a bit shocking. But, when 7th grade kids (or maybe younger now) are having lipstick parties, etc....maybe it`s not such a bad idea. Just not àbstinence only`. That dog don`t hunt.

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RE: Turns out, Planned Parenthood patients have the few... - 10/31/2012 2:11:38 AM   
ToyOfRhamnusia


Posts: 99
Joined: 8/4/2012
Status: offline 		JananX - Picture taken. Thanks.

Belief is a tricky thing. It is generally ingrained in us through childhood conditioning, by us hearing something again and again, so that we become emotionally comfortable with it. We WILL become emotionally comfortable with ANYTHING we hear often enough. From there, it is easy to form a belief - it is like a trust. Once we believe in something because we are emotionally comfortable with it, it is very hard to accept knowledge that contradicts our belief, because it makes us uncomfortable. Instead, we tend to rationalize our belief! And that leads to even more rejection of reality and facts! It is an evil circle...

Answering your question, I think the most fanatic ones are the ones who have gone through this cycle of

belief -> contradiction -> rejection of facts -> rationalization of belief -> consolidation of belief -> new contradiction - and the screw takes another turn. And sooner or later, it will also include denial of evidence of evolution and thus of the Earth's age. These issues are even simple to reject, because they take scientific education in order to understand and interpret the evidence - so if you can subscribe to the general religious notion that "knowledge is evil" (remember Eva and the apple?), it is easy to discard as "heresy", even today, and particularly when you isolate yourself from those crowds who believe otherwise.



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RE: Turns out, Planned Parenthood patients have the few... - 10/31/2012 2:24:48 AM   
ToyOfRhamnusia


Posts: 99
Joined: 8/4/2012
Status: offline 		LonDom61 - this is indeed taught in grade 7 to 9 in many European countries. I still remember my biology teacher showing us porn magazines and explaining why they were fake, showing off to the reader, instead of the guy pleasing the woman... I learned in school back then why women have difficulty getting satisfaction from intercourse, because their orgasms take longer time and more foreplay, and how that often was a problem for the guy because premature ejaculation... We were taught in class how to use a condom - the teacher showed us on a dildo, and he also showed us how it easily can break if you are not careful with your nails....

Yes, and there were both girls and boys in the classes, and certainly no giggling or inappropriate jokes! The lessons were taken seriously. And all the way through high school, I never even heard about a girl under 19 getting pregnant or having an abortion. But we certainly were not abstinent!

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RE: Turns out, Planned Parenthood patients have the few... - 10/31/2012 3:19:27 AM   
LonDom61


Posts: 196
Joined: 9/12/2007
Status: offline 		Hi Toy

Thanks for the informative response. It was interesting. But it was your immediately prior post that interested me more.

A nice summary of how religious belief is formed and becomes impervious to reason. I`ve copied it for further study.

I had given up on this thread as a morass. Then I saw it on the scroll otos. Maybe I`ll come back (or check your log) for more such.

Bed time now though.

Regards,

LD

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RE: Turns out, Planned Parenthood patients have the few... - 10/31/2012 5:17:07 AM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LonDom61
I think this is on topic. It relates to the question of why
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
It's amazing how so few women know how to not get pregnant without contraceptives. Maybe we should include this kind of information in our Health classes in grade school....

and later
quote:

You reply that the women who can't afford gyno care without PP, there is no access to pregnancy prevention contraception. My statement points out the fallacy that without PP, women can prevent themselves from getting pregnant.

Uh...
And those methods they should know...and the way they can prevent themselves from getting pregnant without contraceptives are, Desi?
Here are the ones I can think of:
1. Abstinence (the right wingers favorite solution...for other people; 100% effective when followed 100% of the time. Which 25%, maybe, of people do.)
2. Rhythm method (The name for people who use this one: Parents)
3. Put that thing somewhere else (They may not admit it, but the RWs like this pretty much too)
I may have missed one cuz I`m tired. But that`s about all the ways I can think of `without contraceptives`. Condoms are contraceptives.
Women who can`t afford gyno care don`t need PP to be aware of that list. They need it for the trickier stuff. To watch for things going wrong with their (not intelligently designed) plumbing, for instance.
Teach it in grade school? Did you mean that to be shocking? Teach our UM`s about sperm & std`s (not the birds n the bees)?
Well, maybe it is a bit shocking. But, when 7th grade kids (or maybe younger now) are having lipstick parties, etc....maybe it`s not such a bad idea. Just not àbstinence only`. That dog don`t hunt.


First of all, lets not gloss over that having our 7th grade kids having lipstick parties, making it okay that they are doing that.

You have taken the position that I am against PP. There is only one issue I take up with PP. It revolves around abortions. It's not the performance of abortions that I oppose, either. It's the Federal funding issue. That's where I take issue. I do not oppose their performing low/no cost gynecological exams, or other health screenings.

I was out of high school before the big push for teaching sex ed. came in, so I'm not sure when that subject is opened up. And, having a kid that isn't quite in 7th grade (next year), I still don't know when that topic is taught. I am not against schools teaching our kids about sex. I am not opposed to teaching kids about the use of contraceptives, or the "other" forms of pregnancy prevention. I can honestly say that I don't really know what the "rhythm method" is, other than it seems that it isn't likely to be a good form of contraception (I heard the rhythm method = parents a long, long time ago).

Here is a listing of Birth Control Methods from the PP site:
    quote:

    Birth Control Implant (Implanon and Nexplanon)
    Birth Control Patch (Ortho Evra)
    Birth Control Pills
    Birth Control Shot (Depo-Provera)
    Birth Control Sponge (Today Sponge)
    Birth Control Vaginal Ring (NuvaRing)
    Breastfeeding as Birth Control
    Cervical Cap (FemCap)
    Condom
    Diaphragm
    Female Condom
    Fertility Awareness-Based Methods (FAMs)
    IUD
    Morning-After Pill (Emergency Contraception)
    Outercourse
    Spermicide
    Sterilization for Women
    Vasectomy
    Withdrawal (Pull Out Method)


"Outercourse" is your "Put that thing somewhere else" method. I do believe the "Rhythm Method" aligns with "FAM's" at PP. And, there is the "withdrawal" method, too. I even made the joke that if that's a service they provide, is that done by sending someone over to help you pull out?

PP should not be relied on to be the only teacher of contraception. And, contraception should be taught for STD prevention, too.


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What I support:

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RE: Turns out, Planned Parenthood patients have the few... - 10/31/2012 5:37:48 AM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ToyOfRhamnusia
The tricky issue here is that you CANNOT make compromises here without completely accepting that human rights are a peace of history. Sure, there is a price to pay for that protection of our rights, and that price is that we ACCEPT that no one but the woman herself has the final say in such a matter that involves HER body and no one else's body.
I certainly don't agree with abortion being a reasonable way of planning parenthood, but I do know that there are many situations where other means fail, despite all good intentions, and where a pregnancy constitutes a serious liability for the woman, maybe even a risk for her life.
And yes, then someone can be sloppy with the prevention and just misuse their rights and literally use abortion because they are ignorant or lazy. So be it - we cannot restrict another woman's rights because of someone being irresponsible. But we CAN make sure that the irresponsible party isn't encouraged to be irresponsible, by society (= the rest of us) accepting to pay the costs of her irresponsibility!
An irresponsible woman has no rights to expect anyone else to pay the costs of her choices...


Exactly.

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What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

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RE: Turns out, Planned Parenthood patients have the few... - 10/31/2012 8:48:45 AM   
farglebargle


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Status: offline 		Which, of course, has very little to do with insurance benefits.

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RE: Turns out, Planned Parenthood patients have the few... - 10/31/2012 2:35:31 PM   
kalikshama


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quote:

And my un-born child that was murdered by its "mother"? That sweet, innocent, helpless being that had not even had a chance to any wrong in this world? That was not endangering the poor excuse for a woman that was incubating it? Unimportant?


If only I had the time to find the post where you cast so many aspersions on this woman's character that it boggles the mind that you would have stuck your dick in her in the first place.

I hope that ever since that experience you have lived by this advice:

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

DS, it has been pointed out to you repeatedly that the time to make decisions about babies and pregnancies is before the foetus comes into being, not afterwards.

If you have a strong POV on this issue, by all means make it clear to your partner before you indulge yourself in the pleasures of making babies. But so many men refuse to do this because if their Neanderthal POVs were known to the women they're trying to bed, the women would drop them like lead balloons.

So, once again, here it is for you in very simple English: Make the decisions jointly before the sex happens, not afterwards. That way there won't be a disagreement about how the pregnancy proceeds. Stop trying to have it both ways - it doesn't wash with today's women. The days when men had everything their own way died out decades ago. And they are never ever returning. So get used to it.



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RE: Turns out, Planned Parenthood patients have the few... - 10/31/2012 6:52:51 PM   
ToyOfRhamnusia


Posts: 99
Joined: 8/4/2012
Status: offline 		LonDom61 - thanks for the nice words. The issue is a morass because everybody refuses to apply logic and reason to it. Instead, they apply their own moral values in an attempt to force those values on other people.

But that's truly disrespect for other people's rights... And it just ends up in absurd discussions and ridiculous disputes over details that really don't matter. But it is a great distraction! The-Powers-That-Be are more than happy about letting us fight over those details, so that we "do not pay attention to that man behind the curtain" who is systematically and relentlessly eliminating our freedoms.

Moral values are not and can not be anything but a PERSONAL choice.

Law, on the other side, must be built on PRINCIPLES that are self-consistent, easily verifiable, and generally acceptable as "always true".

"Pro-life" is neither self-consistent, easily verifiable, or generally agreeable. It hence CANNOT form the foundation of law, without violating fundamental legal principles, like our human rights. But it is an excellent set of moral values FOR ANY INDIVIDUAL that chooses to adopt them! I sympathize with the pro-life value system as a personal moral choice, but it is completely inadequate as foundation for law. Adopting its principles as law will result in all fertile women being permanently suspects for murder!!!! Who the hell wants to live in a society like that? NOT ME!!!! Those who truly want such permanent fear on all of us (we are some men who care for the women in our lives) have to be completely nuts - and I shall happily sacrifice some sharp ammo on making peace with them, so we can make the Earth inhabitable again...

And if a man wants a say on this? He'd better make good friends with the woman who carries a fetus that carries genes from HIS sperm... In fact, he has no proof that this is indeed the case... So, again, that crap about "the evil woman killing his sweet little fetus" is bogus. Legal BS.

This is NOT the time to strip women of their equal rights and recreate medieval conditions of slavery for them. That time will not come for the women in my life as long as I can use a gun. And even the slightest chipping away any of their personal rights will inevitably lead exactly to that - and to the same principles being applied also to males. Forced medication is ready to be applied, folks - and it WILL be the end of all freedom for the ordinary man and woman when we have no control over what kind of substances are injected into our bodies!

The churches are after POWER - as they have been since the invention of religion. And we don't have to be that stupid that we can't learn from history.

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RE: Turns out, Planned Parenthood patients have the few... - 10/31/2012 8:57:50 PM   
tweakabelle


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From: Sydney Australia
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quote:

"Pro-life" is neither self-consistent, easily verifiable, or generally agreeable. It hence CANNOT form the foundation of law, without violating fundamental legal principles, like our human rights. But it is an excellent set of moral values FOR ANY INDIVIDUAL that chooses to adopt them! I sympathize with the pro-life value system as a personal moral choice, but it is completely inadequate as foundation for law. Adopting its principles as law will result in all fertile women being permanently suspects for murder!!!! Who the hell wants to live in a society like that? NOT ME!!!!


Isn't this happening already in those States in the US that have adopted so-called "personhood" and so-called "negligent murder" legislation? In a recent thread on these outrageous laws, someone mentioned that in one State alone (IIRC, it may have been Georgia but please don't rely on that detail), about 40 women were already serving prison sentences after being convicted under these laws.

These laws are little more than codified misogyny. Such wretched laws do more than merely making a mockery of justice US-style, the completely negate any claim the US has to be a world leader in human rights and freedom.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 10/31/2012 8:59:52 PM >

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RE: Turns out, Planned Parenthood patients have the few... - 11/1/2012 4:24:48 AM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
quote:

"Pro-life" is neither self-consistent, easily verifiable, or generally agreeable. It hence CANNOT form the foundation of law, without violating fundamental legal principles, like our human rights. But it is an excellent set of moral values FOR ANY INDIVIDUAL that chooses to adopt them! I sympathize with the pro-life value system as a personal moral choice, but it is completely inadequate as foundation for law. Adopting its principles as law will result in all fertile women being permanently suspects for murder!!!! Who the hell wants to live in a society like that? NOT ME!!!!

Isn't this happening already in those States in the US that have adopted so-called "personhood" and so-called "negligent murder" legislation? In a recent thread on these outrageous laws, someone mentioned that in one State alone (IIRC, it may have been Georgia but please don't rely on that detail), about 40 women were already serving prison sentences after being convicted under these laws.
These laws are little more than codified misogyny. Such wretched laws do more than merely making a mockery of justice US-style, the completely negate any claim the US has to be a world leader in human rights and freedom.


Wasn't the point of those laws supposed to make punishments for killing a pregnant woman harsher?

_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

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Profile   Post #: 115
RE: Turns out, Planned Parenthood patients have the few... - 11/1/2012 7:08:10 AM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
quote:

"Pro-life" is neither self-consistent, easily verifiable, or generally agreeable. It hence CANNOT form the foundation of law, without violating fundamental legal principles, like our human rights. But it is an excellent set of moral values FOR ANY INDIVIDUAL that chooses to adopt them! I sympathize with the pro-life value system as a personal moral choice, but it is completely inadequate as foundation for law. Adopting its principles as law will result in all fertile women being permanently suspects for murder!!!! Who the hell wants to live in a society like that? NOT ME!!!!

Isn't this happening already in those States in the US that have adopted so-called "personhood" and so-called "negligent murder" legislation? In a recent thread on these outrageous laws, someone mentioned that in one State alone (IIRC, it may have been Georgia but please don't rely on that detail), about 40 women were already serving prison sentences after being convicted under these laws.
These laws are little more than codified misogyny. Such wretched laws do more than merely making a mockery of justice US-style, the completely negate any claim the US has to be a world leader in human rights and freedom.


Wasn't the point of those laws supposed to make punishments for killing a pregnant woman harsher?

Would you like to explain to me how locking up women who have the misfortune to miscarry achieves that goal please?

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RE: Turns out, Planned Parenthood patients have the few... - 11/1/2012 7:31:46 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
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quote:

Isn't this happening already in those States in the US that have adopted so-called "personhood" and so-called "negligent murder" legislation? In a recent thread on these outrageous laws, someone mentioned that in one State alone (IIRC, it may have been Georgia but please don't rely on that detail), about 40 women were already serving prison sentences after being convicted under these laws.


Those arent "personhood" laws. South Carolina was one state included. The law was to arrest women who used drugs during pregnancy and who refused drug used, regardless of the treatment. The law did not state these pregnancies were "persons" from conception.

< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 11/1/2012 7:32:18 AM >

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RE: Turns out, Planned Parenthood patients have the few... - 11/1/2012 9:14:30 AM   
ToyOfRhamnusia


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

Isn't this happening already in those States in the US that have adopted so-called "personhood" and so-called "negligent murder" legislation? In a recent thread on these outrageous laws, someone mentioned that in one State alone (IIRC, it may have been Georgia but please don't rely on that detail), about 40 women were already serving prison sentences after being convicted under these laws.


Those arent "personhood" laws. South Carolina was one state included. The law was to arrest women who used drugs during pregnancy and who refused drug used, regardless of the treatment. The law did not state these pregnancies were "persons" from conception.


Please remember that a "person" is not a live human being. It is a corporation, a piece of legal fiction, which is associated with a human being, through the birth certificate. That person is being managed by the live human being, like a business is managed by its board of directors or a trust by its trustee. So, of course, those laws cannot assign a person to a fetus, because the government does not yet have the papers confirming birth!!!!!

But the CONCEPT of making laws based on religious morality is certainly applied here, and, as I have pointed out, it is doomed to lead to inconsistencies and atrocities, because it is built on inconsistencies and disrespect for both logic and human rights.

It should not take a rocket scientist to figure out what the purpose is with such laws, and don't come and tell me it is to secure the freedom of Americans, because it will reveal nothing but stupidity and ignorance on the part of whoever said so...

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RE: Turns out, Planned Parenthood patients have the few... - 11/1/2012 9:24:25 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		I think you may have me confused. I could care less about most religiously based moral beliefs.

I do care about newborns who are born with fetal alcohol syndrome.. or addicted to crack or any other number of drugs. That was the intent of the laws I was speaking about. They had nothing to do with establishing when someone was a person.

Yet they were taken too far.... and allowed to become abusive.

< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 11/1/2012 9:25:39 AM >

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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to ToyOfRhamnusia)
Profile   Post #: 119
RE: Turns out, Planned Parenthood patients have the few... - 11/1/2012 11:15:53 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
quote:

"Pro-life" is neither self-consistent, easily verifiable, or generally agreeable. It hence CANNOT form the foundation of law, without violating fundamental legal principles, like our human rights. But it is an excellent set of moral values FOR ANY INDIVIDUAL that chooses to adopt them! I sympathize with the pro-life value system as a personal moral choice, but it is completely inadequate as foundation for law. Adopting its principles as law will result in all fertile women being permanently suspects for murder!!!! Who the hell wants to live in a society like that? NOT ME!!!!

Isn't this happening already in those States in the US that have adopted so-called "personhood" and so-called "negligent murder" legislation? In a recent thread on these outrageous laws, someone mentioned that in one State alone (IIRC, it may have been Georgia but please don't rely on that detail), about 40 women were already serving prison sentences after being convicted under these laws.
These laws are little more than codified misogyny. Such wretched laws do more than merely making a mockery of justice US-style, the completely negate any claim the US has to be a world leader in human rights and freedom.

Wasn't the point of those laws supposed to make punishments for killing a pregnant woman harsher?

Would you like to explain to me how locking up women who have the misfortune to miscarry achieves that goal please?


Have those laws been passed? I'm talking about "Laci" Laws.

_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to tweakabelle)
Profile   Post #: 120
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